boba

times square records has the VIPs "flashback" M- on gemm.com for $25

yes, see my later post, I called him back with the info about the acetates and he remembered "win you over" and "all of my life". Thanks for the info about the bell sound acetates. My original post was not intended to call into question the authenticity of the acetates as somehow having a different group on each side as I originally was under the impression that there was a separate acetate (possibly as "the four temples") that had "this is goodbye" / "all of my life" on it. If he didn't remember either of those two tracks and it didn't say the ringleaders anywhere, it probably meant it wasn't the same group. I had remembered Manship having something different for auction and I wanted to get the true details on it so i could call him back. Thanks everyone for the details and especially thanks to the people who sent me win you over so I could send it to him on a CD. Thanks.

well she definitely WAS a chicago artist, and she had a second 45 on red balloon written by eddie sullivan, who I interviewed a couple of weeks ago. I know some people that knew her but don't have any other interesting information to tell you...

I know it was bootlegged on a couple of LA cds. I have to send him a CD, I only have the released 45 and the giattino boot with 'all of my life'. Does anyone have a recording of 'win you over' that they could send me to send to him?

I should have him on the phone on my show eventually, although I will wait until he's home as I've harassed a sick old man at the hospital enough times at this point. Thanks.

Hard record, from Cleveland, did you get the one Joe Giattino was selling on ebay? This is the same group as the elements on Saru and the moving violation on atlantic. I paid like $300 for a beat up copy a while back, the track is sort of weird because of the stereo mix. I have a nice sweet soul record on the label by the inner circles (which also has a psychedelic funk instrumental side). Other titles on the label are listed at www.ohiosoulrecordings.com

I just called Vandy Lane in the hospital ... he did remember "Win you over" and "All of my life". When my friend talked to him, he must have gotten confused with both the "four temples" thing as well as the "this is goodbye" thing. Anyways, he said that the group was from Saginaw but just came to chicago to try to get a recording deal. He said that "let's start over" made it to number 18 on the WVON charts. Aside from those two extra cuts, he said the group never recorded anything else and just went back to Saginaw and soon broke up. I asked about other groups from Saginaw, he said that the Darrells (that did that song "so tenderly") are from Saginaw (I know it says St. Louis in the label, but he specifically remembered the song) and said that LJ Reynolds and Stevie Wonder were from Saginaw. I hopefully will interview Vandy in a few weeks after he gets out of the hospital. He doesn't have copies of the acetates in case anyone was wondering...

It is the blue label. I'm pretty sure the blue and yellow label are both local detroit.

the bernard williams has a different font though, it's curved, the 70s John Anderson represses have the straight harthon with an orange label. There was a thread about this maybe a year ago with scans of everything.

what is the source of the listing? it doesn't have the doll face 45.

I will say that despite having all chicago names on the record, that I have never found that record in Chicago and it definitely didn't get any play in Chicago. I will ask Gene Barge about it the next time I talk to him.

No, they were just a vocal group. I actually know the guy who played the out of tune piano on "baby what has happened", he was a mar-v-lus writer (actually a white guy) who had nothing to do with the group. Thanks to the people (especially Garethx) who emailed me detailed information, I will call the guy back and let people know how he responds to the more accurate information (for example, apparently 'this is goodbye' has nothing to do with them, as stated above). Thanks.

OK, then that clarifies that point. Either way, I assume the group is probably black given he's black and his dad was in the group, I'm just saying that it's not a 100% certainty. Thanks.

thanks. I got the "you've got the power" cut on some british single and that actually does sound like the falcons. The firestones cut sounds very different. If the group members were involved and agree with the story I believe it though. Thanks.

I should not have repeated what the person said because people are taking it as some sort of attack on the authenticity of the acetates when I was just relaying information. All I am asking is for someone to tell me a) exactly what songs were on the acetates that were sold recently as ringleaders acetates and exactly what info was on them and where. Can someone please just tell me this so I can relay it to the original guy? Can someone please just give me this information? Also, netspeaky is saying that "this is goodbye" is definitely NOT the ringleaders? Thanks.

