Robbk

If there was already a commercial press run at the pressing plant, and the lot was not yet sent to a distributor, Motown would have ordered the pressing plant to have the records melted down. The pressing plants' record plastic suppliers often picked up unwanted/unsellable records at the distributors. So, if The Andantes' record DID get to Detroit distributors, and Gordy ordered the record cancelled, they'd have ordered the plastic company to pick all the pressed Andantes' records with their next general pickup of unwanted records from those distributors. If The Andantes' record boxes were marked for melt down (plastic company pick-up), you can bet that workers at the distributorship would have lifted several, given that they were a Motown product (ESPECIALLY because the plastic companies would NOT count how many were in each box). But, some workers would have "lifted" one here or there as soon as those boxes arrived at the distributor. I think that is how ALL the extra non-inside Motown copies remained safe from meltdown. I don't think any copies got to record shops, and very, very few, if any got to DJs. No white DJ copies were pressed, and (to my knowledge) no yellow issues were found with any promotor stamp (like Gil Bogos, or any of the others Motown used) to provide to DJs. It was not played in Chicago. After Toledo and Cleveland, Chicago was always first to receive Motown product, back in the early/mid '60s. But I've asked Ron Murphy, Carl Pellagrino, Spyder Turner, Kris Peterson, Clay MacMurray, Stu Bass, The Count, Ray Monette, Dennis Coffey, and other Detroiters who were around then. They said they never heard The Andantes' record played on the radio in 1964, and never saw it sold commercially in a shop in Detroit. I was listening to Detroit's Soul radio stations in 1964. I didn't hear it played. The talk around, including on the inside of Motown, was that Berry called the record back (e.g. cancelled the issue and had any pressed up records destroyed, except the company file copies (and maybe personal copies of the group?)). We need Louvain Demps to tell us exactly what happened. But, I believe what I've stated here is what she told us. I can't remember from what sources I've heard what, but I seem to remember hearing that Berry told The Andantes that he needed them more to sing backup in the studio, and that he decided that they were too valuable to let them go on the road to promote their own records, so he had decided to NOT issue their record after all, but to make it worth their while, he would raise their salaries. Let's ask Louvain for her view on what happened.

Thanks Andy. I've replied.

You're right, Bob. The background tracks are identical. The difference is only the girl group backing Big Maybelle.

Yes, using SOME of the Chuck Jackson backing track. It is a different mix.

It's their own fault for going in for fads! I've been wearing the same type of clothes since 1951 - blue jeans, T-shirts and a baseball cap (same at 6 years old as at 68. I only worked on a "white collar" job for an employer for ONE year of my life. So, I only wore a suit for 1 year. I bought it in 1972. I still wear it for weddings and funerals.

I was around in 1964, collecting records (and collecting ALL Motown releases). And I knew several others like me in Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and San Francisco (and there were others in the other major cities), who did the same. I had friends working at distributorships (and a couple record shops) in Chicago, that would pull one of each new Motown release for me. So I KNOW that The Andantes record NEVER got to Chicago distributors. It probably only got to its main Detroit distributor before it was recalled. It must have gotten there, because more copies of the record (at least 9 or 10) have turned up than the pressing plant 6 test copies (used for Motown official copies). I KNOW that there were at least a couple collectors that worked for Detroit's distributors who would have grabbed some copies of any Motown record which was "pulled back" and slated for destruction. The fact that The Andantes had never had a hit had no bearing. By 1964, many collectors bought ALL Motown releases. And those were the very type of people who worked in record stores and record distributorships.

Ha! Ha! It turns out I had both records all along, but just didn't remember (I hate being old!). She recorded it in 1964, for Scepter Records. It's on Scepter 1288: And the writers were, indeed, Chuck Jackson and Luther Dixon, as shown on both records.

AHA! I THOUGHT such a recording couldn't possibly have come out in 1957. So, the photo on the video was matched with a later recording by Big Maybelle of Chuck Jackson's song, which Big Maybelle recorded for Scepter Records, whom she was with during the early '60s! Yet another extreme coincidence of an artist singing 2 completely different songs sharing the same title. I've been a storywriter for both Dutch and Danish Disney Publications since 1984, and over a long career, it is possible to forget one has used a given title before. I found, when submitting a story, that I had used the same tittle 27 years before, for a completely different story, with different characters. I doubt that Big Maybelle forgot that she had sung a song for Savoy with the same title only 7 years before. And, I'm sure that she had wanted to sing Chuck Jackson's song (she did a nice job on it).

Funny, I have most of the Savoys from that period. But I've never seen nor heard that one before. I thought that Savoy's 1500 series was later than 1957. I thought it was 1959. I never knew that Big Maybelle recorded that before Chuck Jackson. I'm sure that it WAS recorded before Jackson's 1961 version. But 1957 sounds much too early for the recording on that record (especially those strings). "There Goes My Baby" by The Drifters in 1959, was SO very much of a novelty having strings, I just can't believe this was out in 1957. IF it was, it was too far ahead of it's time. Which is why it never made the radio in most big city markets (maybe it got airplay in NY Metro area?). I'd like confirmation on the release date and its charting history (if it exists).

Artistcs- Okeh 7232 - "This Heart of Mine"/"I'll Come Running" -1965

The reason it may be boring is perhaps because he is consciously leaving out the juiciest parts, because they may not put him in the best light (similar to what has been written down as US history in the official US school books).

