Robbk

i hadn't heard about any connection between a Charades group from Cleveland. I was just asking if anyone knew about this group, and if they had recorded for Way Out. There wasn't much else going on in Cleveland as far as Soul music production, other than Saru, Courier and Compass, and other small labels. The Charades on Choreo sang "Please Be My Love Tonight", which was an East Coast regional hit in 1962. They were from New York. But, as you didn't list them along with the other Cuba Gooding Charades' labels, i guess they must have been a different New York group.

Was this a Cleveland group that recorded for Way Out Records? If I'm not mistaken, the most well known Soul Charades group was a New York group that recorded for MGM, Choreo, and Okeh.

You misunderstood my posts above. The ALL-black pressing is a (2nd) re-issue from 1958. The original, was the black top with ship, from 1956. The Checker T.V. Slim was the 1st re-issue in 1957. The silver top/black bottom was the first Argo label design, but that design ended before Argo 5277 (before ANY issue of "Flatfoot Sam). As I stated above, your pressing is a mislabeling (possibly the first original press run, but possibly only on a run in a different plant). But, BOTH correctly-labeled and mis-labeled black top and silver bottom press runs were on the original sales and radio play run in 1956.

What I would like to know is how Ingram got together with Bateman and Wylie. Ingram was from a small town in Tennessee, and had been singing in Memphis. I can't Imagine Wylie being in Memphis in 1965. Was Ingraham in New York when he met Bateman? Ingram later recorded in Memphis for KoKo Records. But, h also recorded for Hurdy Gurdy in New York (also Bateman connection). Did he live in New York for a while?

What I didn't write above, but thought I had written, was as follows: Robert Bateman had produced Luther Ingram's previous release on HIB Records, and published both sides himself by his Brianbert Music. , and same for Ingram's Smash record. Bateman, producing both in New York, and in Detroit at that time, got his old Motown colleague, Popcorn Wylie, to write both his HIB and Smash A- sides. So, it seems that Bateman, in his capacity as an independent producer, got Ingram as a client, and had Wiley write the songs for him. Given that, in seems most likely that Bateman recorded (and probably released) Ingram's version before Jamo Thomas ever heard the song. My memory is that I saw (and bought) the Smash record before hearing or seeing the Jamo Thomas record, although the latter was the hit version in Chicago. It's unlikely to me that Bateman first gave his song to Thomas, after his friend Wylie's previous song had been produced By Bateman and Wylie, and Ingram was still Bateman's artist, and Bateman later recorded and released a version by his own artist, AFTER Thomas was experiencing a national hit with it. That makes no sense. That Jamo Thomas or his producer heard Ingram's version first, and Thomas wanted to sing it, and, later had a hit with it, makes a LOT more sense.

We had "Lonely Lover" (the 7 inch cream label acetate, with red ink typed title among our choices for "From The Vaults". But, I don't think Rod taped that off my tapes in the large batch he taped from me in 1981.

I should have recognised her. I live and work in Denmark for some months each year since 1989. But I guess I was out of the country when she was knighted.

I know the feeling. I can see well enough with my reading glasses on, and can remember just about everything I saw or heard, or experienced from 1946 through about 1967. But, I have no idea what's been happening the last 20 years or so.

Looks like Etta Cameron, rather than Etta Campbell.

Lana was an oldies label that only relased alternate takes of previous hit records. That Lana record came out in late 1964 and is an alternate take. It is fairly rare, too. But, as it is on an oldies label, it shouldn't be too valuable. You might note that the recordings on Lana are generally not very good quality, and those alternate takes, although interesting, are generally not as good to ANYONE'S ears (no matter what taste one has) as the hit version. There were a few exceptions, that were better. They tend to sell for considerably more than an oldies label record, but still not in the league of the original label records.

So! He was just joking about thinking Alexander might really be Andy Williams! A little hyperbole on Alexander's lack of soulfulness, eh? Ha! Ha! And would you believe I'm still making a living as a comedy writer (albeit mainly for kids)? As The Americans think British humour is so dry and subtle, what must they think of mine, which is so subtle, it can't be detected with a microscope? I guess that's why I work for a Dutch company! I was banished from USA media for having no sense of humour! Holland has always been known for taking in the unwanted! Nevertheless (as Billy Butler once sang),.........I'd love to be in on the joke of that Tiny Tim/Supremes reference! What's the deal with that?

