Phil J

Typo …. ‘I’ve seen which a scene’ supposed to be ‘I’ve seen a scene’

Thanks for acknowledging that I have just as much validity to express an opinion as anyone else Peter! Your post plus one other gives me some hope that people out there are open minded and willing to accept other people have a view? I liked the one where the fella said I’m from Watford so what do I know? Let’s not forget the two most famous people of Watford, George Michael and Elton John, were massive Soul fans in their younger days albeit not northern Soul. As I suggested previously the northern soul organisation is just like any other, there’s the hierarchy of promoters, DJs and vinyl experts at the top of the pyramid and everyone else or the punters or the minions. Just like a football club is not a club without its fans you could say northern soul would be nothing without the punters. Some people feel it is a scene that cannot be described because you had to have been there. There’s been two movies, two touring plays plus numerous books and I feel creative people ought to be allowed to give their version of what their truth is. The books are mostly enjoyable (Although one or two focus in my opinion too much on the drug scene.) For me the scene was always about dancing, just like the Charleston and the Jitterbug that came before and the jazz funk and the street dance/breakdancing that came later I feel that’s the essence of the scene. Didn’t want to appear to be getting bogged down in academia or intellectualism (knowledge based) when really I feel it’s a scene all about feeling (emotion based) I’ve seen which a scene which can turn aggressive lads into dancers who sing along with some of the most emotional lyrics ever written - that’s got to be worth something! As for the person who said Ray Pollard should not be copied: there’s dozens of tribute bands up and down the country who imitate the Beatles, the stones, Coldplay, Bowie etc every weekend so why can’t people imitate Ray Pollard? For all we know he might even be flattered and honoured that someone should pay homage? I’ll end it how I started the thread. (Can’t believe there’s been 1 700 views!) All I was saying was isn’t it good how a bunch of musicians half our age somehow want to celebrate northern soul, possibly from a nostalgic angle (it’s prob something their parents were into) and that it held out some hope for the future continuation of the scene. KTF

Understand it? What like some sort of hierarchy do who are in on some sort of mystical secret!! A music genre/scene can be different things to different ppl, some will be geeks/anoraks who could tell you a record’s serial no., date of release, producer etc whereas others just want a bit of escapism, turn up at a venue, pay their fiver, dance dance dance then go home and forget about it - the distraction proved to be a welcome diversion. But to suggest some ‘understand’ it more than others suggests a whiff of superiority and is ever-so-slightly pompous and judgemental, good god! It was never like this in the mid 70’s when we were all just daft naive teenagers in search of something unusual ….. you lot will be putting on masters degrees and PHD’s on NS next!! LOL

Absolutely not mate - just doing my (small) bit for the epic city of Stoke on Trent

Just to annoy you lot even more, the video has been released today - nice retro vibe going on utilising the Kings Hall Stoke which has been used before to replicate the Casino - obvs the naysayers on here will hate it!!

Know what you mean about certain tracks fill the floor even though they’re not technically ‘soul’ e.g. Bob Sinclair (a French DJ I believe) and Tribute. It’s more of a rave record really with that thumping beat but ppl seem to be mad for it when the mood is right? In terms of royalties, the original singers/composers (many of whom are deceased now) live in poverty, I know someone who located some in the States, Dena Barnes wasn’t aware there were thousands of British fans dancing to one of her old songs, it would be a real humane gesture - a kind of levelling up - if someone who’s ever made £00’s or £000’s from one of these records could donate a % to them? Just saying.

Nope - no endorsement required/necessary! I was merely saying “look what these youngsters are up to - holding a candle up to what us guys used to get up to - great!” That’s all ….. btw I would say the minority of soul fans are into the rare scene and the majority into mainstream/ ‘the 500’ / bangers etc Mind you I’m judging it on empty/full dance floors and maybe you officianados/connoisseurs of soul are not into that side of soul and mainly listen? I don’t know but personally I feel higher % of ppl on soul source are into mainstream but I could be wrong and if I am ….. fair enough

Don’t think they were trying to break into the rare scene tbf! There’s more than one type of soul - I’m sure I don’t need to list them! They’re just a normal group of lads using their musicianship skills to pay homage to the sounds they used to hear coming from their parents’ turntables, really not sure where all the vitriolic comments come from? And there was me thinking the N.Soul community was generally warm and welcoming, Jesus wept!

