Solidsoul

It's a good point about the trimming tool but I think probably the trimming tool would only trim excess vinyl, not form part of the pressing groove/profile. The outside run-in taper/chamfer is formed by the pressing plate, as it's part of the run-in groove.

I don't need a time machine to spot an Archer pressed record. All the large Archer stamped records I have looked at, have a nice finished outside tapered edge to the record. This chamfered or tapered edge makes the outside edge of the record quite sharp. When I look at a lot of Nashville Matrix 95 records they don't have the typical Archer type nice outside edge taper. The outside run-in groove is flat to the outside edge with no taper/ chamfer. When I look at Archer stamped records like Doni Burdick, Four Tracks, Mighty Lovers, Eddie Parker, Westbound records etc. All have the sharp outside edge tapered run-in groove. You mention The Four Sonics on Sepia. The large Archer stamped copies have the nice outside edge taper, typical of a in-house stamped Archer pressed record, but the non,-stamped Sepia has just the flat edge run-in groove. A lot of Mary Jane records have the Nashville Mains 95 stamp, but don't have the typical tapered Archer run- in groove, it's just a flat run-in groove to the outside edge. Sometimes like Betty Lloyd on BSC there is no Archer stamp, just the Nashville Matrix, but that looks like a Archer in-house pressing because it has the typical tapered Archer outside edge profile. All this leads me to think Archer Stamped records are done at their factory and some non-Archer Nashville Matrix 95 stamped records with the good outside tapered edge are pressed at Archers factory. Copies without the stamp and high quality tapered run-in profile, and just have the flat edge are maybe the product of a sub- contractor for Archer, or for some reason made by them to a lesser quality finished item. Maybe it is just another machine, but this happens time and again. It must require different mother/pressing plates for the different outside edge profiles! It is hard to work out why it would be done.

You're right when you say I can't prove it, and you have more facts and figures, but in the end you are still patching it together like everyone else. You are quick to dismiss the vinyl profile angle as another pressing machine, but when the same things keep happening again and again, there is a patten emerging regarding the Archer stamp and the vinyl profile. Before you say it's just another machine, that is just a guess and doesn't fit with what I am seeing. I still think that Archer may have been subcontracting work out to others. I can't prove it, so I will have to leave it for now. All the comments on this thread are really useful and all help patch this piece of history together. I am finding it interesting reading.

One of the main reasons for machine stamps is if you get a hit/charting record you can identify bootleg/counterfeits. It's a form of business security. They didn't need an Archer stamp if it was already Nashville Matrix stamped. The same reason they only needed a Archer stamp on one side of the record to identify their product from a counterfeit. It doesn't have to be Southern Plastics, they could have got someone else, at a later date, to press up the second press for a cheaper price. I just don't see the point of the Archer plant itself putting stamps on some of the records, but not others, of potentially hit records.

But it's not just the Eddie Parker records. The Four Sonics on Sepia has Archer stamped copies and there are non-Archer stamped copies as well. So this was happening with other releases as well. Probably some Westbound releases as well. Why would this keep happening at the same factory? Apart from a mistake, what's the point with stamps if your not going to do all copies? That's why I think it's different pressing plants with different way's of working.

That is not logical! Why would Archer consistently, record release after release, press some copies with a large Archer stamp and then some more copies without the stamp. Not just a mistake once, but a business plan? That is not likely! They must have been done at separate plants. It would be like saying Atlantic records did not use three different pressing plants, they did all the label and pressing variations at the same factory.

You raise a lot of good points, but I have a Four Sonics on Sepia that has a large Archer stamp. I have also got the one without the stamp to compare. They have a different vinyl profile. The outer edge is sharper on the Archer stamped press.

The large Archer stamped copy is the first issue. Just like the demo.

The first large Archer press is hard to get. It's not common like all the other presses. I haven't seen one for sale for years now, and I have looked a lot. The copies that were about must be all locked up in collections. If there are plenty of copies why aren't there any for sale? Who has seen a large Archer stamp copy for sale in recent years? But I agree, this thread is going round and round in circles.

If the Archer pressing plant was ok with pressing records without the Archer stamp, why would they bother with it at all? It becomes pointless! This makes me think they are different pressing plants.

I think maybe "flowery prose" is just a nice way of saying "unnecessary hyperbole." But when people see the prices hyperbole seems to make, who can blame them from using it!

Original first issue USA OKeh 45. Condition is Excellent. £25 plus postage.

Flowery prose is another name for unnecessary hyperbole. If some major dealers are using it and getting amazing prices, you can't blame the little people for doing the same!!

