Robbk

Chalky is correct. We originally taped it off an uncredited Jobete Music acetate with just the title. I just used the name The Creations as a "filler" name. When Rod S. copied my tapes, naturally he wrote down the "filler names" of my still-unknown artists/groups. "Say, Say baby was sung by The Serenaders in late 1963, and is listed so on a CD.

No. It's from New York, where Clinton was from. Neither the original blue nor the re-pressing orange have the Monarch Delta, nor were they pressed on styrene (as most Monarch pressings were. That label design and font were both used by a couple New York pressing plants during 1962-65. Marton was owned by a New York financier, and located in New York. Not only Clinton and his Parliaments, but also Roy Handy, Tamala Lewis and The Parlettes (Par-Lets) and The Pets were all from The Greater NY Metro Area.

So, you think it's a legit re-issue by the owner of Marton, made for the NS scene? Probably requested by a British dealer on a trip to New York, when he found the original and contacted the owner. Clearly, the new label didn't come from a photocopy of an original 45. It may have come from the original artwork.

Barabara Randolph did okay on "I'm So Thankful", but I was disappointed in it. What I CAN'T figure out, is why Motown didn't put out and plug heavily a Motown artist version of "You Turned My Bitter Into Sweet" (and why they didn't sign Mary Love, Gloria Jones, and Sandy Wynns (Edna Wright), when they signed The Holloway sisters). And The Four Tops' "My Heart Is Calling You" was disappointing, in that it wasn't better than The Magnificents' version. Alice Clark's WB release "You Hit Me Right Where It Hurts" was sung well by Kim Weston, but even that was a bit of a disappointment, in that it wasn't as much better than the WB version by Clark as I'd expected. In fact, I can't remember finding an unreleased Motown recording of an independent label non-Motown recording of a Jobete music song, that was much better. "The Touch of Venus" by Patrice holloway was only about equal to Ed Cobb's independent production of Sandy Wynns' version. I'd like to hear a Funk Brothers' Motown version of Frank Wilson's "Just Call On Me".

My orange boot of Marton 1002 has only M -1002-A and M - 1002 B etched onto the trailer. It has no stamp. I'm not with my 45s now, but, if I'm not mistaken the Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis Marton 45s both have, in addition to the record catalogue number etched in to the runout M-1001-A, M-1001B, M-1002-A. M-1002-B, - they also have the cut numbers A-109-N, A-110-N, A-111-N and A-112-N etched into the runout. There are no stamps on my Marton records, as far as I remember.

I never saw an unissued Motown version of the Tamala Lewis, nor the Roy Handy on Marton, nor The Pets on Carnival, nor any Parliaments demo recordings of songs George Clinton wrote for them while with Motown. However, Don Montgomery (adopted son and nephew of The Vows/Major's/Major IV's Larry Montgomery, told me that he had the Jobete Music acetate of "I Misjudged You" by The Parliaments, that was promised by Miss Ray to George Clinton, to be The Parliaments' first Motown release, but was scratched later, by Berry Gordy, when he closed down Jobete Music's New York office, when Raynoma pressed up Mary Wells' "My Guy" and sold it, and kept the money. "I Misjudged You" was later recorded by The Parliaments and released on Chocolate City Records. We Do know that Alice Clark's WB release was recorded by Kim Weston.

Wasn't the white one also a boot? I don't remember ever seeing ANY white DJs on The Marton label.

The ears don't lie (except when they DO-just not in this case!). So, she IS "Caucasian" after all.

Here's a sale of the record for $24.99 (a good value for a great girl's group sound: https://collectorsfrenzy.com/details/151072368961/Tawny_Von__Last_NightDont_Say_It_Never_Was_Entre_1966_wpicture_postcard The sale includes a postcard with her photo on it, plus the signature of the label owner. I wonder if the photo on the postcard is a bgger version of the one on the stamp?

In the "suits" photo, above, I see what looks to be Little Anthony in the middle. But, I don't see him in the OP's photo. Also, the suits look a bit different. They look lighter in colour in the OP's photo, and the black lapels look thinner and less tapered. I think they may be 2 different groups wearing slightly different suits. Several R&B groups wore suits similar to that during the mid to late '50s. The Flamingos were one. The platters at one time, and several of the New York groups. It's really tough to see who those guys are in the OP's photo, as the view is from the side and the lighting is murky on the three on the right side. Yes, the other photo is The Cadillacs, used for their album.

Here's the original:

Here's the orange boot:

All the boots I know of were the wrong colour. The most common is the orange label. the original was a navy blue. I think there was also a blue boot that was too light (more like powder blue?).

I have a Distants on Thelma with Richard Street's and all the group members' signatures on it. This was his new group, after Otis Williams, Elbridge Bryant and Melvin Franklin left to join Eddie Kendricks and Paul Williams to form The Temptatrions.

She certainly "sounds" "White", especially on the "B" side-not as much on the "A" side. But, as we well know, voices and style of diction can fool you. Priscilla Page being a prime example of "voice style schizophrenia".