No.5 on the ITunes R&B chart, not bad. But don’t you ‘purists’ accept that when Amy Lame and Stuart Maconie played it on radio 6 it will have introduced N.S. to thousands of new listeners, some of whom will then go and seek out an event and some will even get into your rare/underplayed genre which then keeps the scene busy/relevant/healthy or whichever adjective you wish to insert! Is that not a good thing, oh hang on, I suspect I know the answer

Well matter of fact I WAS 15 (Nov.74) and told parents I was staying at my mate’s, g/friend did same, train Stoke to Crewe then onto Wigan. But seriously if the under 60’s are not welcomed, encouraged and allowed to put their own (tech-savvy) spin on things then the scene can only realistically last another 5-10 yrs, this is why the Darrell Smith project, the touring Do I Love You show and performers such as The Signatures and Jonny Boy - while not being everyone’s cup of tea - nevertheless are reaching a wide audience and keeping the music relevant. I guess it’s all about opinions …… TAXI!

Been in touch with the ppl making it: money made is going out in royalties (presumably to those who own copyright?)

Or even the Long John Baldry version?

As you say, the age of social media has taken over and ppl need to decide whether to adapt, evolve and participate (i.e. like we’re doing right now on this platform) or just fade away. Our generation seem to scoff a lot at the likes of Bristol Soul Club and their energetic enthusiastic youngsters but if no-one was nostalgic about their parents’ preferred music genre then the whole scene just dies like the dinosaurs which is kind of depressing IMO

I don’t think a DJ of the calibre and integrity of Colin Curtis would be involved in the project (which he is) if the band didn’t in someway have some authenticity. If you listen to the original version and this one I find them very similar to be honest and if we keep knocking Young people who are trying to emulate a music genre their parents were into then, let’s face it, when all of us 60+ year-olds have died then I’m afraid the scene dies with us!!

Oh dear

Lancashire’s Darrell Smith has released a homage to the Drifter in collaboration with the Stoke band ‘Soul Brothers Syndicate’. Many of you will remember him from the epic Royal Albert Hall gig on bbc in 2023. It’s been played so far on Radio 6 but if anyone can help get it played on mainstream Radio 2 it would no doubt give a boost to its chances of success? Available here https://kycker.ffm.to/drifter

Tiscapital certainly writes eloquently and passionately - thanks for your input. As some have intimated, it’s not always possible to put your finger on why big hit tracks and DJ’s sometimes clear the floor and lesser-known tracks and DJ’s sometimes fill the floor but more often than not the opposite is usually the case. It can be a bit like a sports team play like legends one week and like amateurs the next, there’s no rhyme or reason. I think groups like the Bristol Soul Club are important in that here we have a group of youngsters who are determined to help us remember what it was like to be a wide-eyed optimistic (innocent?) teenager back in the 70’s. In my opinion it’s to be celebrated. My cousin’s rock band in London occasionally get fans turning up from far and wide having discovered the band’s online presence, it would be unfair of the band to say, “Look at these Johnny-come-latelies, they weren’t with us back in the day when we formed” - no, because those punters weren’t even born then ….duh! I think there’s some who feel they understand NS on a deeper level than most of us, they’ve discovered it’s hidden secrets and messages, there’s a special elixir only a few have access to - maybe there’s a social anthropology or political science angle that most of us don’t get? I’ll say it again, for most of us it’s a case of (a) listening to familiar stuff that takes us back to being a naive 15 yr old telling your parents you’re staying at your mate’s house then catching the train to Wigan (b) having a dance - while we’re still able to (just) and (c) if you spot one or two familiar faces it’s a bonus. I’ve enjoyed reading probably ten books on NS, most are very good and authentic - it’s good that some have documented this special piece of idiosyncratic working-class culture and it’s good that some pioneers went to the States seeking out forgotten tracks lying in flea markets and record company warehouses, this all helped to grow and expand the scene of course. As for the rest of us, we’re punters, the foot soldiers who just keep the scene alive by turning up and paying our fiver on the door or whatever in the hope that we too might be included. I’ll let myself out ….. “taxi”!!

