Illusive

Paul Varisco is a gem and a great price.

No soundfile that I can find, but here's the flip of the 70's take which is sublime

Two versions on Lundy I believe. The 60's beater and much harder 70's with a great flip too.

Great spot.

Got the same response in not so many words. Brass necked and sad. Puts items up for sale on a global web site supported by some very flowery descriptions and then acts the innocent and all of a sudden has adopted the Royal "we". He knows he's breaking the law selling counterfeit goods on eBay which is a blatant abuse of the site rules. Hes not alone and he's simply profiteering whilst there's so many daft sods prepared to buy all manner of pressings at silly prices. Bizarrely I can see the attraction for an opportunist not connected to the scene in any way, to see this bootlegging game as a way of making some quick cash, which is what I suspected was the case when I set this topic rolling. How wrong was I !

"Sen Alan" about says it all doesn't it? Not much of an anagram and confirms what I've been told by two different people today already. So the rabbits out of the hat. Sad state of affairs really. Maybe not on the scale of counterfeiting "45's just to share with friends and not for selling on" but none the less a poor show from a long standing member of the soul fraternity whose shot himself in the foot.

Pressings / bootlegs etc are part of all of our history and we all did the same thing with our pocket money / wages in the 70's when the only way for most of us to get the big tunes of that period was on a pressing or uk reissue. We knew what we were buying and didn't care, because for the majority of the time we weren't being conned. Sell away and make a tidy profit but at least do it in a way that doesn't offer the pretence of legitimacy. That's not the gripe here. this is an act of deception and he's making fraudulent claims. Hell ? We're living in it already, but let's not bring religion or politics into this other than to say hopefully Thatchers still burning brightly. Thankfully nobody has brought the royalty issue into play, and it's unconnected here. The seller is anything but naive. He knows exactly what he's doing and if the information I've been given is accurate then the seller is a man who's been involved in the scene for over 40 years as a DJ and promoter of some very big events !!!! Before anybody asks me to name him I won't. Unless I can ratify the facts. And you're bang on with your summing up. Things are never quite what they seem, they could be much worse.

Just had a response from him, feckin comedian too Please supply your name and address so that we can... New message from: dreamweaver66 (224) Please supply your name and address so that we can formally and legally respond Thank you PS a "bootleg" technically is a unauthorised live recording and our listings are not live recordings. Reply YOU: Your descriptions on each disc that you have for sale make for interesting reading. Complete fantasy of course and totally without merit or legal justification. They're bootlegs which violate copyright legislation and your daft statement to eBay about them being legitimate second issues for which copyright duty has been paid is nonsense, but I've no need to tell you that as you already know it. If you wanna Sell bootlegs then at least do it without the pretence to legitimacy and making such bloody ludicrous statements. Please feel free to post my comment on your sales. Thanks and Merry Xmas Northern Soul .. Tobi Legend ..Time will Pass you By c/w Heartbreaker .. Mala DJ Current bid: £91.66 Auction ends 15 Dec, 2016 13:53 GMT Bids: 18 Postage: £2.50 Place bid Only purchases on eBay are covered by the eBay purchase protection programmes. Asking your trading partner to complete a transaction outside of eBay is not allowed. Email reference ID: [#a01-byqfefntam#]_[#af65b0bcccf74da59e34d0a469259e9f#] We don't check this mailbox, so please don't reply to this message. If you have a question, go to Help & Contact. eBay sent this message to Gavin Thompson (illusiveoldsoul). Learn more about account protection. eBay is committed to your privacy. Learn more about our privacy policy and user agreement. This email was sent by eBay Europe S.à r.l., which may use affiliates to provide eBay services. If you are a non-EU resident, please refer to the user agreement for the contact data of your contracting party. ©2016 eBay Inc., eBay Europe S.à r.l. 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg

And I've reported him too for what it's worth for the Tobi Legend 45, and maybe if lots of others did the same it might register with eBay that people are becoming pissed off with these no-mark tossers.

In light of his daft spiel I thought it'd be nice to ask him a question, and thought how festive it would be if everyone else followed suit Your descriptions on each disc that you have for sale make for interesting reading. Complete fantasy of course and totally without merit or legal justification. They're bootlegs which violate copyright legislation and your daft statement to eBay about them being legitimate second issues for which copyright duty has been paid is nonsense, but I've no need to tell you that as you already know it. If you wanna Sell bootlegs then at least do it without the pretence to legitimacy and making such bloody ludicrous statements. Please feel free to post my comment on your sales. Thanks and Merry Xmas

Whilst ever there are mugs (or very naive buyers) out there prepared to pay for bootlegs, the twats that sell them openly are gonna prosper. This guy states that his discs are "Reissues" and supports his claim for some degree of legitimacy by stating: "Note to EBAY this is a legal Used Reissue Copy that relevant Copyright duty has been paid at its original purchase". You couldn't make this shit up and his patter seems to be working with some of the bids being placed. https://www.ebay.com/sch/dreamweaver66/m.html?item=162315437658&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Hi Jackie Sorry to hear about your loss, but if you realistically hope to achieve that kind of price for the records you're gonna need to list them as I can't imagine anyone on here is gonna by 500 records blind for that price without any indication of what's in the box.

If only this sale had been on eBay then it wouldn't have been quite so bad, but it wasn't, it was on the sales forum on here ?

