Robbk

That's my favourite song by him.

I don't know the exact date, or even year, that the "But It's Alright" East Coast ex-songwriting partner of Sidney Barnes, J.J. Jackson died. I remember the announcement, that seems to have been about 10-12 years ago; but as the years have been flying by at supersonic speed lately, I could be very wrong.

I never knew that. That must be the source of the biographer's error.

Sorry to hear this. To me, 83 is too young (being almost 80, myself). It seems like I remember him having still been making appearances and singing not that long ago. But the years have passed by very quickly lately.

Yes The L.A. J.J. Jackson, who sang with The Jackals, and had a Prelude release and sang for San Diego's Musertte Records was June Jackson on Imperial. The J.J. Jackson who sang "But It's Alright was an East Coaster his whole life. Apparently, the person who wrote the obituary, tried to get cute, proving how "clever" he was, by adding the bit about J.J. Jackson also having a big hit with "But It's Alright", which he "knew" from his own experience, but thought his research effort somehow missed.

Balk and Micahnik's Embee Productions had a production agreement with Big Top Records that included songwriting(Micahnik, Balk, Maron McKenzie, Tom King, Nat Turner, Johnny Mitchell, C.P. Spencer, etc.), Embee-Detroit discovered and signed artists (Del Shannon, Bobbie Smith, The Dreamgirls, Willie Jones, The Royal Jokers, Kenny Martin, Vivian Jones, Spencer Stirling (AKA C.P. Spencer), The Parakeets, and Mickey Denton). In addition, the deal included Embee producing New York artists contracted to Big Top Records (such as Don and Juan). Embee could use their usual Detroit recording studios, arrangers, and session musicians, or bring their Detroit artists to use Big Top's usual New York studios for recording. In fact, I'm wondering whether Balk referred (introduced) Big Top to Detroit Producer and recording studio owner, Ernie Stratton, as they sometimes used Stratton's recording studios to record their demos. They knew that Ernie was looking for a record label deal for his group, The Dynamics, as Big Top made a production deal with Stratton on them in 1963, during a very active time in Balk's deal with Embee, and that was the only other production deal Big Top made with Detroit production companies or labels. So, I think there's a good chance that Balk did Ernie that favour. After Embee's deal with Big Top ended in late 1963, they still dealt with New York labels, getting a deal with Mr. Peacock/Mr. Peke Records for Royal Jokers' lead, Willie Jones, and had gotten a deal for The Volumes with Old Town, and later, for The Volumes with Jubilee Records. And yes, Balk got Bobbie Smith (without The Dream Girls), her deal with American Arts, as part of a similar deal to that with Big Top, which also included production on The Volumes, Patty Jerome, and a couple other acts.

The situation with Harry Balk and Irving Micahnik labels isn't quite so simple. There was a fairly long period in which their production and marketing operated both in Detroit and New York. In Balk's and Micahnik's earliest period in the music business, their songwriting crew operated in Detroit, and they found the bulk of their singing artists in Detroit, and they did their demo recording there, as well. But they generally did their final recording of their featured singers, background singers, and instrumentals in New York. A significant portion of their early Embee Productions' final recordings during 1959-to early 1963, on their own Twirl and Storm Records, and certainly those on New York's Big Top Records, were done in New York. They even had office for Twirl and Storm Records operated in New York for a few years. They took several of their singers, like Del Shannon, Willie Jones, and Bobbie Smith and The Dream Girls to New York to record them there. Many of their Big Top recordings sound, to me like New York recordings, with simpler instrumentals on which I hear NO identifiable Detroit session players or recognisable Detroit recording studio acoustics. I think some of Bobbie Smith and The Dream Girls' final Big Top vocals were recorded in Detroit, and some in New York. During 1963, and from 1964 on, I think Embee Productions were ALL recorded in Detroit (even all their cuts issued on Pittsburgh's American Arts). "Now He's Gone" sounds a lot like a Detroit song by its writing (by Vicki Detroiters Tom King, Maron McKenzie, and Irv Micahnik). But the recording instrumental is on the fence for me. It is difficult to tell. It's simple enough trackwise, to have me believe that it was a New York recording. And I don't hear any identifiable sounds of Detroit session players on it. It very well might be a New York recording, but it also could be a Detroit recording. One thing I CAN say is that the location of its recording CAN'T be determined by assuming that ALL Big Top releases' cuts were recorded in New York, because Big Top operated in New York; and that all Harry Balk and Irv Micahnik's Embee Productions' recordings were recorded in Detroit, because those men were originally from Detroit, and resided their during their partnership, that ALL their productions were recorded in Detroit. So, I wouldn't want to bet my house on whether the final recordings on these 2 cuts on this release were recorded either in New York or in Detroit. It might even have been split, with The Girls' vocals recorded in Detroit, and the instrumentals in New York. Given that it has been written that this was recorded in New York, IF I had a gun to my head, I might well bet that the instrumentals were recorded in New York, and Bobbie and The Dream Girls' vocals were recorded in Detroit. But really, there's no way of knowing for sure unless we can find written documentation, or a recorded interview with a person who worked with Embee at the time (Company Partner, songwriter, arranger, recording engineer, etc.).