Thanks for your input Kenb, I like your line that everyone’s opinion is valid ….. spot on!

Makes perfect sense Timbo - nowt wrong with a bit of variety/newly unearthed tracks etc as long as it doesn’t go on for an hour plus!! I thought I knew all of Bobby Womack’s back catalogue until one day in a small Stockport WMC alldayer a guy played a retro track I’d never heard, obvs I danced to it + downloaded it so I do see the beauty in hearing a few rare gems but I think the main point I’m making is that the punters/the 90%/ the humble ‘us’ should be considered by the 10% elite who run the scene (DJ’s/promoters/collectors) when making track choices?

Nowt wrong with a bit of Derby & Joan, bingo, cabaret act, sandwiches, affordable drinks - come on, what’s not to like! I first went to Wigan Casino Nov. 1974 age 15 so have been ‘round the block’ a few times (Mecca, Ritz, Keele etc) My theory is based on 50 years of observations that to keep the scene flourishing you have to keep the punters dancing and weird choices from the DJ = empty dance floors = bored punters = “we ain’t coming here again” UNLESS it’s a designated rare night (such as the one in Congleton Cheshire or the 6T’s nights at the 100 Club London) where ppl know exactly what they’re getting? I think a FEW rare tracks at a mainstream night is fine but dunna go giving us 90 minutes of that stuff cuz our arses will be numb from sitting looking at an empty floor. Perhaps certain DJ’s could have an eye test at specsavers the day before so they can actually spot what an empty dance floor looks like although obviously most DJ’s are supremely skilled at keeping dancers happy. It’s like the Oasis gigs next year (I’m not going before you ask!) 90% of fans will be going for wonderwall, live forever, champagne supernova etc etc whereas 10% officianado’s will appreciate a few of the lesser known (obscure?) song and it would be the same in any music genre. I think I’ve clarified and crystallised my main points now, if you still can’t understand then it’s fine.

I think atmosphere crucial to the scene being sustainable and empty dance floors just lead to apathy and a feeling of ‘won’t be coming here again’ IMO I think rare/underplsyed/underground stuff should have their unique separate nights or a designated spot during a mainstream night but no more than that - as you say balance is a key issue but when you’ve had an empty dance floor for an hour because some guy has decided that 60’s R + B needs to be shared then everyone is onto a loser. It takes all types I suppose but I’ll say it again - without the dancing there wouldn’t be a scene and that is what pulls 90% of punters in. As for the rare stuff, I know a group of DJ’s past & present who meet once a month in a pub (midweek) to spin rare sounds, now that’s what you call an excellent compromise

In addition to this debate, can’t understand how DJ’s don’t actually notice that they’ve emptied the floor!! Poor eyesight? I’d say (and it’s not a scientifically proven claim) that 90% of punters - particularly if you’ve been to work etc - just want to shake a leg/have a boogie of a Fri/Sat night and remember what it was like back in the 70’s! Perhaps those wanting to educate us with these fabulous (?) new discoveries could do it in the comfort of their homes OR get it out of their systems for the FIRST hour of an event (while ppl still arriving, greeting old mates, getting drinks in etc) or play them during the LAST hour when we’ve run out of steam and can no longer dance. Stop emptying a busy dance floor! (Unless you enjoy ruining punters’ nights out!)

I wrote a poem about a decade ago taking the **** out of Wedding D.J.'s who don't check out the dancefloor to see what's happening and kind of make the wrong choices which invariably empties the floor. I got to thinking, "Actually, this poem applies to some Northern Soul D.J.'s too". How many times do we see a busy, buzzing dancefloor (50+ punters) only for the next D.J. to display a special set of skills in emptying the floor due to a ridiculous change in temp, change in style or simply that he wants to indulge his own (niche) tastes. We then see maybe two dancers for his slot and isn't dance supposed to be the main activity on the scene? Niche stuff is fine - obviously - at a rare/underplayed night but surely not at a mainstream N.S. event? What do people think?