Robbk

By the sound, they are DEFINITELY Chicago recordings. Are they STILL being covered up? (meaning that we have no access to find out who it really was? Or was the artist name NOT written on the acetate? Both cuts sound much like Johnny Pate's ABC productions from 1965-67, and the songwriting and instrumentation is clearly Chicago style. But, as I was fooled by "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" by The Combinations being produced and recorded in Atlanta, perhaps this is just a "Chicago Sound" immitator?

I've now heard those 2 cuts. Clearly those are Johnny Pate productions for ABC, just as was her release. The group behind her sounds like The Trends. Anyone know, for sure, who they were? Bob A?

I did see the acetates, and taped them for potential release in "From The Vaults". I don't know the names of any of the group members. But, Smokey produced their Motown cuts in 1962 and 1963. They were the same Versatones that recorded in 1966 for Ernest Burt's Magic City Records, after he bought Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone Studio and offices at 8912 Grand River. The Boss is someone with a very deep voice. Maybe Clarence Paul? Sylvester Potts? It was probably recorded in 1962, so Robert Bateman was likely gone already. So it can't be him.

Temptations - "A Tear From A Woman's Eyes" Originals - "Suspicion" Monitors - "Crying In The Night" Serenaders - "Tears, Nobody, and a Smile" Contours - "Baby, Hit and Run" Brenda Holloway - "Crying Time" Sammy Turner & Serenaders - "All I Have Left Are Memories" Kim Weston - "Any Girl In Love" Versatones - "Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde" Brenda Holloway - "Love Woke Me Up This Morning" Carolyn Crawford - "Until You Came Along" Marvelettes - "I Should Have Known Better" Tammie Terrell - "All I Do (Is Think About You" Little Stevie Wonder - "Lois" Patrice Holloway - "The Touch of Venus" Velvelettes - "Love Is Good" Kim Weston - "Build Up My Baby" Spinners - "We're Gonna Be More Than Friends"

Can anyone post a link to these 2 cuts, or an mP3. I'm a big fan of The Chicago sound, and don't remember ever hearing those. I bought her ABC single when it was out, and BOTH sides are among my all-time favourite cuts.

It's a legitimate Columbia Juke Box record, released in late 1960, probably a couple of months after the regular Columbia 45 issue, which, in turn, was leased and released a few months after the original Tamla release. I found my copy in 1961 or 1962, so, we know they are legitimate.

I thought that Hal Davis ran Motown's operations in the L.A. Jobete Music office, and that Marc gordon and Frank Wilson were just the main producers under him? I don't remember Frank Wilson having been the big boss. In any case, I'd be really surprised if the Frank Wilson that recorded on Soul Records and was married to Barbara Wilson was the F. Wilson on Up Records. Secondly, I'd be surprised to find that that Up Record was from L.A. If it IS, indeed, a California record I'd vote for a San Francisco Bay Area record. The font and label graphics style look more like a Bay Area record than L.A. I was in L.A. from 1965-72. I NEVER saw an UP Record there. Actually, it rings a bell for a label I did see in The Bay Area. I doubt that that F. Wilson was Frank Wilson, as the songs don't sound, in the slightest, like his writing, and the publishing company isn't one I've seen related to him. I think it's a Fred or Frank or Filmore or Felipe Wilson.

I have a white DJ in pretty good condition: I thought I had a blue stocker, too, but can't seem to find it.

What is meant by "SNAP"? Is that an acronym?

How come I've never heard of Up Records as a Detroit label in all my 55 years of collecting Detroit records, and looking at Detroit music collectors' collections, and talking with people from the Detroit music industry of the '60s? Up records is not listed on this very thorough list of Detroit record labels: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=113239958426872347643.000492c279ce94f4b9930

I've never heard of Up Records being from Detroit (or "The Friends" being a Detroit group. I don't hear any of the familiar Detroit session players on it. The name Wilson Williams looks very familiar, but I don't connect it with Detroit. Do any of you really have any evidence that it's Detroit record? It sounds like an East Coast production to me. The Two Friends were a Detroit duo, but this group of "Friends" doesn't sound like it contains Steve Mancha (Clyde Wilson) or Wilbur Jackson. Their voices are very distinguishable, and different from all those in this recording.

So, they must have been distributed by Chess.

