boba

I'm am not trying to single you out. In the same post I said I was making a generalization and not targeting you specifically. I apologize for writing "you" in that sentence, I should have written "people" or something similar. Sorry. EDIT: I edited the post you responded to not say "you"

I agree with you, that is very annoying. When stuff goes lower than the average it's a "bargain" but if stuff goes super high, that's the new price. And what makes it worse is that there's a lot of buyers who for some reason only want expensive records, so increasing the price actually increases the demand, which can up the price even more.

the magnum is fake kool and the gang sounding stuff, the LP came out on CD a while back. One of their two 45s is expensive for some reason. I have a double of the other aftermath, it's pretty cool psychedelic funk about drugs. I'm sure you know the great expectations 45, as it's the most common thing on the label and also came out on phila of soul.

people are criticizing his buyers though (which was part of the same sentence). I was also making a generalization about the frequent posts about high prices, not saying that you specifically dislike him. There are also lots of posts about people bidding too high on ebay and calling the buyers idiots. So I guess you're right in that the focus is more on hating on the buyer. Also, sometimes (again this is not directed at you) criticizing his buyers or calling them stupid is indirectly criticizing him as it implies he's taking advantage of people. But the criticism comes across as jealousy when people could be making more specific criticisms (for example, "he should not be auctioning that item because it is common and has a fixed price") rather than just ranting.

I wasn't calling you unethical, just questioning what unethical practices you were referring to since your auction seems similar. Also, you do sometimes have hyperbolic descriptions. But that's standard marketing, I think it's called "puffery". Manship does the same thing and people always make fun of the dusty groove website (probably the biggest offender). I don't think that's unethical as it's pretty standard practice and I'm sure your buyers are not stupid. I actually write really verbose descriptions, but only because I like to talk about records too much. I try to only sell records i like and if there is a record i don't like i'll actually say so in the description which is probably not the best business practice...

I don't disagree with you. That's what I meant by "overcommercialization". But that's not what people are complaining about. Also people do need to acknowledge that dealing records is a business. Sebastian, you are a very good example of someone who has built up a brand and gets much higher prices on certain things on ebay because you have regular bidders. Are you being unethical getting those high prices?

There used to be a lot more music on youtube than there is now, you used to be able to find anything. What happened was that copyright claimants got ebay to clamp down. Users with lots of violations just had their accounts closed without notice. These were users who had like 100s or 1000s of videos up so closing their account automatically removed tons of other videos that nobody claimed against.

I agree, the guitar makes it too rock for me. Any help / info on the 3rd single or group membership? Thanks a lot for your help already.

It's probably true that in a lot of genres the "holy grail" is an average record that has some history/provenance that makes it super rare and desirable. Like the beatles butcher cover. It's not even that rare, it's just built up a reputation as an important record (and has a backstory that makes it seem super rare) so it's the "grail" for certain kinds of LP collectors.

Also, I don't understand the hating on Manship or his buyers for ridiculous prices. He just acted successfully as a businessman and built up his brand so that lots of people trust him as an expert (e.g. via writing a price guide). Anyone dealing records is running a business and wants to make money. I guess you could be mad at the overcommercialization (or mad at him for other reasons) but that's not what people complain about. It often comes across as jealousy. This is not an endorsement of him or anyone else, I'm just saying that if people are gonna criticize they should have a more focused criticism on something, most of the bashing comes across as just jealousy. Also, I'm sure someone who paid 500 pounds for a solomon burke 45 doesn't care what a bunch of people on a message board think of him.

I bet you would have if you had a fancy website that had an auction. Two people bidding against each other takes you out of the equation. You can't honestly put up a 20 pound record for 500 but if you do an auction that the people are looking at (and exclusively, separate from ebay) that might happen. THAT costs a lot of money to have though.

if you had rich buyers you would have money. you can do things for free, like reach out to some of the people and ask for leads on their friends, etc. also you said you have a 1500 person sales list. Aren't there wealthy people on your list? I just started and I have a 100 person list and there's at least a couple wealthy collectors. The problem for me is that if they are actually serious collectors they will already have everything except the ultra-rarities. A different type of wealthy collector is paying a lot of money for common records -- a more casual type of collector.

