Owd Codger

Sounds like what I heard...but the sound from the decks was so muted that I coudn't hear the lyric which of course is a "tepid" attempt at the correct lyrics ( sort of).

Thank you Mick Confirms what I thought.

My impression was that it is a dubbed vocal....female...different lyrics ....and perhaps sped up. And the volume seemed muted...i.e. not a legitimate 45 that would have the usual mastering, volume etc....a bit like early pressings.

my impression was that it was the original backing track, different vocal.....BUT didn't sound an authentic Ric Tic Detroit 60s sounding track. i.e. a vocal has been dubbed on it.

No....it was a female vocal I think.....different lyrics altogether. Played a Prestwich Conservative Club , Manchester yesterday by a guest female DJ who did a nice spot. I think it was her who played " Change what you can" Marvin Gaye.....record of the day for me.

Heard a Female sounding vocal over the backing track to "Back Street" yesterday. (99% sure it was the original band track, not a cover) Seemed a tad speeded up new to me, can anybody throw light on this please?

A new Show , 60s/70s Soul Show on North Manchester FM 106.6 started 30 November 9-10 pm. ( a listen again facility to tune in when it suits). Www.northmanchester.fm/listen/ First show is non stop tunes, as gremlins hit the MIC but some nice sounds....Olympics, Enticers, Originals, Arch Bell, Les McCann and more When sorted, Greater Manchester club and event information gladly accepted. Email Soulfulshack55@gmail.com Thank you

Kesalocasoul Many thanks .....My memory occasional serves ....but can't remember last week. But it rather disapproves RW claim doesn't it. Motown collectors knew of the FW release entry in about 1970-71.....some, much earlier. I think the reason I recall it was because, as a young Motown collector on a mission, I was aware that " Sweeter as the days go by" I would have been, in about 1971, keen to hear a cover of Chris Clark's LP track. The B side... "Do I love You".....never heard of it at the time. Thank you

Regarding RW's claim that there was a "gap" in Motown's discography which was solved by a group he met at Wigan, as an old timer and member of Sharon Davis' ( Karen Spreadbury) Four Tops fan club, merging into " Motown Ad Astra", around 1970/71 ??, I' m sure that a discography of Motown issues was published in one of the magazines. Pre internet and specialist magazines, getting hold of such listings were Gold dust to young collectors. I'm pretty sure that the listing for the "Soul" label included FW quite clearly. Possibly listing the A side as " Sweeter as the days go by"

His job allowed him time to trawl through market stalls etc looking for imports.. I expected him to say Shudehill or High Street Market stalls. He immediately recalled...Soul pack / Global. Not to worry

Well, I spoke to him and it was an immediate recall. But it was around 1971 or so, so who knows for certain. I'll take his word for it

Just been speaking to my friend who seems to think he got the Chuck Cockerham in a Soul Pack from Global Records on Chepstow Street, Manchester. He also recalls getting Collette Kelly "City of Fools" in a pack from there too.

Can't exactly remember when I traded it, but somewhere around1986-87 would probably cover it I think. From first hearing it, and occasionally borrowing it, in about 1971-72, I eventually got it in a batch of 45s my friend sold me...that would be around 1985/6...... So, after loving the record, and wanting it for years....I traded it within months . I guess we've all got similar tales

Maybe not, probably my trade was unimportant to him, but my connection to this 45 dates from around 1970-72 so it was very personal item to me and I know it's history (i.e. years loving the record but unable to persuade my friend to swap, and years later getting possession of his copy) and what I eventually did with it (Very Reluctantly too). This was before the record gained recognition I presume.......as to when the NS scene discovered it I do not know, but my friend ( a member of this web site) had it around 1970-74 period. I can tell you that , when trading it, I asked Dave Withers did he know it , and suggested to him to play it there and then.. He replied that he didn't, and it was obvious after a few bars, he approved. He was either a magnificent poker player, or he genuinely didn't know it. There would probably be no reason for him to remember it....to me , it is imprinted on my memory. I was sad to let it go but at the time, as a lapsed Motown collector, was thrilled to get this tape of Motown unissued ( Suspicion, Love starved heart, Keep Steppin;, After the rain etc ).

Circa 1986, I swapped my copy of Chuck Cockerham on Mala for 2 cassette tapes of unissued Motown and some Northern tracks ( value about £2) with Dave Withers on an indoor market stall ( Afleck's Palace) Manchester.

Just had a look on Don't Forget the Motor City site Details of the Four Tops track ( Dennis Lussier is better known as Deke Richards). Sweet Was The Love (Dennis Lussier) published Jobete 15-Feb-68 Four Tops; recorded Hitsville-GW, completed 17-Jan-68 ; produced by Dennis Lussier 25-May-05; CD (S): Hip-O Select B0003626-02 Lost Without You: Motown Lost And Found

Yes....that was the track. As I say, in the show the DJ was playing a record in 1968, that probably hadn't even recorded by that date. Perhaps the event was held in the Tardis.

This thread led to me look at Al Abram's " Hype and Soul" book. Al Abram's was Motown's first ( chief?) Publicist.(1959-1966) I cannot find any reference at all to Jack Gibson, which seens strange given what we read from the above posts). Even in the section regarding Motown's links with DJs . The majority of the articles in the book are press cuttings, letters promoting Motown, photographs of Motown artists etc from Motown's history whilst Abrams was Publicist. There are no articles that feature Gibson, so it's not just a case of Abrams omitting him. Were there any issues between them I wonder?

Graham Do you think Berry Gordy actually knew about this Miss Motown disc at the time?

Thanks. I didn't think it was ever intended for General sale, just wondered about costs involved.

With regard to the Miss Motown 45, would there be a minimum "print" of discs...presumably just cutting a handful would be expensive. Was there an industry standard that deemed a minimum run essential so as to be cost effective? If so how many Miss Motown 45s would you expect Motown to sanction.

Raynoma was moved out of Detroit in 1963 I believe. Raynoma forced Gordy into a marriage he clrearly didn't want. Berry Gordy was involved in an affair with Margaret Norton. Raynoma tracked the couple to a bowling alley and produced a pistol ....and apparently Smokey intervened to prevent a very dangerous situation. Raynoma was quickly moved out, to New York.

Interesting. Perhaps Berry, in older age, became more sentimental about his legacy... Motown the Musical etc. I recall receiving some corrrspondence from Reg, I believe it was news if an International Motown Collectors Club. Ii wrote to Richard Searling on CFOS with details and supplied my number for anybody who fancied joining. Richard read out the details, and told me to stand by for lots of calls. I didn't receive one

Hello Graham Thanks for your update. As I say, it warms my heart to know that Berry has a collection of Motown ( is there a cut off period I wonder?). It amused me to think he occasionally plays 45s from Ivy Jo, Stylists, Headliners, Naturals etc. On a serious note, it would be fascinating to find out his in depth knowledge, interest, recollection of the 60s, 70s releases. There is an perception that after 1967, his grasp on the day to day operation waned to a large degree. To what extent did he know of the releases by then?

Thanks Graham I didn't know that Berry has such a collection. I am surprised but heartened to learn that. That fact makes it easy to believe that the above suggestion is more likely. Thanks again for the article.