Robbk

I met Tom DePierro there in early 1974. Someone told him I was a big Motown collector. He liked my taste in music. We became friends. I showed him where he could find good R & B and Soul records in the L.A. area. I hung out at Motown, while not overseas on UN jobs. In 1976, we suggested that Motown should release the best of its vaulted recordings. I was taken on as a consultant on the project. It was general, at first, and soon got formalised as the "From The Vaults" project. At first, it was expected that it would start with 5 LPs on Motown, and if they sold well, there would be 5 more. I guess there were people there that didn't have much faith that there was a market for that old unreleased music. We ended op getting only 1 LP out on the recently-started budget label, Natural Resources, and NO marketing push or exposure, whatsoever. It was doomed to failure. They did put out 2 more LPs after Tom and I left (starting Airwave Records). One was released in 1981, and one in 1982 (with different series names). They used only unreleased songs from major artists, except a Monitors, a Kim Weston. and a Spinners (only because of their Atlantic success). More of our work got used when lots of unreleased cuts got onto Motown's 25th Anniversary albums from 1984. "Say, Say Baby" by The Serenaders and "This Ole Heart" by The Five Quails, both on this new Ace CD, represent the last of our chosen cuts to make it to legitimate release, unless "Tears, Nobody, And A Smile" by The Serenaders has still not made it (although I believe it has). Even The Pronouns and many of the other Motown Gospel I suggested make up one special album, have at least, made it to digital release.

Very impressive song list. That took some digging in The Vault. It reminds me of my days there. Finally, almost all the songs we slated for release have made it to plastic, CD or Digital release.

They start even earlier than that in the early 1960s, in the 50,000s. 90,000 is already 1964.

With a ZTSC number in the 96700s, it would have been released in mid 1964.

I think this is the same Pageants that had several releases on Philadelphia labels, although Joe Davis operated out of New York. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the recordings on both acetates were pressed up and released on some small New York labels.

I think they are just different pressing plants. Rainbow top Symbol 216 - East Coast - 66 SY-277 - mid 1966 (RCA NY?). Orange top Symbol 216 - Delta 62385 - July, 1966 - Monarch Pressing Plant, L.A. Same time. I don't remember one style pressing earlier than the other. I bought the rainbow copy in Chicago new, and saw the orange, West Coast pressing in L.A. one month later.

That's the song sung by Santana that I've heard, that I like most. But, I don't like listening to it. But, then, I'd only ever heard one song by Sanyana before today (their mega hit-I can't even remember its name, but it MUST have been a mega monster hit if I've heard it at all, not having listened to radio since 1966). My favourite versions: 1 - Impressions 2 - Major Lance 3 - Jerry Butler distant 4- Five Stairsteps

It could well be a facsimile boot. Post a scan of it. The original should have thicker plastic and a different thread on the trailer.

What's interesting about this record is that "Crazy For You" is a Jobete Music song (from the L,A. office, of course.

Yes. But didn't virtually ALL of those outside clients that used The Chicago Office come from The Upper Midwest (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri and Iowa. We were always told that almost all, if not all, were pressed at Terre Haute.

Yes, now I realise that Capitol never used that typeface. Why would anyone do that? They could have taken a screen shot of the Samar record (several of which are on The Internet. I should have recognised Capitol 5969. That's one of my favourites.

I have recently seen a Capitol 5969 on You Tube playing the Samar cut. Interestingly enough, it lists Chicago's Phil Wright as arranger (but was really arranged by Bert DeCoteaux in New York), and lists Chicago's Carone Productions. But the record looks like a genuine Capitol pressing from the late '60s. I picked up the Samar release in the late '60s. I certainly know it was a New York production. It was written by East Coast writer, Bob Stone. They also changed the writers to 2 people (albeit New Yorkers). In ALL my years of record scrounging, never saw the Capitol. Is it a British Bootleg? -made during the time that record was still "covered up" on The Northern Scene?