DEFINITELY a Boot!

Happy Christmas, Chanukkah and New Year to Everyone!

The name Darlene Huff is definitely a name I've seen several times, and it rings a bell that it was connected to Detroit. And I think I saw it on records, too (but maybe just a writing credit?) I can't remember any solo records by her offhand. Maybe I saw her name listed as a group member?

I see now that I mixed Joyce Harris up (conflated) with Chicago's Joyce Davis. I thought that Chollie Maye was an African-American. I see that Joyce Harris was not. But the main reason I think they were not the same person was that Harris' voice sounded somewhat fuller and deeper to me. I can't imagine that she was a Jazz singer. But based on Harris' voice, I COULD imagine that she was.

I've seen it before a couple times but the normal black on white background is hundreds of times more common. But the fonts are the same. I assume that this yellow pressing was from a different pressing plant from the ones they usually used in LA (Monarch), Midwest(RCA?), and East Coast (all of which were white, if I remember correctly.

I've never seen a store stocker of "I Can't Get Away From Your Love". I think it was only pressed on a DJ issue, if I remember correctly. I know I have it in some form from 1965, because it's on one of my mid '60s cassette tapes that I made off my records.

I have a few records by Joyce Harris. I think there were 2 Soul singers named Joyce Harris. One had a strong voice, and sang on records produced in Chicago, New York and Nrew Orleans, and The other sang on records produced in L.A., and New York, had a "lighter" delivery, and less "full" voice, who sang Girls Group type songs and sang as a single artist as well as lead singer of The Chevelles. I thing that Chollie Maye must have been the one who sang with The Chevelles. Their voices sound a lot more alike than the Chicago singer and Chollie Maye. The only Slades I know well were an all Male Texas DooWop group from the 1950s. What label was Chollie Maye's Slades group on? I seem to faintly remember an early '60s Slades record on an L.A. label.

Quality is in the ear of the listener. Although I like both songs and recordings, I like the Jimmy Mack song much more, and would pay more than double for it, were rarity not a factor, and fate would determine that I could only ever possess one of the two. Of course, given that I am a general Soul music fan, as opposed to an NS fan, and don't just limit its value to that on the NS scene, and melody and singing skill, and natural gift of voice count more for me than the song's beat and the resultant abilities to dance to it, my preference probably doesn't count much in terms of your quality criteria. And maybe the original "perception" among collectors, that the Jimmy Mack was the rarer issue, and a large find of several boxes of it many years later, with them not disseminated all at once, caused the information that there are now more of it known to not have been absorbed (realised) by most collectors. I, myself, had seen People's Choice a few times back in the late 60s, years before I knew Jimmy Mack even existed, and at first it was thought to be super rare. And that difference (impression) had been in my mind until your comment in this thread, which triggered in my mind, the more recent memory, that, "yes, come to think of it, I have seen more of The Macks around lately."