Not surprising, as The KKK was founded in Indiana, When my parents and I first visited there in 1952, I saw a sign on a public beach that stated: No dogs, no Nig____ and no Jews!" Just like Nazi Germany, and like we had in Holland during The German occupation! My family and I weren't allowed on a public beach in "The Land of the Free"! And yet, I had family living there in East Chicago, Hammond, Gary and Munster. I guess that most of the Northern industrial cities had Hillbilly neighbourhoods, just like the Black ghettos. Lots of Hillbillies moved north to work in the factories during World War II, just like The African Americans did. In Chicago, they had neighbourhoods on The North Side and The West Side. They had neighbourhoods in Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. I'd bet they had them in St. Louis, and Pittsburgh, as well.

Yes. The 1970s 2nd press would be styrene and have a Delta # in the 100,000s. The original West Coast styrene pressing was #65,700, as stated above.

No. I'm half Dutch and half Canadian: Dutch and Flemish on my father's side and Dutch and Lithuanian on my mother's. I learned (or had learnt ) that "spelt" is the past participle of "to learn" in school in Midwestern Canada in 1949. That was proper Canadian English at the time. If I remember correctly, after The French and Indian War, when Britain took over French Canada, Upper Canada (Ontario) was first settled heavily by Scots from Nova Scotia, and a reasonably high percent of the new British settlers came from Scotland and Northern Ireland (Scots-Irish). That is why Canadians have a heavy Scots influence on their speech, and, apparently, on their spelling conventions, as well. Canadian spelling is NOT the same as official UK spelling, nor is it similar to conventional US. It's something between, but closer to British than to US. But, increasingly, people in B.C. Alberta and Saskatchewan are starting to speak and write like Americans. The English taught in Holland still has that usage, as far as I know. I know that The World has passed me by, and people speak differently now. I guess that my writing now is old fashioned. I am a writer by trade, and my Dutch, Danish and Swedish editors ALL massage my Dutch and English submittals into "contemporary speech" for my comic book and children's book stories, and I dare say, probably will also do that to my adult-level science fiction/comedy books. I had thought that "learnt", "spelt", "spilt" and "whilst" were all still commonly used in The UK. Am I incorrect on that count? I do know now, thanks to posters on this forum, that "Gotten" is now archaic in Britain, and they now use "got" for the past participle of "to get". It seems that gotten is dying out in USA, too (as, apparently, are most, if not all of the past participles that are spelt differently from the simple past tense. As far as I know it's still proper in Canadian English (at least among my family and friends (but I don't speak with many kids)). I do run with a young artist crowd in The Netherlands, and do notice that Dutch language conventions are changing as well. But I'm not going to change the way I've spoken (should that now be spelt: "spoke"? ) for almost 70 years, just to "fit in" (I've never been one of the crowd-as you might surmise). I'm sure that you've noticed that my writing is quite old fashioned. There was a Western story, titled "Yesterday Ranch", about a rich man who lived on a ranch in the wilds of the Colorado mountains during the 1930s, who wanted his "World" to remain in the 1880s. So, he didn't allow telephones, automobiles, or anything that was made after 1889 to be used by anyone on his ranch, or to be brought onto his property. He lived in the World of the late 1800s. I am like that about the 1960s, although my language probably reflects more the 1940s. My musical taste the 1930s through 1966 or so. I enjoy films from the 1920s through early 1950s best (US films -late 1920s to late '40s, British films 1930s-through 1950s, German films 1920s-'30s). I like art work mainly before 1960. I read, for the most part, old books from the 1800s when I was young (Dickens, Wells, Verne, Hugo, etc. and a British World History many volume set from the 1880s). I also read comic books from the 1940s an '50s, but my favourite authors of those stories were men who were born in the late 1800s on rural farms, and used old-fashioned language and stressed old-fashioned values. My car has a standard shift. I use hand turned pencil sharpeners, and still drink tapwater, and don't eat packaged food. I didn't get a personal computer until 2003, and then, only reluctantly, and the same for a mobile phone (only got my first one year ago) and then, only reluctantly, at a request (nee DEMAND) from my family and my business clients. Ask Rod ("Modern Soul Sucks") if I'm a weird bloke.