There are way too many that are fantastic on both sides. like Darrell Banks, Terri Bryant, Miracles, but I like The Flamingos on Chance "Golden Teardrops"/"Carried Away" (1953). Tough having some of the highlights of one's life being 61 years ago.

The Ink Spots used their own name, as did a few other '50s groups and single artists. But most used fake names, and most cuts were made by Caucasian non-stars (many of whom had had their own commercial records released, but mostly with no success at all. Many of them also recorded "covers" of hits by hit artists on other budget "cover" labels.

That is what I had always heard. Maybe this was a "vanity" press run, just for Berry to provide concrete records for The Andantes' personal desires, similar to Miss Ray's tiny run of Miracle 2. Berry had promised them a record, but had no intention of letting them make personal appearances or go on the road to promote their record. He wanted them singing backgrounds in the studio every day. Maybe this is similar to his favours of letting a record get pressed for DJs Joel Sebastian and Tom Clay. Maybe only a box of 50 were run (plus the 6 press run test records).

Both the Andantes and Frank Wilson probably had 500 or 1000 pressed up, and were both recalled, and per Berry Gordy's instructions, were destroyed before being distributed. Those that did escape other than the official Motown file copies and pressing plant test pressings were probably lifted while at the distributor, before the destruction order was given. I'm sure that none ever got to shops in Chicago. I'd bet none never even got to shops in Detroit.

Originally, I thought that only the 6 stock pressing plant test copies were pressed up, with 2 being retained by the pressing plant (which Ron Murphy eventually got-and later sold), and 4 copies going to Motown, 2 to Berry Gordy, 1 to The Motown Record File, 1 to The Jobete Music File, and 1 to Quality Control. I'm beginning to wonder if for this and Soul 35019, there wasn't a regular press run and shipment to a Detroit distributor, and subsequent call back with order to destroy them, and some "escaped". Unlike the Frank Wilson, there seem to have been NO DJ copies pressed.

Actually, "Don't Do It"/"You Broke My Heart", although Detroit-produced (and recorded at Motown's studios), wasn't on DETROIT'S Rich label. It was on Nashville DJ, John Richbourg's label, located in Nashville, Tennessee (despite Blakely's Detroit-based manager, James Hendrix and Motown's Berry Gordy being the owners of the product). That was Richbourg's Rich's last release. After Rich went bust, for whatever reason, Gordy and Hendrix released "I've Got That Feeling"/"I Want My Share" on a "new", Motown pressed, Rich Records (which WAS a Detroit label-in ALL ways).

I'd say that the Mable records look like around 1977-79. I believe Hendrix was already in South Carolina in the early '70s, based on some later Carrie pressings I've seen with a SC address. And, I was told that the Shenita release (also with a SC address), came out in 1973.

These have to be '70s re-issues by just James Hendrix (probably without his partner, Berry Gordy's knowledge, due to its meagre sales (probably just in The Carolinas and Georgia, or, possibly across the South)), just as the Cornell Blakely on Shenita records was. Both of those Hendrix re-issue labels operated out of South Carolina, where Hendrix had moved in the early '70s, after leaving Detroit and Tennessee.

Shelley Haims, the head of Pied Piper Productions, was, at least, co-owner of Sport Records (possibly along with Andrew Harris?). Haims was listed as owner of that label on several sources. Harris was listed as the owner and founder by a couple sources. Could it be that either Harris, or Haims, was the linking co-owner of all 3 labels (Sport, Boss and Sir Rah), and that Boss and Sir Rah had other co-owners? Could "John L. Brown" be a stage name for Andrew Harris, and the basis for the name of the publisher, "John L Music"? I'm confident that Lorraine can answer these questions.

Monty Python is my favourite type of comedy. I don't like The Three Stooges much at all. They were much too slapstick. I don't think Laurel and Hardy were all that funny, except for their more subtle underlying comedy. Same for The Marx Brothers' more slapstick sequences. I DO like Groucho's more subtle humour, especially by himself. He was an extremely funny TV quiz show host and individual humourist after his film career ended. The Marx Brothers were Jews from Alsace (German part of France). They didn't have any British blood in them. They probably left Alsace (which was part of Germany at that time) because The Germans have no sense of humour (if their top all-time comedian Willie Milovitch is any criterion). I DON'T like Bennie Hill or Tommy Cooper, but DO like The Two Ronnies, Faulty Towers, The Black Adder. Not Dame Edna so much, indifferent about Morecombe & Wise. I love Margaret Rutheford, Alec Guiness, Alastair Sim, Robert Morely, Peter Cook, Peter Sellers. I never liked the I take it that you are referring to British subtle (high-brow) humour, as opposed to British slapstick. I think, if I had my druthers, I'd choose British over US. But, I like US/Canadian repitory group comedy, such as Second City and The Saturday Night Players. I think Tiny Tim and ANYONE are total opposites. And I DID get Rod's joke. I was just pulling his leg (but didn't move it all that much, I'm afraid).

I agree! It is to 1960s Motown what Ian Levine's Motor City recordings are to '60s Motown. The original shouldn't have been "adjusted". It was fine, just the way it was.

Thanks Heikki. I've wanted to know that for a long time.

Certainly Lorraine C, can tell us the relationship that Pied Piper had to Sport, Boss and Sir Rah Records. And while she's at it, I hope she'll explain the situation af Detroit's Giant Records.

Now that I've listened to the snippets, I agree that they must be a Caucasian Soul group. They sound pretty good, at least on "No time For You", "Ain't No Big Thing", and "Sweet Little Girl", that rock song, "Underdog" was terrible.