Mr Outsider

Eskew Reeder - You Better Believe It (Cross Tone) M- $150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0IX3xXzaXU

Les Getrex - I Can Feel It In My Bones (Bayou Boogie) M- slight edge lift NAP $400 Not on youtube (yet) but the clips on this listing still work so you can hear it. Very rare midtempo 70s soul. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Funk-Soul-45-Les-Getrex-I-Can-Feel-It-In-My-Bones-Bayou-Boogie-VG-mp3-/171682366438

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Thank God for that disclaimer, I feel a whole lot better now. ;)

Dunno what you mean that they don't need to be buying vinyl - who does? Other than people who you think are proper DJs doing it the right way? Are people not allowed to collect records and listen to them at home? Because believe it or not quite a lot of people 'collect' reissues along with other records. You might think that's silly, but in that case you're basically elevating a certain kind of irrationality - i.e. your own - above others. No? I guess you're saying that if you weren't a DJ you would sell all of your record collection and listen to MP3's alone. Maybe you would, but I personally will probably stop DJing at some point but can't see myself wanting to flog everything immediately, or maybe ever. I always think of myself as more of a DJ than a collector, I don't tend to spend big on stuff without any DJ appeal, but I also like having records as possessions I suppose. That's irrational, yes, but I wouldn't ever argue it wasn't. The percentage of girls who fit into any of those categories, is roughly the same as the percentage of girls who buy any kind of records, originals etc - if not a bit higher actually. Which is to say, not very many at all, for whatever reason. A lot of girls spend their spare cash on stuff I personally think is b*llocks, but I'm not judging them for it! If I'm in denial about the fake DJ phenomenon it's because I've been hearing about them for nearly 20 years but have yet to really encounter them... And even if they do exist, I still can't see what damage they are doing to a scene and audience which do not entertain or host or provide any stage for them... As for the people buying expensive lookalikes on ebay - fuck only knows, sounds like serious mental issues to me, but first off I haven't seen anyone DJing with one of them, I don't think they can be seen as a significant group of people, and secondly, spending £200 on a 45 of any kind separates them from the average person who spends £5 on a new reissue so I don't think you're talking about the same people anyway. A lot of the other stuff you're talking about is sort of just waving your fist at the world - the phenomenon of a great song having no views on youtube is not actually disconnected to reissues - as I say, they only sell a few hundred copies worldwide, it's actually indicative of the same problem, even if you personally disapprove of the format. Interest in great music is an extremely marginal pursuit. But I'd say that companies like Norton, who I already mentioned, are certainly doing more to preserve old music and promote its popularity through their numerous well made comps and reissues than someone randomly farting out songs on a youtube channel. Maybe that's my own prejudice though, but I do think there is value in giving the music a context, treatment and package that it hasn't been afforded before. I don't think the replica boots do much to preserve or promote anything though, as I already said. Yes, it is always worthwhile picking through all this shit again... Somehow it never gets quite boring enough for me to not get drawn in. As for facebook, when, what, how? I stay on facebook to plug my clubs etc but mainly use it as a platform for pointless ranting. Where do I find you?

As for the title of the thread, I don't personally approve of replica label reissues. Quite apart from the possibility that they might dupe someone into thinking they are buying an original (anyone spending 3 figures or more on a 45 should be able to spot a repro a mile off surely?), if I have reissues in my collection, and I do have a few (I don't tend to DJ them though, don't call the police please), I'd rather have a nicely designed Norton label, for example, than a cheap looking scan of the original glaring out at me, they stick out a lot worse as replicas to me for some reason.

Hello old bean... Though I actually almost always agree with you up to an extent, I think your conception of the kind of people who buy reissues and boots is a little too narrow and informed by your world view / prejudices and so your conclusions from that are somewhat catholic and not seeing the whole reality. Or perhaps it's the other way around. Anyway, as someone with a smidge of 'insider knowledge', (perhaps most importantly I also work in a record shop which puts me in direct contact with people buying records of all kinds across the spectrum) I'd say that those people who buy reissues / boots etc are actually quite a varied bunch of people. I'd say there are a few 'types': 1. Casual vinyl buyers who mostly only buy from record shops and new stock outlets like Juno or whatever, don't spend more than a tenner on a single and aren't particularly interested in collecting original vinyl as they are just buying records. They are probably also buying across genres. Are they pretending to have the original record or do they just like spending some of their disposable income - though not all of it - on some records? In your mind it seems that they can only be faking it, but I don't think that's neccesarily the case. 2. Older chaps from various collecting scenes - doo wop, rock and roll, soul or anything else - who have traditionally bought vinyl only and will buy reissues and boots if they can't find an original as a placeholder or else don't want to pay out for it. Again, are they faking it? Not by definition. They undoubtedly know the 'difference' between the original and reissue records they own, possibly even feel a little dirty for owning the reissues, but nevertheless both have a home in their collection. 3. Younger collectors / DJs dipping into the music for the first time. They are attracted to records and vinyl for reasons which you might find pretentious but should also be able to relate to - we all fetishize vinyl to a greater or lesser extent and most of us first dipped our toes in with comps and the like. It's convenient to say that nowadays mp3 and youtube has made vinyl unneccessary as a listening format, but even in the 90s there were CDs which most of us rejected as we were drawn to vinyl specifically. Same thing for these people. Some of them will undoubtedly progress to buying originals and collecting in the more devout sense. Some might get bored and flog their collection of boots etc in a few years. It's fair to say I've encountered all these kinds of people and probably many others. In fact what I don't really remember encountering is the kind that you tend to paint - the guy who wants to pretend he's got a load of originals and impress people with them. As I've often said, there are various problems with this - one is the absence of an audience who are likely to be impressed. The only people who care about OVO are not likely to be in the audience of a DJ trying to pass off boots as originals - so the question is who are they trying to dupe and to what end - and as an extension who/what are such people harming? It's also important to realize that the sales on these records rarely exceeds 500 - worldwide (and they do sell just about everywhere, in small numbers). If you allow for the types of people I outlined above, that doesn't leave too many copies floating around in the hands of faker DJs, well not to the extent to match up with the image you often paint of every town having a club and bar with a DJ profiteering from playing boots and repros at the expense of those trying to keep it real with OVO. I just don't think that repros etc are that much of a threat to those who care about music etc as you think they are. For the most part they are simply a part of the same commerce in music as has always existed. Another fact which tends to weaken the idea that boots are just for those faking it, is that it's actually often very common records which sell the best as reissues, and big collector pieces often sell comparatively poorly. Which should show you that those buying them are often doing so for quite different reasons to those you imagine. You often hear collectors who complain about reissues of rarities who then can't ask 'what the f*ck have they done that for, it's a £10 record': aside from the fact that you can't have it both ways, it shows that they fundamentally misunderstand the market - probably because their own approach to buying records / music is so inherently different. Having said all this, the sheer number of boots and reissues these days is dispiriting to me personally and I believe the scale and speed at which they've been coming out is contributing to a quicker decline in interest in the music than if they were being put out more carefully and thoughtfully. It's increasingly a saturated market, if not so already... You might be surprised to hear me say that, but like I say my views have never been a million miles from yours. Anyway it all means that my own focus is increasingly on putting out the lower end or more common stuff on 45, which basically just makes it 'available' on the format in new record shops, avoiding a lot of the bigger rarities, doing unissued stuff as much as is possible, and then doing more album comps with sleeve notes, photos, scans, interviews etc which takes loads more time and effort and money but hopefully presents the music in a format which actually contributes to its longevity, not the other way around.