John Manship is the highest profile professional soul seller, given the brand he has been able to build up. He wrote the price guide that everyone uses. How would a rich casual collector learn about Pete Smith for example? They might know one or two other dealers that they deal with regularly that they interacted with randomly, but in general, I agree with spacehopper that it's not worth their time / money to find dealers let alone records on the internet. Pete, what you should do is find a way to reach out to wealthier collectors via what they interact with. I have no idea who these people are, but say they all read a certain magazine or something. You could take out a professional looking ad.

also, i just looked at the info he gave me and there was at least one common member between the two groups, Pat Sferro. So obviously it's not the same group (sorry) but there was a connection. I'm pretty sure the lion 45 is in the northern guides btw.

also, as long as i'm naming random pa cities, i think the most famous blue eyed soul group from that area was the Jaggerz

my info came from someone who went to high school with the group or may have been in the group (it's not clear in his emails). He specifically said the Bellboys were from Aliquippa and that the 3 rivers blues band was based in Ambridge, PA. He gave me memberships, etc. but you seem to have much more specific details plus info more directly from the source so it's not like I can argue with you other than to copy and paste his emails. However, he did send me these photos which are kind of cool: He also specifically said this about the temptations ad: "PS: on that Temptations Ad I attached, there is a group called the Reverbs (from Aliquippa, PA) They recorded a song in Ohio with a group called the Fraternity Brothers called "I Could Care Less/Speak Your Name", ever hear of it." George, do you know what record he's talking about? I'm assuming it's rock, which I know little about.

I can't believe how I like every youtube clip that was posted above except the last one about pushing and pulling. Sort yacht-ish but on the soulful end of things.

Hi Steve. I actually spend a lot of time on all the sets I do for my shows, not sure why this one seems different but either way I appreciate the compliment. I did win the philtrations on ebay but it was on ebay twice recently. The first time it went for much less and I missed it. But the high bidder on the first one was DJ Honky so I'm glad it went down the way it went down. Sorry if I outbid you. There are a lot of records on that phoenix label, there were two guys that ran and produced everything on it, Calvin Wade and "Twinkles" Smith. There are the two Magnum 45s and an LP they did (kool and the gang type group). There are the two aftermath 45s. There is the great expectations 45, the original label that got picked up by Phila O Soul. The label was from LA but obviously they had philly connections for distribution. I think there's at least one more thing that I can't think of right now.

Roburt: that is the second one I mentioned already. Can you give me the info for the 3rd one? I would greatly appreciate it. Also, any insight on the lineup of grand theft? thanks so much.

you complained about the word "holy grail" before, but it sounds like your problem is with people overusing it. e.g. I would call frank wilson a "grail" record.

the bell boys are not from ohio, it wasn't recorded there and it was just released on an ohio label. The bell boys are from Aliquippa, PA and are the same group as the three rivers blue band on lion. They went to high school with the El Pooks (who later became the Stringfield Family). One other group from that city was the Soulistics.

I know a couple of the five chances if you want contact into to talk them. One of them has a really good memory. And I'm pretty sure Johnny Keyes is still around.

Thanks a lot for the info. I'm confused though -- are you saying Grand Theft has some connection to Episode Six or just that it was produced by one of the members of exit 6 (the guy who was in deep purple). I did notice a "ross" in the writing credits, which is one of the names you mention above as members of episode six. I assume this is the LP? https://www.ebay.com/itm/GRAND-THEFT-have-you-seen-band-LP-8-track-white-label-test-pressing-st-/200718735716?pt=UK_Records&hash=item2ebbc4d964#ht_1493wt_830 I didn't know that there were 3 45s. I see they have another one called "love burns" on EMI UK. Do you have any info on a 3rd single? Are the other two also soulish or are they straight rock? thanks a lot.

sorry I can't add anything. I know much about 50s groups / records and I think artists I have interviewed have never mentioned that studio. Sorry.

thanks a lot i appreciate it