Robbk

I have both the SonBert and Correc-Tone issues, and I've always thought they were exactly the same takes, mixes, and cuts (e.g. version). Just a slightly-different title shown on the records.

To ME, "I Know Better" is not a "ballad" but a mid-tempo cut. But it is certainly one of my most loved of their End recordings.

I was listening to R&B music regularly since 1953, and it morphed into so-called "Soul music, gradually between 1960 and 1963 or so. So, both my favourite artists and songs might not even qualify as "Soul", and CERTAINLY not so-called, "Northern Soul'. My all-time favourite groups are The Flamingos and The Five Keys. The first songs I heard that I heard by the Flamingos in 1953, that I loved, was a 5-part harmony ballad titled "Golden Teardrops" on Chance Records, led by Sollie McElroy. But their first song that really turned me on to them was "I'm Yours" on Parrot Records, in 1954, a faster 5 part harmony slightly up-tempo ballad (or really slow mid-tempo) song. They lasted into the 1970s, but I didn't like any of their post mid-'60s recordings that would be considered Northern Soul. As for The Five Keys, I love their recordings for Aladdin Records, especially from 1951-54. The first I heard was "The Glory of Love", a greasy 5-part harmony ballad from 1952, in 1953. But my favourite from them was "My Saddest Hour" a mid-tempo B-side song from 1953. My favourite groups that would be considered "Northern Soul" groups would be The Temptations. My favourite songs by them are: "My Girl", "Since I Lost My Baby", and "A Tear From A Woman's Eyes". I also liked "Grand Spanish Lady" by The Royal Ravens from Mike Hanks' "Pig Pen" in 1963. My favourite male singers are Nat "King" Cole- (favourite song: "The Christmas Song", Ray Pollard (with The Wanderers 1954-1963)-favourite songs "A Little Too Long", "Run, Run, Senorita, Sollie McElroy(with The Chance Flamingos), Nate Nelson (Chance, Parrot, Checker Flamingos and Starglows(ATCO)), Rudy West and Maryland Pierce (The Five Keys(Aladdin)), and Richard Street (Distants, Majestics, Monitors)-Favourite songs(Distants-"Come On", Majestics "Cry", Monitors "Crying In The Night". My favourite female singers are Carolyn Crawford (Motown-"I'll Come Running", "Lover Boy", Until You Came Along, When Someone's Good to you), Mary Wells (Motown, 20th Century Fox, ATCO)-favourite songs -"My Guy', "You Lost The Sweetest Boy", "Honey Boy", Gloria Lynne (Everest, Fontana)-favourites "I Wish You Love", "You Don't Have To Be A Tower of Strength", Brenda Holloway (Tamla)-favourites: "When I'm Gone", "Just Look What You've Done", Kim Weston (Tamla, Gordy Records- favourites: "Lookin' For The Right Guy", "I'm Still Loving You", "Take Me In Your Arms", Jan Bradley (Formal, Night Owl, Chess Records)- favourites: "Mama Didn't Lie", "I'm Over You", "Behind The Curtains", Dee Dee Warwick- favourites: "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me", "Suspicious Minds". But, it's very difficult for me to pick absolute favourite singers and songs I have over 1000 '60s "Soul" recordings that I rate as perfect 100s, and over 100 each of male and female singers that I like all so much that I couldn't rank any of them ahead of the others.

Maybe those were just Duke's file copies, and the project was stopped before they made a commercial-sized pressing run? I doubt that enough copies got to record shops to have any sales. And I remember that WVON and KGFJ played EVERY Bobby Bland issue during the mid 1960s. They didn't play that one. If they had, I'd have gotten one at Dolphin's of Hollywood (where I worked). We didn't get that one. So, it must not have been marketed. We'd have gotten it from our distributor. I'd have it in my collection now, if our distributor would have carried it.

I'll add my 2 cents. I never saw a store-stocker of "That's My Girl" on Verve, and in both Summers of 1968 and 1969 I made record buying trips across USA, including New York , Philadelphia, Baltimore-Washington, Boston, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Buffalo metro areas. So, I probably would have seen it IF it had a commercial release.

Afro Blues Quintet +1. - Caribbean Jazz (Vibes & flute) versions of Soul and Gospel Walk on By Moses/Let My People Go & Wade In The Water Moses/Let My People Go & Wade In The Water Jericho (Joshua Fit The Battle Of) The In Crowd Of course these are not only not "Covers" (which need to be out at the same time as the original, - they are not even REMAKES, as they are in a totally different genre, and also don't follow the same musical patterns, plus contain a LOT of improvisation. So, they are something almost completely different. But I LOVE Jazz instrumental versions of R&B, Blues, Jazz, Gospel, Soul, and even Folk original songs.

I've been collecting Bobby Bland records since his Modern 45s in 1953. I've never seen it. Up to its release I had all the Duke 45s. I got all the rest up to about #450. I never heard of any collectors having it. Maybe a set of test runs for a pressing run were made, but I doubt that the record was commercially issued.