He did not listen to the tracks, he just heard the names. I'm not trying to get into an argument here either, I'm trying to get the actual facts of the acetates to present to him as evidence to ask further and am relaying what he said. I will hopefully get the tracks to him, he's actually in the hospital right now actually. Related to your last question, are there other cases you can think of where studio acetates contained unrelated cuts on each side (other than cases of people reusing a blank acetate side to fake an old acetate)? Thanks.

I just remembered the user ID of the "new orleans seller" that had it, it was doctorbarnabyfulton or something like that.

I would be happy with the records too given that they were original recordings and great tracks. Whether or not the records are actually by the "ringleaders" though is just what I'm trying to confirm. I'm specifically asking what the acetates said, either on the label or the sleeve, as evidence that I can run by the original guy. Also, were there cases where one side of the acetate actually contained a released ringleaders track, which would be more evidence that it was the ringleaders? Thanks.

I understand that not everything everyone says is accurate and not everyone has 100% memory. I was just relaying what he said. I also was looking for info to jog his memory. Some people do remember tiny details of specific sessions they did 40 years ago and other people can't even remember the name of their hit record. I am just trying to confirm exactly what was said on the acetates. Did they specifically say "ringleaders" on them or was it on the sleeves or some other thing like a track sheet from the session? What were the other extra tracks besides "all of my life" and "this is good bye". Also, is the 4 temples thing totally made up? Didn't someone produce a scan of an acetate that said "4 temples" on it. Thanks. One thing that is amusing to me, though, is when an artist specifically remembers something that contradicts info that collectors have made up out of thin air and then people give me the "artists don't remember anything" argument. That may be true, but their memory of what they did is more evidence than people arbitrarily deciding something is true. I am not saying that is what is happening here, I'm just saying that that has happened to me a lot when dealing with collectors.

Does anyone know if the 2nd falcons actually are the firestones as claimed in the soul harmony singles book, and if so, what evidence supports that? I think it's not mentioned in the marv goldberg thing and the records don't sound similar in any way.

So my friend finally talked to Vandy Lane, the last surviving member of the Ringleaders. Apparently a) he has never heard of the "Four Temples" and he specifically denied recording tracks called "all of my life" or "this is goodbye". So it's not looking like it's the same group. Were any of those acetates explicitly labeled as the Ringleaders by the studio or were there any more evidence besides the fact that it was the same record label (Toddlin town) and the group sounded similar? Thanks.

At least 3-4 have gone through ebay in the last year. Lew Stanley had one (possibly two actually), a new orleans seller (I forget the ID) had one, that seller who just had one up had one, and there was one more I think that I can't remember.

I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things: 1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases 2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows. 3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

I called Jan Bradley. She said that at the time Don Talty was her manager. Don had the Formal record label and was involved with releasing material on other labels. She was doing recording and songwriting but was not involved with the releasing and the business side of things. She said that Don released many of her records without her knowledge (e.g. even demos she did that were not intended to be released) and shopped her songs to other artists. She remembers writing "teenage dropout" but doesn't know anything about its release (e.g. whether it was even her or not). She hadn't heard of "paulette". I am going to mail her a recording of the record for her to listen. She did echo other people's sentiments that she didn't think that there would be one of her records released under a different name when she was already an established artist -- I even asked her if it could be because she was under contract to Chess at the time and she said that she wasn't and that wouldn't have been an issue. So it looks like this is probably not her (even though I still think it sounds like her). I will see what she says after she hears the recording. She also remembered that Pepi (another prism artist she wrote for) was from Ohio. So although it's probably not Jan Bradley, I still wouldn't assume it's the same person as on contact. Does the voice on the contact and adanti / prism record at least sound similar? Thanks.

I thought it was cheaper than that. It is hard to find though so I guess I could be wrong. I like the sweet side on it.