That's typical for a woman's handwriting, as opposed to a man's, but I wouldn't say it's typical of American, any more than a Canadian, Dutchman or a Dane. I don't really remember noticing that Brits have uglier-looking handwriting than Americans.

Absolutely! A. Harris is a writer on some Sir Rah cuts. I seem to remember A. Harris as a writer on many Detroit Soul songs on various small labels. I'd bet he is a co-owner of Boss, together with the owner of Sport records. I've seen the names "Al Harris", "Andrew Harris", "Art Harris" and "Albert Harris". I can't remember which were on Detroit labels. Anyone here have an idea who A. Harris is? I DO remember that we discussed Sport Records on a few threads on Soulful Detroit. And, I believe that Ron Murphy or Ralph Terrana told us who the owner was. But that was one of the pre-2005 lost threads. So, I can't look it up. The loss of The SDF Archives is a terrible loss. There was a tremendous amount of information in those classic threads, much of which came from now-deceased forum members, who had been people in the music industry in Detroit during the 1960s.

Why would crooner Andy Williams be moonlighting, signed to a tiny Detroit label? At that time, he had a large contract with a major label. Did he need more money? Was he likely to make money from sales of a non-plugged lousy record on a tiny label? Was he looking for it to get him more gigs in Detroit? He was at his height in show business at that time-a superstar. He had his own high rated TV variety show at that time, and had a lot of clout with powerful NBC. He could command whatever he wanted for any appearance. It makes NO sense at all. The similar voice, name initials and twinkly piano have to be just coincidences. Andre Williams was currently working for Sport (Super Sonic Sound Productions (who also produced Boss)), as producer, songwriter and artist with "Pearl Time" on Sport 105. Clearly, A Williams is Andre Williams.

I've never seen it.

She went to my high school (Bowen High School in South Chicago), just 20 years later than I. Bowen had a fabulous music department, which churned out many great musicians, and a lot of good Soul singers.

I think that THAT Boss Records (no connection with The Celebrities' Boss) was owned by the owner of Sport Records, as was Sir Rah Records. They ALL have John L. Music, with at least half participation in the publishing, and, otherwise full participation. The sharing participation is represented by Daedalian, Earlbarb, and Chatlee Music, which represent varying combinations of Pied Piper producers (Jack Ashford, Lorraine Chandler, Mike Terry, and possibly, Herbie Williams and Joe Hunter, etc.). The overriding link is the owner of Sport, who likely financed all 3 labels. The Pied Piper producers may have had some ownership participation in Boss and Sir Rah, but I think they were just production staff for Sport. Sport also had some connection with Chicago, with, I believe, Andre Williams producing some cuts there. Along with John L. Music, Super Sonic Sound Productions produced ALL productions of all 3 labels. That's a group that, like John L. Music, represents the owner of Sport, and both Sport productions using Pied Piper people, and also those using other Detroiters, such as Johnny Allen and Andre Williams, and Dale Warren. So, my guess is that Boss is NOT a Pied Piper label, but a label owned by Sport's owner, possibly as a joint venture with Pied Piper people, but, more likely to have been just hiring them to produce the sessions. I doubt that there was a connection between Detroit's Giant Records and the Super Sonic Sound Productions labels, other than Pied Piper people working on their productions. Reggie Alexander and Johnny Dixon were Detroit Soul singers who had some other Detroit Soul releases. I remember seeing Johnny Dixon's name as a group member (but forget which group). If I'm not mistaken, Jeen & Him were a Caucasian duo. Jeen was probably named Jean Carter, writer of one of their songs. I'll be curious to find out the real story of Sport, Boss and Sir Rah Records from Lorraine, rather than just conjecture.

I have the original Argo 5277 in mid 1956. It has the black top with ship design. It has Oscar Wills singing "Flatfoot Sam" on the A side, and Paul Gayten's band playing "Nervous Boogie" on the B side. The Oscar Wills A side ("Flatfoot Sam") was also released on Checker (870) some months later by T.V. Slim (Oscar Wills' stage name). I have seen your misprint issue before. It is just a misprinting, is it not? -with the "Flat Footsam" side as the vocal by Oscar Wills/T.V. Slim? Or is it just an instrumental by Paul Gayten's band? The all black issue is an oldie re-issue from 1958.