To me, "Some Good In Everything Bad" by The Fabulous Apollos is by FAR and away the very best cut recorded and released by Valtone. Yes, Frank brown owned Valtone. And i agree in thinking there was no connection of his Boss records with the Sport Records' boss label, despite their both being located in Detroit during a partially overlapping period. I'm not with my 45s now, but can't recall having seen a #104. I'll try to remember to check that when i return to them.

The Checkers - The White Cliffs Of Dover - Remake of Vera Lynn's UK WWII hit. I bought this in 1953 when it was out. Maybe some of your grandparents listened to the original. My grandparents were listening to music in The 1890s.

"I'll Be There" by The Uptones 1962, remake of Bobby Darin's 1960 cut:

15 hours ago, Soul Salad said: I can only speak from my perspective (from the sales/chart hits in the UK) of course millions were sold, but growing up even to this day ALL "Motownish" radio plays/hits happen to ALL be on the Motown label. I cant think of any records at this point that were "Motownish" but NOT on the Motown label. Answer: With you first being a Soul fan during the 1980s and 1990s, naturally the Motown hits would be played as oldies a lot more on BBC than even the biggest hits of the '60s motownish non-Motown records. Clearly you didn't get the opportunity to listen to offshore "Pirate" Radio. So, I understand your point of reference, which doesn't have even a remotely clear picture of what happened in The US record market back during the 1960s.

(1) Of course they did! The Motown label sold literally millions of records. Why would you ask such a question? How else can anything be bought but actively? Can one passively buy a record? Maybe you should clarify the intent of your question. (2) Your impressions of the relative markets for Motown records and non-Motown records that sound "Motownish" aren't quite accurate, as many motown-sounding records produced by non-Motown record companies charted and even were regional and/or national, or even international hits. Yes, your impression that a higher % of Motown's own "Motown-sounding records sold well than the non-Motown "Motownlike" records is correct.

True enough, but MANY of those totally non-commercial issues were only produced to an actual pressing stage because they were favours to people, some of which for the company's prestige, some for favours owed from people who helped Motown (distributors, DJs, etc) in some other way, some for music business "political" reasons, in-house employees "vanity" recordings/pressings, favours for relatives and close friends, etc. All these categories represent a good portion of Motown's least commercial pressings. Motown recorded hundreds and hundreds of songs. Of those many, I probably have a favourite list of only maybe 60 or 70 that I am terribly sorry they didn't issue on plastic during the 1960s (such as "A Tear From A Woman's Eye" by The Temptations, "Crying In The Night" by The Monitors, and "All I Have Left Are Memories" by Sammy Turner, "Tears, Nobody, and A Smile" by The Serenaders, "Lover Boy" by Carolyn Crawford, and "All I Do (Is Think About You) by Tammie Terrell, etc.). And that's probably a minuscule % of their overall recording. So, I don't think they did a poor or inefficient job of quality control. Based on their investment and scale of operations, they were the most efficient (and probably profitable) record company I can think of.

That sheer volume of releases literally drove me to hit the thrift shops, junk stores, five and dimes, record shop bargain bins, and discount stores special sales, and flea markets hard and heavy from a young age, just to be able to afford all of them I wanted. But, it got me a huge collection and ability to become an archivist without taking that field of employment. And it eventually got me work at Motown. So, I'm glad my life took that route.

I don't agree. Listening to writers' or demo singers' recording of an in-house demo is not the same as listening to the final, commercial recording, after several takes of the song, possibly sung by different singers, and going through several different mixes of the background instrumental music. Every finished record has its own combination of elements that will combine into a "best" version, one of which might return a monster hit, and the others might not even chart. I know this from my own experience at Airwave, and through people I knew at Motown. Motown Quality Control made LOTS of poor choices, to go along with their big winners. There were many choices, especially by Billie Jean Brown, that I disliked intensely. But the overall quality of their finished product was so good, that it brought them a lot more hits than any other record company, and a much, much higher % (ratio) of hits and charted records to those actually pressed up in reasonable commercial volumes, that they didn't waste a lot of money pushing "losers". They had their own high-quality recording studio (and starting in 1966 - 2 of them) running 24 hours a day, by many people on salary, or who would only make significant money IF the records would hit. So, they didn't waste a lot of money on recording. Motown staff erased hundreds of tapes of failed recording, and used them again on new projects (much to our chagrin for what interesting recordings we'd love to hear now that are lost forever). And having their artists and tryout artists recording so many different songs, produced a wonderful atmosphere of opportunity for Motown's contracted artists and budding, Motown singer "wannabees", which continuously attracted Detroit's young singing and songwriting talent to want to "hang out" there, and that's how several singers and songwriters were "discovered" by Motown's producers between 1961 and 1970. They had so much going on in the mid-to-late '60s that it was very difficult to keep track of it all. An example of that is that Marv Johnson recorded songs in Studios 1 and 2 for 3 whole years After his singing artist contract expired and was NOT renewed!!! His contract ended in 1969, and he was recording there until 1972. Apparently, no one told him or his producers. He still had a clerical job there, but was also still writing songs and recording them, and several came up for quality Control review for release. They might have issued a record on him without realising that he wasn't under artist contract. We've found at least 3 late '60s unreleased recordings by him, which have been released on CD and digital file. If he was still being recorded until 1972, we may have a few more to discover (unless the only copies were dubbed over. Could Motown have been more "critical" (efficient) at earlier stages of the artistic process? - Yes, BUT, in the long run, we'd likely have lost many good recordings we savour now. And there's no way of knowing whether they'd have made larger or smaller net profits because of that difference, in the long run. Berry sold his company (minus Jobete Music Co.) for 61 million Dollars in 1988 (which would equate to $163 million today). So, I really think the way they did things worked out well. My only truck with it is the loss of original master tapes that were erased and/or dubbed over).