Why doesn't someone ask Richard why he thinks they are the same person. Who told him that, or where did he read it. I remember several rumours that got around to so many people that many people believed that they must have been true. But they could have ALL originated with a couple collectors surmising (guessing) that from a falsely-interpreted clue, or a coincidence that made it seem unlikely to not be true - such as 4 or 5 clues lining up almost perfectly. Think of the case of the 2 Frank Wilsons both working for Motown at the same time with both having been working in L.A. and starting their songwriting and producing careers there. I can't count how many times we've asked Detroiters who were active participants in the music industry during the '60s about obscure artists, and they even remember working on the recording session in question, and still didn't remember, or ever even know the artist's real name or the names of individual group members, etc. It's always great when many, many years after the first time searching for the answers to similar questions, one of us actually finds irrefutable documentation of the true answer. Of course, the further in years that we move away from those times, the fewer of these late true answers will be coming forth. Many of these questions will never be answered. I've forgotten a LOT myself, that I've never written down.

Just as I remembered, Jimmy Soul Clark's singing voice has a heavy nasal quality, and he sings in a slightly higher register than Jimmy Mack, who has a deeper quality, sort of in the background. I think the latter could do well in baritone parts, whereas Jimmy Clark would have strained to get down there. I really don't think they are the same person.

My memory tells me that Jimmy "Soul" Clark's and Jimmy Mack's voices are different enough to be confident that they are not the same person. I'll listen to all those cuts again to make sure. I think any connection between them is just from collectors' guesses that became rumours.

Never seen a 45 THAT far off centre!!!

I agree. If that project was completed, and released commercially, we'd have heard about it just from the hundreds of forum-active posters on this forum and Soulful Detroit, alone, at least one of them would have brought that to our attention, not to mention a '60s Soul fan on X, or Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, or even Tick Tock, would have brought it up. It's a shame that it didn't come to fruition. The trailer looked very professional, and made it appear that it would be an outstanding film, well worth watching.

This is like the US 1950s and early '60s TV show "Name That Tune". Contestants bet on how many seconds would pass before they could name the song. "I can name that tune in 3 seconds!" Unfortunately, they only used Pop songs when I saw it during the 1950s. No obscure R&B, Blues, Gospel, or even Jazz.

2nd from left, is Lee David, clearly an African-American.

I've never seen a picture of Lee David, and there's no way to tell from his voice. I'm not a big fan of his singing because he's too "nasal" for my taste. But, in my experience, many (if not most) good singers want to sing in a variety of different styles (Pop, Soul, Gospel, Blues, Jazzy vocals), just as they might want to test their skills or limits singing in several different keys, or singing both falsetto and baritone. Gary Sherman and Jimmy Briggs worked on many Pop-oriented productions, but also blended Soul with a Poppish accent. Lee David's "Temptation's Callin'..." was certainly aimed at both the main-stream Poppish Soul and crossover market, while "Gypsy Woman seems to me to have been aimed mainly at the straight Soul market. So Lee David was a "Soul Singer". He could have gotten a great applause at The Apollo singing his version Of Gypsy Woman, whether or not he was classified as a "White Man" or a "Black Man".

Good to know the answer to this. Johnnie Mae was a big fan of The Blues. This could well have been a Blues singer friend of hers, or one referred to Johnnie Mae by a friend, hoping Johnnie Mae could use her influence to get a record deal for it with a record company, (and nothing ever happened with it).

I thought Johnnie Mae's Blue Rock recordings sounded more like Chicago than New York. This one sounds New Yorkish to me. Also, this Bluesy cut, "Mamma's Gonna Stop You". Doesn't sound, at all like Ollie McLaughlin's or his writing group's (Sharon McMahon, Maron McKenzie)'s writing (music OR lyrics). I'd be very, very surprised to find out this was one of her Blue Rock session recordings. To me, it sounds more like her Bluesy songs written by herself and Timmy Shaw.