I think people do get carried away with the auction process. A form of mass hypnosis. Certain popular dealers can make their descriptions very alluring, and if you join in the bidding you will be part of something big and feel important. Then once you start bidding, the wanting to win kicks in. It can become a little obsession and you must win this auction and have that record at all costs!

Classic from as far back as the Twisted Wheel where it was played off the Stateside release. Quality Soul dancer in mint- condition. Looks and plays mint. Original USA first issue. £30 plus £3.50 postage.

I have a different perspective. I remember when "Hey Little Way Out Girl" was a Richard Searling exclusive he had covered up as the Del Capris! It was the biggest record in the country. A virtually unobtainable massive sound that you could only hear at the very best upfront allnighters. It's one of those records that sound awesome loud in an allnighter and the top dj's really wanted to able to get a copy to play! Everything changed when it came out on the Grapevine single. Then anyone could have it and it was dropped from all major playlists. Playing it at home doesn't have the same effect as it did in those far off allnighters!

All-time Northern Soul classic. Played from the very early days of the scene at all-nighters like The Twisted Wheel, The Torch, The Casino, through to the present day, filling any dance floor Original first issue USA 45 in Excellent condition. £40 plus postage.

On Hold. Fabulous double sider. "Your Losing Me" and "Why Can't You Love Me". Original Atlantic first issue in M- condition. Small drill hole in label. £25 plus postage.

Great 70's record on the original first issue 45. Ex condition. £12 plus postage I first heard it in the Highland Room Mecca and later at the Casino in Wigan. It eventually got a UK release on Contempo. Second picture is copy for sale.

It has a great flip side as well

Same backing track as Dave Hall "Look At Me" on Sound.

Lets hope not! Not something I would buy. The price guides really spoiled record collecting from the States and from UK record fairs/shops, and still are to this day! I only want the records, not another book!

This auction copy is the rarer variant with the brown print TUFF logo instead of the more common black print logo.

Let's Get Together - Andrew Brown - 4 Bros. M- £125 His rarest and best on the label. It's No Sin / You've got To Love Me Sometimes - Gene & Eddie - Mon'ca Ex. Great! £100 Where Are You - Four Sonics - Triple B M- £55 Great. What Would I Do - The Superiors - Verve (Rare sky blue demo) Ex with some very slight scuffs when angled into the light. Looks and plays great. Can't Get Him Out Of My Mind - Dawn - APT - Ex condition. £30 Soon Everything Is Going To Be Alright - Third Time Around - Deneen - £12 Ex. Small A in pen on the label. Sing A Happy Song - The Escorts - Knockout - Mint- £20. Very catchy modern Soul. Goddess Of Love - Marvelettes - Tamla T 54091. Ex with small drill hole - £15 Classy Motown. He's Always Somewhere Around - Donny Gerrard - Greedy Records. M- £15 Love Makes The World Go Round - Deon Jackson - Carla Ex. £10 Need Someone - Marvin Gaye - UK Tamla Motown - Ex £15. No USA 7" single of this record. Brilliant overlooked dancer. You Are Just A Living Doll - J.J. Barnes - Ex £5 Hole In The Wall - The Packers - Pure Soul Music. Ex-. 60's Nightclub classic. £10 The Slow Fizz - The Sapphires - Original UK Probe - M- £15 You Told Your Story - Troy Keyes - ABC - Ex+ £15 Common Thief - Bill House - RCA demo. M-. £ 30 There Must Be A Love Somewhere - Ede Robin - Le Cam. (White label, black writing) Ex+ £10 You're With Me All The Way - The Charades - Mercury white demo. Ex- £25 I Don't Want To Live My Life Alone - The Witches - Sew City - M- £20 Wrong Crowd - Prince George - P.D.G. M- 70's reissue. £12 You're Still The One - Roscoe Shelton - T-Jaye Records - M- £20 I'll Never Let You Get Away - Jimmy Ruffin - Tamla Motown tmg 922. Ex. £12 The Ladies Choice - Boby Franklin - Fee. M- £10 When Love Is New / All I Need Is You Tonight - Arthur Prystock - UK Polydor M- £15 The Goose - The Parliaments - Revilot 214 60's Funk. £5 123 / Like A Baby/I Struck It Rich/ It's That Time Of year - Len Barry - UK MCA EP Mint- £8 I'll Live Her Life - The Temprees - We Produce - Ex- £5 Ten Ways Of Loving You - Lenny Williams - U.K.Malaco. £12 Pictures on request. Postage price to add on. All originals unless stated.

The labels could be stacked anyway round. It doesn't matter and anyone loading the machines know this so would not bother trying to get them all the same way round to match the run-out details! What would be the point of that? It would be like putting bottle tops on to line up with the bottles labels!