I'm sure I've seen an original orange pressing, as well.

Interesting! It was originally on that small (L.A.?) label, and leased by Mira, and sold some. The original must be quite rare, as I had never seen it, despite looking over massive L.A. 45 stocks between 1965 and 1972.

I went to Van McCoy's website, and played "Hold On" on his song list. They have a DIFFERENT song listed as "Hold On", sung by a group, which has those words sung in the song, and sounds like it was written and arranged by Van. But, the words are so different, you couldn't mistake it for Marvin Smith's song. I still think, now, that I remember another version of the Marvin Smith song. But can't remember who sang it, so I can't look it up in my records.

Van McCoy sang with a group, - The Starlighters. But, they were together in 1958-60. I think that was too early for that song. He also produced a group called The Four Buddies in 1963-64. But, I don't remember them singing "Hold On". It was too early for The Spellbinders and Chris Bartley & Group. Van, himself, did have many releases, with background singers. But, you'd recognise his voice (sounding very like Chris Bartley). If it was released, I'm sure I have it. But he produced so many individual singers and groups on stray labels on so many one-shot projects, and so many other East Coast artists recorded his songs, that it's difficult to remember where to look in my records. It now rings a bell in my mind that there was another released version. Was it a male group? From the arrangement style and instrumentation, can you tell me a range of years in which it may have been recorded (i.e. 1961-62, or 1959-60)?

Tommy Hunt's version is very nice, as well. Naturally, the song is great - having been written by Van McCoy.

Tommy Hunt sang it on Atlantic 2278. That was released before Marvin Smith's Brunswick release.

I don't have 1007 after all. I have 1001 - 1006: 1001 Heatwaves - "What Price For Love" 1002 Floyd Smith - "When We're In Love" 1002 Marvin L. Sims - "Now I'm In Love With You" 1003 Azie Danfair - "You've Got Everything I Want" 1004 Marvin L. Sims - "(Nina)Have You Seen My Baby" 1005 Marvin L. Sims - "Hurting Inside" 1006 Guys & Dolls - "Looking For A Lover" I know that 1007 CAN'T be another Marvin L. Sims release, as my friend, Bob Pruter stated on his blurb on Sims and Mellow, that he only had 6 cuts released on that label. He stated that Mellow ran from 1965 through 1967. So, it is possible that there was a 1007 released. The number looked familiar, so I had thought I had seen it. But, the fact that I have only 1001-1006, plus 2 1002's, leads me to believe that they may have stopped at 1006. Why do you ask if it exists? Was there a listing of it somewhere? Or a rumour? If so, what artist is supposed to be on it?

That seems to be a familiar-looking number. I think I might have it, or probably have seen it. I'll check it when I return to my Chicago 45s in a few weeks.

ALL the issues looked like Chicago pressings tome (other than the boots). St. Louis DID have a few small pressing plants in the late 1960s. But MOST of their Soul records were pressed in Chicago at that time. I'd be surprised if they recorded the songs in Chicago (which they did), then had them pressed in Chicago, then went back to St. Louis, had some local success there, and got Wise World to press them in St. Louis. I'd guess that all the legit pressing was done in Chicago.

It was around quite a bit.-especially the DJ copies. Special Agent was released before it. It IS her hardest Brunswick to find. But not rare.

Are you referring to percentages of the Surinamers and Dutch people of Surinamse heritage living in The Netherlands? Or percentages of the overall Dutch population (the latter couldn't be possible in my estimation).

That looks very plausible, and appears to be the more likely scenario, rather than a re-issue AFTER the national distribution deal with Bell.

No WONDER I've never seen it. Well, if Green and the group had several boxes of them, how come NOT EVEN ONE has ever surfaced? How did a 1966, or '67 record label owner in Grand Rapids not know about Ric Williams' Chicago Zodiac, who had been recording around half of their cuts, to that point, in Detroit? I still have pertinent unanswered questions about Grand Rapids' Zodiac Records.