boba

The johnny moore thing wasn't in the same deal, each person separately dished out $2000 at a separate time to the label to have their record put out. Look on dante's page: www.ohiosoulrecordings.com. The following things are Chciago: 53-41 Puzzle People "Reach For The Truth/ Make You Mine" 1975 QCA-553041 6073-17 The Steelers "Disturbing Thoughts/ Love, Love, Love For Me" 1976 (Chicago group) 7031-21 Unforbidden Fruit "The Work Song/ The Laughing Song" 1977 QCA-703121 (Chicago group) 7081-21 Bill Watts "I Got Jesus/ The Hole That Holds The Bones" 1977 QCA-708121 (gospel) 7113 Moore Brothers Band "A Salute To Roots/ Inst." 1977 QCA-7113 (Chicago group) 771206 Little Larry Hudson "Land Of Dog Eat Dog/ Strong Constitution" 1977 QCA-771206 (Chicago artist) 771220 Delores Barrett Campbell and the Barrett Sisters "No Ways Tired / Talkin 'Bout A Good Time" 1977 780326 Johnny Moore "Hold On A Little Bit Longer/ Lies And Alibis" 1976 QCA-780326 8061-34 Pino and Kambon "A Soalin/ Maybe Stars" 1978 QCA-806134 sic

They talk about how they got onto the label in my interview. Many Chicago acts appeared on the label. The label was a total scam, not even a custom label where you had to pay to press it... AMG had this thing going where they marketed themselves as a real label (supposedly with songwriters, a band, etc.) and you had to pay about $2000 to have your record pressed and supposedly 'promoted'. But they never actually promoted anything. The puzzle people told me how they had set up in a holiday inn, advertised, and you met with them and auditioned for them. Specifically with the steelers 45, the tracks were already recorded (and the flip already appeard on their own Baba label), AMG just pressed it. They still had to pay $2000.

that's one of the hit records on the label, right? not rare. I have the freeman brothers if you need a recording of it or something. I have an older doowop compilation CD called "J&S the hits of harlem" or something like that. Thanks.

cooperettes is on IDB, same label that broadway express is on, and it's the same philly group as the well known group.

I agree with your points. It might not 'crash' as in disappear in a day. The market might change in a relatively short period of time all of a sudden, though -- e.g. when collections get dumped on the market all of a sudden. Also, I think it's good to differentiate (as I think you are doing) between the market for 45s and the music itself. What's disturbing to me, however, is that many people do know about even pre-war blues, such as Robert Johnson. But very few people now know about doowop, for example, except for a small number of hit records such as "in the still of the night" or "stay in my corner". It's hard for us to understand how music so powerful and relevant to us might not be appreciated by others. I'm sure doowop collectors felt the same way, but looked what happened to them. I even think 50s music sounds 'foreign' to me in a way that is hard to connect with. I think maybe the reason more people know about blues is that rock critics and people who like rock music enjoy it more, have a closer connection, and feel it is more relevant to what they like. I'm worried that younger people have a problem connecting with say, 60s soul music, in a similar way -- e.g. it is more foreign to them given the way that music has changed over the years. I hope that people continue to enjoy the types of music I like and that it doesn't die. And even if they do, however, that doesn't mean that there will be a sustained market for 45s. Thanks.

Dave, I'm 29 years old, I started collecting when I was about 16, the only way I have the collection I do is that I'm a pretty aggressive collector. Most people my age have never even had a turntable and don't know how to use one. The newer generation of kids will not grow up even using CD players. I hear stories about mythical soul parties but I really don't see a 'scene' in the US at all. I know maybe 4-5 younger (under 50) soul record collectors in Chicago. There is a monthly party at some club in Chicago where hipsters come out and dance to soul music, but none of those people are collectors. That hardly constitutes the kind of market equivalent to what there is today with all the older collectors and the UK northern scene -- even if in other foreign cities there are many more people, it won't be on the same scale, meaning that the large number of people who have records now to sell won't find an equivalent market. Second of all, I agree with your point about doowop records sounding 'foreign' to older people, which is one of the reasons the soul market will die out. Most of the younger people you are talking to are now more into late 70s and even 80s sounds, the 60s sounds sound more foreign to them. Older music is more distant and always less relevant to older people. People like me got into soul music via hiphop and sampling, which doesn't even exist in the same way anymore. Also, no one can explain to me how a younger person can even get into the music now that it's so expensive. There needs to be a supply of $5-$10 records so people can build up a collection before they start spending $500 on a record. I'm actually agreeing with all the people saying to collect because they like the music and not as an investment because I think it will crash, by the way. I personally like finding unknown, not valuable records, as I can wait until the market crashes to buy four figure records. Maybe the market will crash after the people here have sold their collections and retired, but I don't see how it's possible for it to not crash. Even if some younger people somewhere are getting into the music, it's clearly not at a level that can replace the existing fans.