How many years apart are the 3 different issues? Remember, that sometimes one owner re-activates a label that had stopped operation for some years in between. Joe Von Battle did that with JVB in Detroit, and Detroit's Danceland Records had almost 10 years of suspended operation. But, I agree that all 3 Lakeside Records labels could, potentially have had 3 different owners and could have been unrelated.

My favourite Martha & Vandellas song is "In My Lonely Room".

Your Dad was right. Cincinnati was the "Gateway" to Kentucky, and really, it was, for all intents and purposes, a Southern City. They talk like southerners, and it was an extremely racist city, just like the whole of Indiana, other than its immediate most northerly fringe. But it was more that businessman, Syd Nathan, was located in Cincinnati, and he saw an opportunity to make a lot of money, by catering to the non-mainstream US music tastes (C&W and R&B), which were not being adequately served by The Major record companies (Columbia, Decca, RCA, WB, Capitol). Had Nathan been located in another city, his company would have been located in that other city. perhaps "King Records" in Cincinnati, would have been started by another enterprising entrepeneur wanting to fill that void. It started as "Queen records", as Cincinnati was known as "The Queen City".

The one on the left looks real to me. Mine looks like that, and I bought it when it was out.

Yes. Maurice Jackson recorded in Chicago, and Lakeside was a Chicago label. The NY address MUST be only for AVCO as the distributor. As New York City has no lake of any decent size, it doesn't make sense that it would have a label called "Lakeside". Chicago is on a lake shore, and that lake is the reason why Chicago exists. Clearly, Maurice Jackson and Sound of Black on Lakeside are both on Chicago labels. I have no idea whether or not those labels had any connection. I'm sure that The Sound of Black's release was issued well after my time.

Here's her Baye Record:

Audrey Slo also had a record out on Baye Records (Baltimore?) or DC (Chesapeake Bay?). Baye 1117 _ "Mama *What Dos A Girl Do)". It ALSO sounds like 1965. I have also never seen that one. Surely it was only a local release (and it probably had little if any chart action.

Her certain "impact" couldn't have been very large. I never heard of her and never saw that record. I was looking for records in 1964-66, and looked through hundreds of thousands of 45s. I made trips to The East coast in 1967-71. I never saw that record. i listened to radio in Chicago, also from Detroit, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Toronto, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, during that time. I never heard it played on the radio. IF it charted, it was likely only in Philadelphia and Baltimore (maybe also Wash. DC.?). It must have been a dead rare record, with very small press run, and little chart action. I don't remember seeing her on "American Bandstand", and yet, Dick Clark was a part owner of Swan Records. THAT is a clue that she had little or no chart action. And, being a Caucasian artist would give her MORE chance on Clarks's show than if she were of another heritage. Does anyone here know how to find out if her record had chart action in Baltimore or Philadelphia?

It should be "Theater", as that is common usage in USA. BUT, "Theatre" is used often when a "classy" or dignified image is desired. British spellings are the cliché for old fashioned and "high class" or long-standing (a la "Ye Olde Tavern" -Ancient spelling-(adding letter "e" to the end of the word, using obsolete letters (like the thorn), etc.). I would guess that the spelling "theatre" may comprise between 10 and 15% of theatre names in USA. But it is only used in proper nouns. The common noun should always be spelt: "theater" in US English.

New 45s in the 1960s sold, generally from $0.69 through $1.00. After a few months of little or no sales, they were placed in 50¢, 3 for a Dollar or 4 for a Dollar bins, along with DJ copies. After a while there, not selling, they went to 10 for a Dollar bins. Other sources were Woolworth's Walgreen's 10¢ sales, and thrift and junk stores, where they might go for anywhere from 5 to 25¢ each. There were the warehouse sellers, who might sell large stocks that couldn't be "cherry picked", but might have hundreds of valuable gems among a lot of worthless records, and the overall lots could average from 2-5¢ per 45. Often, in thrift stores, I'd throw a large bunch of 45s (R&B and Soul) into a box and offer, say $5.00, and get them for an average of 5 to 7 cents. The Thrift store people were happy to get anything for them. They were surprised anyone would want them. I used to pay from 25¢ to 50¢ for LPs. I couldn't afford to pay even $1 for a big volume of LPs . I reserved paying that price only for records I wanted really badly, and knew might not be found for lower prices.