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232139855455

Surprisingly the lady in question appears to have pedigree, despite this bloody awful 45 ! https://www.vocalgroupharmony.com/4ROWNEW/CommonSense.htm

There's been some great observations and comments throughout to my original post (no pun intended) and mostly constructive. So glad it didn't descend into a mud slinging competition as many so often seem to do. As I said from the outset everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if it's in support of criminal activity as Phil rightly states. The scene has always walked a delicate line when it comes to acting within the law, and which was part of the original attraction for many, as with most youth cultures, taking the opportunity to stick two fingers up at the establishment. My original post was simply to highlight the issue of some lowlife profiteers setting out to deliberately fool innocent collectors by reproducing counterfeit discs, which look very close to the original (yes I know the repro has a solid centre, but only after I checked it against a popsike sale). I don't have an issue with boots, pressings, emi's, Etc. I, like many of us have owned a few in my time and also some very questionable CD's and LP's too, but they clearly weren't the real McCoy ! In my opinion these counterfeiters reproducing Grapevine 45's (which many of us bought from new for less than a quid and are part of our history) are the lowest of the low. They're trying to screw innocent folk over, or supporting Johnny wannabe DJ to try and fool their audience, and that ain't right. Its not gonna stop, in fact in the current climate it'll probably become a lot bigger issue. But it's good to know that SS and other social media sites provide a platform to expose these feckers antics and hopefully make some folks think twice before throwing their hard earned notes on some very dubious products.

OMG you know him. That's Tim, typical cave dweller and loves his animals. You're just as likely to find him rooting around cages in a zoo as you are at a nighter, if not more so. Id love to spend the next three days explaining the nuances of the scene as was and is and the link to boots, pressings, emi's, issues, ovo etc etc but I really don't have time. But there are stacks of books out there that could set you on the right track (no pun intended). Here's a couple of Brownies to set you off https://www.raresoulvinyl.co.uk/wcy/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Northern-Soul-Price-Guide/dp/0953929191

I'd quite like to see you grill Browny over the subject of pressings and illegitimate releases he's a Goldmine of information I'll get me coat ........

Oh the feckin' irony of it. Below his sales patter the seller has posted this little blurb (check the bit in the brackets) PLEASE DO NOT PAY UNTIL OFFICIAL INVOICE IS RECEIVED from SOULTIME RECORDS LTD. ANY PAYMENT METHOD OTHER THAN PAYPAL PREFERRED (due to recent high incidence of fraudulent transactions).

Took me three years to pick one up. £100+ all day long. I think eBay is your best option even with the big shipping costs. Good luck with your search. Gav

It's a forum to discuss everything related to soul, and the bedrock of the rare soul scene is the 45. If you're happy with YouTube, Mixcloud I've no issue with that, I make use of it too, it's convenient and available globally and your not trying to make a quick buck or fool anyone. But my initial point was and is that these low life bootlegging scumbags are now trying to "counterfeit" 45's with the intention of deceiving unsuspecting punters, or are satisfying the divvies (love that saying) who want to pretend they own the real McCoy when playing out a box of similar such "fakes". This really is a new low though, copying reissues ffs. As you appear to be relatively new on here you might not be aware that within the past year there's been a high profile scam running where a number of high value 45's suffered a similar fate with the sole intention of pulling the wool over every bodies eyes. Thankfully a savvy few got wise to this scam and exposed the scoundrels involved. Is there any difference between that and this (money aside) ? No is there feck. £5 or £2k, the outcomes the same. The copyright issue is a mute point, as writers and artists don't receive royalties from the "original" discs we buy and sell. Most of em are "used" and 50 years old so that's simply mot going to happen. These boots clearly won't effect you, nor will you ever understand what it feels like to own an original disc which you've spent good money on and take great pleasure from. Vinyl porn - yeah baby. Reissues are a completely different matter. Thank God for em. Kent, Soul Junction, Grapevine 2000, Secret Stash have given us, and continue to give us some of the greatest unreleased music I've ever heard, so kudos to Ady Crossdale, Dave Welding, Gary Cape and Mark Bicknell et al.

You're entitled to you opinion, but I completely disagree with it. I don't give two hoots about oneupmanship. I buy vinyl for my pleasure, not to impress anyone else or to have bragging rights. I'm not a member of the soul police or have any pretence towards joining "the force". But I do care about the integrity and history of black music and collect many genres and relish the pursuit and capture of original vinyl. Only a true collector would understand that desire, sentiment and obsession. As for ktf ! Give over. Buying Counterfiet goods is hardly keeping the faith now is it.

We've lived with them throughout the scenes history, but these bootlegging bar stewards really are beginning to piss me off now. I can live with the dodgy boots & pressings that don't pretend to be anything other than what they are. When there's no attempt to deceive by cloning labels, people know what they're buying and make an informed choice to buy or avoid. But this cloning business is becoming crazy. I've just come across this disc on eBay and am completely gobsmacked. UK Grapevine reissues are now been booted dfs !!! The crazy thing is I thought I dropped on a bargain, posted by someone who was trying to offload some old 45's until I saw it was a "buy it now" and then noticed that more copies were available.!! Thankfully the penny dropped before I clicked "Buy". https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORTHERN-DOUBLE-SIDER-LESTER-TIPTON-plus-THE-MASQUERADERS-LOW-STARTING-PRICE-/282226564911?hash=item41b6039f2f:g:0OYAAOSwtnpXnMvU Whatever next ?

Pm'd ya re: Dynamics