I definitely think the market will crash. First of all, all you have to do is look at the doowop scene for evidence. The people who the music was relevant too are dying, their collections are being dumped on the market for the few remaining buyers, and people can get the rarest of the rare doowop 45s on ebay for 1/10th of previous values. I'm really not seeing younger people getting into collecting in the kinds of numbers that are going to replace the current generation of collectors. The high prices of 45s makes that impossible too -- you used to be able to get 45s for $1-$5, apart from the 'known' rarities, now previously cheap records are expensive. There will always be some market, but the thing that will make the values crash is the market in the future vs. the market now. I also don't understand how prices could get higher than they are now, it's already impossible for anyone to be able to afford any 45s.

All DJ copies are on Twilight, all issues are on Twinight, the label name change happened exactly at that point. It's the chilites singing backup on this record, by the way.

no backing group on the henry lumpkin 45, though... one of the things that makes the timothy wilson 45s better

$720 for a VG- copy actually

I have the david morris record, it doesn't look like the same label as the joe perkins 45.

I met the guy who plays the out-of-tune piano on the ringleaders track a few weeks ago, his name is Larry Nestor, there's apparently an article about him in this month's "juke blues" magazine. I don't know any possible way the temptones would get a backing track from onederful.

I was just saying that they came out before his buddah 45s. I hope you feel better.

Tony, as Mark pointed out, he had 2 45s on veep, before his buddah 45s.

I must be wrong, I found the ebay auction I was referring to on popsike, this was the text: Click to view supersized image Inconquerables - "For Your Love" b/w "Wait For Me" (Flodavieur 803). This release has a great group cut on one side that features a strong up-tempo beat and incredible soul that is made for dancing. Flip is a doo-wop cut with strong oohs & ahhs and even a recitation in the middle. I know little about this record. I picked it up in a junk shop in Iowa back more than 20 years ago and have had it in my collection ever since. I've seen a record listed by this group as Flodavieur 606 (and that number appears on this label on the Wait For Me side - F-605 for "For Your Love" and F-606 for the "Wait For Me" side), but the information I saw had "Wait For Me" and another song (not "For Your Love") listed. I've also seen 606 listed as being on yellow wax, but this copy is plain old black vinyl. Is it rare? I don't know, but I'll leave that up to you. I really won't mind if it doesn't sell - I'll just put it back in my collection for another decade or two. Record is in VG condition with some writing on the label. Postage & insurance will be paid by purchaser.

didn't the inconquerables come out TWICE on the label with one common side between the two releases? I'm pretty sure I've seen the other one for sale on ebay like 4-5 years ago.

the tobi bullard isn't a different take, it's just lower fidelity than the lyrics so it sounds different. plus it was never a real release anyways, even if it was somehow associated with the label, so it probably shouldn't be included.

I'd say the sammy campbell because it comes up for sale much less frequently than the others you listed

phil, I responded to your message already in "all about the soul", you can read it there. The seller who had it before on ebay was joe moorehouse (I think that was his name), his ebay id is 16-33-45-78

this was her hit record, the song is actually about bondage

I just tried this and it didn't work and I ruined my record

Hi Phil: a detroit seller (I'm trying to remember the guy's name, will follow up if I do) had this on ebay about a year ago, also beat up, I think he maybe got $40 because of the condition, it is rare. I have a recording of the ballad side, it's a deep soul sounding group ballad. I don't know if there is a connection to the ambassadors on bon / reel (who are also detroit), maybe there is. It played poorly, I'm assuming the ballad side plays bad on the copy you have too since it looks beat. Thanks.

I don't think this title came out on Volt, unless it's from some non-US country or something.

My friend tracked down the label owners of a rare chicago modern record after I found a beat up copy. He got about 10 copies from the label owner. The thing was, the copies he got were thinner and slightly lighter colored labels than the copy I found. The guy definitely did not press up 10 copies to sell to my friend. Somehow there must have been two runs of the original 45 or somehow (even less likely) the 45s 'changed' however he stored the copies. Also, it's always suprising how there are alternate takes of some of the absolute rarest 45s (e.g. younger brothers), meaning that there was more than one run. I'm still not saying that the frederick hymes was not counterfeited (and I know there are shady people associated with it), I'm just saying that even if it's different, it's not necessarily not an original press. It's very difficult to know, sometimes people will even repress record with the same plates or even the same labels left over from the original run.

I also never thought the frederick hymes were counterfeits. more evidence (obviously not proof of anything, just evidence) is that many of the newer copies on the market were warped. I don't think they did this intentionally, I got one, it looks like a storage warp. Even if there is a difference between certain 'old' copies and the ones that are on the market now, that STILL wouldn't prove it is a counterfeit because many records back in the day had 1st and 2nd runs with slight differences, even extremely rare records -- for example, maybe 500 pressed and sold out, then they pressed another 500, and most of the second run sat unsold with the owner. I am NOT saying that the new copies are not counterfeits necessary, I'm just saying I'm not convinced and am interested in hearing evidence otherwise -- e.g. what the specific differences are. Pete S said something about somehow 'dating' the vinyl -- if that's possible, I guess that would be valid evidence too, although I would want to see how it was actually done and see the results myself. I do think it's funny that anytime quantity comes up people decide it's a counterfeit because it just drives the value down even more to make it accessible to people like me who aren't going to shell out 4 figures for an original copy of a record.