The oldest Argo design was silver top with ship, and black bottom. Then, it reversed to black top with ship, and silver bottom. Then it went to all black. It was called Marterry before it was Argo.

Yes, Gene Brooks. That was the name given on the SDF thread. He must have paid for the session, and Wylie got a a share for producing it and 'distributing" it, and why it was a "subsidiary" of Wylie's A Go Go Records.Maybe they pressed 200, and most ended up stored by Brooks, and finally destroyed.

It was DEFINITELY recorded in 1966. I seem to remember Ron Murphy having gotten a copy of it from the local, Detroit pressing plant (was it Archer? or American?, some time in the early 1970s, when he got several other rare Detroit records (when he bought for almost nothing, old pressing plant stock test pressings that had been kept (as a policy) for 2nd press runs. That's the same method by which he obtained The Frank Wilson on Soul and several other rare Motowns. THAT particular GeneBro may never have gotten to The UK, as he probably sold it in the EARLY '70s. It may be in a local Detroiter's collection. I agree with the theory that Popcorn may have recorded Little, for a "custom" job, and that it never got distributed, and the stack of them that never even got to record shops may have been destroyed by now. I used to drive to Detroit (from Chicago) one or two Saturdays a month to look through record shops and thrift shops, and NEVER saw a copy, and never saw one in any of my big Motown/Detroit Soul collector colleagues' collections. It IS a dead rare record, but, I'd guess there are, maybe at least 15-20 sitting in people's collections in UK, USA and Canada, rather than only 4 in The World. There a a lot of collectors in North America, who bid on records with false names, who remain completely unknown in collectors' circles. I met many over the years (back in the day) fighting with them over finds in thrift stores and record store bargain bins. They don't let anyone see their collections, and don't want anyone to know what they have. Regarding the label name, if I'm not mistaken, on a pre-2004 Soulful Detroit Forum (SDF) thread we had several of our posters who were around in the business in the 1960s comment on that record among many other rare Detroit labels. Ron Murphy told us that "Gene Bro" was ONE person, the financier of the record, his name was Gene Bro_ _ _ _ _. I remember having seen the full last name, and Murphy even told us something about the man. We had tonnes of fantastic threads like that (where I've picked up MUCH of my knowledge about Detroit and Chicago Soul records). Unfortunately, when the Soulful Detroit website moved to a new, larger capacity platform, ALL the SDF thread Archives from its inception in 2001 through summer 2004 were lost (including hundreds of "classic threads" with more than a hundred posts and hundreds of label scans per thread). It was a tragic loss and a horrible thing to happen. We had posts by Joe Hunter, Jack Ashford, Clay MacMurray, Spyder Turner, Bobby Eli, Ray Monnette, many deceased big-time Detroit record collectors and many other artists and producers from the 1960s.

I've never heard of any such recording. Why hasn't a recording of it surfaced? I can't imagine Marvin Gaye singing THAT song, nor any producer at Motown producing him singing it! I don't think it's a song for a man to sing, but, even if it could be, it's not something for Marvin Gaye to sing.

"Ask The Lonely" by The Four Tops, which was released at a time fairly close to Marton 1002, pressed by RCA, had a code of " S4KM-0703-1-E " ALL stamped into the deadwax. S-stands for 1965, (4KM same as listed above by Chalky), 0703 number of the pressing from the start of 1965 to that point, 1 stands for 1st press run, E stands for "RCA EAST pressing plant"-(e.g. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania). If Marton 1002 orange press run in 1978 had been pressed by RCA, it would have had whatever code they were using then. I don't own ANY records that are that recent pressed by RCA, so don't know their late 1970s codes. But, clearly, in any case, there is no pressing plant press code whatsoever.

I have seen some Arctic records distributed inside Jamie/Guyden sleeves, but most came in plain brown sleeves.

I've never seen any, and I was looking for records in Chicago 3-4 times per week, and 1-2 Saturdays per month when it was released and for all the months after, through April 1972. I seem to remember some Golden World and subsidiaries using stickered stock pressings for DJs, but only for a few records.