Eskew Reeder - You Better Believe Me (Cross Tone) M- £120 Reduced to £100 - bargain

I wasn't aware of such a rule. It was £375 It's in the Sales guidelines at top of Sales page ROD [Forum Moderator]

Johnny West - Tears Baby / It Ain't Love (Soul) VG to VG+ HELD Light overall wear, loud Sheldon pressing plays great. Probably my personal favourite double sider. Raw Detroit R&B / Early Soul. Rare and great... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhAz0I-xgN4

M- copy £40 sound sample clips:

The obvious advantage of discogs is that if you list something on here or on facebook you basically have one shot at selling it, a day or two of exposure before your post gets buried by new ones. Whereas on discogs people are constantly using the site in a different way. It can sometimes take a while but that's sometimes quite nice - I've sold stuff on there that's been listed for a year or more and I've near forgotten I had.

Reduced to £550

Percy Stone - Chained / Spreading Love (Ram) Vinyl is EX to M- from dead stock. Label has some marks from water damage. (see pic) £600 Monster crossover soul rarity from one of New Orleans' finest.

Ebay has tried to become more like a shop type place and move further away from the auction system over the years. That's one reason why there are a lot of boots and new pressings - because they can sit there on a fixed price. I personally don't think that's got anything whatsoever to do with original vinyl selling for less but I'm sure there are some people who think reissues and boots are responsible for AIDs and Cancer. The only thing that really bugs me about the pressings on ebay is that they've fucked up my saved searches! Anyway, where once there was mostly old and 2nd hand stuff on ebay, I'd guess that more than half of everything on there are new products in one way or another. This doesn't just apply to records, it's everything. Ebay wanted to compete with Amazon, without the burden of storing or holding any stock themselves, and that's largely what they are now doing. There are a few general reasons why I think Ebay might be less busy for second hand records these days, even if I don't think it's substantially so. The high fees and stupid shipping demands when listing on EBay US etc have put sellers off. Many people list on discogs, and many, many collectors now sell on facebook. For my own part, I generally list some reissues at buy it now and occasionally when I can be bothered I list some lesser grade stuff that's hard to price, start it low (99 cents), and am generally quite surprised by the high amounts that these can end up. But it's a hassle and I don't like giving up 20% to a company I have come to resent quite strongly due to their various rule changes and fee hiking over the years. The rest of my stuff I generally sell pretty quickly set sale on facebook or discogs. £15 records are generally hard to sell, and always have been. The reason being that they are £15 because they're relatively common. If I look for stuff to resell, I'll leave this kind of stuff behind unless it's dirt cheap. £25 and up normally sells quickly if you price it accurately and fairly. Like others have said, it's supply and demand, and fitting a price which matches the current market value.

M- copy £220

Reduced to £100

Mixing up the issues somewhat. I wasn't making the argument that cover-ups deny royalties, just that they deny appropriate credit. I don't think reissues have much relevance to the conversation but somehow it's ended up there. Not going to spend much energy on that topic, that one really never will end.

It's not my company, I work for Jazzman. Is this 20 questions? How many do I have left?

Depends, every case is different. Sometimes the artist or their estate get paid, sometimes they don't. I would always like for that to be the case and try quite hard to see that it does, where I can. The reality is that in most cases, these artists have no legal ownership over their music. That doesn't stop me thinking they deserve something though.

Nah.

I don't like where this is going...

Somewhat indirectly.

No I'm not Bearsy.

Yes, sorry Mik, I read / wrote that in my vaguely hungover early morning fog. Missed the wider sentence. I'm not sure if there's much point in carrying this on anyway. For one thing, Mace has just stumped me, the bastard!