I'm sure I've seen a stock copy of it many years ago. But that DOESN'T mean it had a regular commercial press run. That copy was Ron Murphy's. And he got a LOT of press run test records directly from the Detroit pressing plants (that they had kept for many years). Those were usually 2 copies kept by the pressing plant, while the 4 other copies were sent to the record companies. That's how Ron got all those called-back Motown records (including Frank Wilson on Soul). So, there may have been only 6 stockers pressed. But, it seems to me that I've seen multiple stock copies of each of those rare Wingates. So, I'm guessing that all of them were pressed on store stock, with, at least a small press run, locally, in Detroit.

Yes, the label design looks like a Philadelphia pressing plant job. And, because it is a tiny company, it's a LOT more likely that it was a local Philadelphia, Philly Metro Area or South New Jersey label.

I have the Entre record. I bought it in the early-mid '60s. It has no sticker on it. How do you know it is a Pennsylvania label? What are the clues on the record?

The reason it's such a good deal is that nobody knows who Berry GORDON is! Now, maybe a book by Berry Gordy would generate some sales!

It's tough to figure out what the "X" code was used for. Unfortunately, because I didn't buy most of my Savoys new, but found them in thrift stores and junk stores and oldies bargain bins (albeit during the '50s, but a lot later than their issue), I can't place them accurately chronologically, due to mixing in of the additional factor of there being other differences stemming from pressing plants using different label paper, colouring, label design and fonts. But, it seems that they went to a new code from X20 to X20X in about 1957. The double stripes are probably a pressing plant difference, seeming to be an East-Coast feature (but, they only ran a 3-4 year stretch, so there could be a chronological component/factor, as well). It's a New York label, so my knowledge of it (as mine of all East Coast and Southern US labels is much less than that of Midwest and California labels, as i had lived in Chicago and L.A, for many years, and picked up a lot more records from those areas(Chicago/Detroit and L.A.), met a lot more knowledgeable collectors from those areas, and met some music industry people in those areas. We need a New York '50s label expert on this one. Any of you frequent any R&B/Doo Wop forums?

Originally I thought the The X20 code changed to X20X, when the label colour changed from maroon to red, and the labels lost the circular lines of writing "Not licensed for radio broadcast". I looked at all my Savoy records. I have most of the issues from 1128-1197. All my later, bright red issues have "X20X" on them. The earlier maroon issues, which also had the text, invariably had just "X20" as the code. But, I also have a maroon, older looking issue of Savoy 1138 - Wilbert Harrison's "Don't Drop It", which has X20X. So, the colour change wasn't coincidental with the code change. I also have a couple with "X20CA" - apparently a press run from California.

I found this website with a review of a few albums of Powell's. https://bebopwinorip.blogspot.com/2013_02_01_archive.html Apparently, he sang a lot of his own vocals, despite also being the featured instrumentalist on tenor sax. That was fairly unusual for band/orchestra leaders in the 1950s. I'm secretly wondering if he didn't really have another male vocalist do uncredited singing, as Ray Pollard did for Hector Rivera and all The Big Bands did ((a la Joe Williams with Count Basie, etc.), and that these new reviews have come so long after the recordings were made that no one is around to remember that the vocalist WAS, indeed, some young kid, and NOT saxaphonist/bandleader Jesse Powell? Often times, the vocalist was not listed, and the orchestra/band leader and his orchestra got the artist credit. Years later, researchers see specific listings for vocalists on some recordings, and the name of the band leader on others, and assume that the band leader sang the vocals on those. It may not necessarily be so. I KNOW that the singer, although sounding like Joe Williams, was NOT the latter, as he had been with Count Basie for many years, and finally went solo, and was with gangster affiliated Roulette Records in 1960, and so, not likely to have been "moonlighting" with Jesse Powell's Orchestra. Furthermore, there were already vocals by a man with this same voice on Powell's records on Jubilee and Josie Records in the mid to late 195os, and on their Port Records subsidiary (by The Goofers) in the early '60s. So, I suspect that this vocalist could well be Jesse Powell, himself. I really can't decide which is more likely to be true. But, until we have any evidence that it was another singer, I guess we should assume that the singer on this song, and many of his orchestra's male vocals from 1955 through 1960 was Jesse, himself.

Jesse Powell was one of the major R & B band leaders, arrangers and tenor sax players operating out of New York during the 1950s. I have LOTS of R&B group records and records with Jesse Powell and His Orchestra as the featured artists on Atlantic, ATCO, Cat, East-West, Jubilee, Josie, King, Federal, DeLuxe, Fury, Fire, Rama, Savoy, and many other NY and East coast labels, as well as Chess and other labels that leased product. He had several vocalists with his orchestra over the years. Fluffy Hunter was with him early, along with Dan Taylor. He had a few different male singers, I'll try to find out who was with him around 1960.

I have most, if not all of the Nappy Brown 45s on Savoy (a whole boatload by Mr. prolific), often with 2 different pressings. I'll be able to tell if it's just a variation due to individual pressing plants, or if it's a re-pressing on a later Savoy label design/font style.

It sounds very early in style. There wasn't much like that being recorded as late as 1960. The vocalist has the style of Joe Williams. But the voice isn't quite "rich" enough. I've forgotten who Jesse Powell's male vocalist was at that time. But, I'll bet I will recognise the name once we find out.