Is that along with the vocals, or just the background tracks?

It SHOULD, given that it was recorded for Spector's artists, Bonnie & The Treasures.

Yes, that's it. I have the DJ record and bought it when it was out. Brenda didn't have a single artist record for A&M. And she absolutely WAS under exclusive contract with Motown as a singer at that time. I think Patrice was still under contract with Motown as well, because she was still recording songs for them as late as late fall 1965. So, even if The Remarkables' Frank Wilson was not under exclusive writing or singing artist contract with Motown at that time, he was working as a songwriter for Jobete, and either used the alias to protect Brenda and Patrice, or because he didn't want Marc or Hal to find out he was working on other projects, as he was concurrently working on important projects for them. The latter seems a lot less likely, however.

I've seen many copies of the Chester St. Anthony as the WDJ, and NEVER seen a store-stocker of it. and I've seeonly the ONE store-stocker of the Chester Fields, but NO DJ issue of that one. I wonder if A&M just changed the artist name for pressing the commercial issue, at Wilson's request (for some reason that we'll probably never learn?

I think that Frank Wilson of The Remarkables may have also worked at Jobete music, L.A. near its tail end. If he didn't, he worked with several of its regulars on non-Motown L.A. projects. The South L.A. Soul Music community was pretty tight. They all new each other, similar to the situation in Detroit. I can only guess about why he changed his name with A&M, and I'm guessing that even if it had no relationship to an exclusive contract for the same type of services, it was done to avoid Hal Davis and Marc Gordon finding out he was doing that. Brenda Holloway also had a record out with A&M at that time, and I also seem to remember that she, Patrice, and Pat Hunt (who were one of the two main girls background groups at Jobete) were a girls group who had a record out on A&M (those 2 Brenda Holloway references may be one in the same (I've forgotten). I'm guessing the 2 A&M releases were connected. Maybe Wilson changed his name for that release just to protect The Holloway sisters, as BOTH WERE under artist contract to Motown at that time? And I'm SURE that you are correct that credits for the 2 Frank Wilsons have been confused MANY times, as I've seen at least 6 or 7 instances, just that I can recall off the top of my head. I'm sure I've seen several more that I don't remember offhand.

Hi Peter, I've sent you a PM. (Not a Prime Minister!)

I only ever saw an advert of his in "Goldmine" (as shown above). But that was a few years after I met him. I met him at a used record store in Hollywood ("Music Man Murray's").

Thanks for posting that great article about John. It brings back a lot of memories. A lot of people were curious about him. And now they know more. So his father was a Newfy! That checks out with him telling me his parents were British, as Newfoundland didn't become part of Canada until 1949. I had thought John lived mostly on his record sales and only had a few forays into the recording industry. I never realised John did so much work for record companies (especially in publicity). We shared something in common other than record collecting. I worked as an economics consultant for 1st Nation tribes in Canada, and Native American tribes in USA for about 10 years. And I got involved a bit in their politics, attending some pow wows and other meetings. We knew some of the same people. It's a very small World! Too bad he died so young. But, unlike a lot of people in "The Western Rat Race", John lived his life the way he wanted. And that's to his credit.

It's DEFINITELY NOT The Soul and Power Records' Frank Wilson, and sounds VERY MUCH like The Remarkables' Frank Wilson. My vote is for the latter.

Thanks again Graham. This one's sound is a bit muddy, making it hard to understand Fred in spots. But, it's still great to hear it. According to what Fred said about "Baby Don't You Weep", that they recorded it "Downtown"(at Specialty) around the same time as Wilson Pickett's "Let Me Be your Boy" and he talked about Wilbur Golden, I still think they were both started out as Correc-Tone projects, but as told to me back during the '60s, Golden ran short of cash and allowed Bateman to shop the Bridges recording in New York, in lieu of Bateman's back salary owed him by Golden (because of the large amount of money he spent on building their recording studio and having had to pay back money he owed Ed Wingate. Bridges mentioned that Bateman shopped it along with other recordings he was talking to Lloyd Price's Double- L (Bateman finally made a deal with them in '63). So, it sounds to me that the Versatile pressing came out in spring 1962 (which is when i bought it), rather than late 1961, the period you state that Columbia's East Coast pressing plant indicate. My memory tells me that Correc-Tone 501-503 and The Fred Bridges Versatile records came out around the same time in spring 1962.