Modernsoulsucks

Mark, if John gets his 45s from USA he pays no VAT on the 45s but he still has to pay VAT to taxman. I fell into that trap when I was dealing full-time. He can't claim anything back on the records. So if he bought at $1000 and sold at £2000 cos he's registered he'd pay £350 VAT which puts up the cost of the initial purchase by 50%!! Think Im right in that, aren't I John. ROD

It's particularly obvious that some UK dealers/ collectors/sellers operate as if Ebay does not exist. They have the JM and TB guides and seem to stick to those when pricing, taking usually the rate for a mint copy and then even adding on at times. They completely fail to take into account record condition or the fact that the same records appear regularly on Ebay [they may have even got their 45s from Ebay themselves] at half the price or in a lot of instances without attracting any bids, despite the US seller mentioning that it's so much in the guide. I think a general perusal of what's on sale at any allnighter would bear that observation out. If you're trying to sell 45s at £30 and above IMO you're selling to collectors and you've not done your homework if you think we just shell out cos it's there. We're on Ebay,we get various lists, there's this site, so we compare prices and majority of us will wait until we think it's worth the money. Of course the price guides have been a disaster in that the source of supply has wised up but then a lot of US dealers have been abreast of developments over here well before JM and TB guides. However it has spread to a lot more people over there and last time I was in USA I did get the impression that these guys think ALL 60's soul 45s are worth a fortune. Too late to put the genii back in the jar but maybe the new editions of these guides will reflect what some of us see as a too high valuation on a lot of 45s. They say anecdotal evidence is not proof but for instance Eddie Bishop reg issue is £300 in both guides [or maybe was on John's site] but can't sell it for £150. No wonder,it's crap!! Im sure many people on here have similar experiences. I do take John's point though about global reach. Bit of a difference between his site and my handful down at the local Northern do!! There is however a slight upside to all this in that you can sell pretty poor records and make a profit by selling cheaper than guides or established sites. I recently sold a couple for £15 and £40 which were £75 and £100 elsewhere respectively. Maybe the problem with the guides is that they cannot reflect the fluid nature of what collectors are prepared to pay. For every 45 that John or Tim IMO over-rates there's another they've under-rated if you take the Ebay auctions as your guide. ROD

That's gotta be Dave McCadden. Think he wrote that cos Frank's column was more or less a rehash of the ads found elsewhere in B&S. I've seen Frank in the past 12 months at a do around Burnley. My wife recognised him right away and said that he'd hit on her when she was younger. Although it was several years and lbs ago I find it slightly disconcerting that Frank and I share the same taste in women. ROD

Well Brian I kinda objected to Paul's complaint that Russ's style turned people off. I didn't listen but wasn't he doing a Wheel special so there's gotta be some historical perspective, which I agree with Paul should maybe stop short of droning on about pre-decimalisation. However,I ain't heard many shouts going out to the Chingford Massif either on Mr. Bicknell's show. Apologies if that bit of youth culture is now passe. Whilst Im posting he then comes up with the dreaded sub-Three Dog Night Porter 45 as a suitable bridge to the current scene. Now,unless I've got this completely wrong that record is more to do with the nostalgia type venues even though I've only heard it in past 6 years or so. It's like "Party time man" and the other beach music clones that are easy on the ear and feet. It may be that a way forward is for Xfm to run their own club night aimed at the younger element and maybe there will be some crossover onto the existing scene as there was with Mod revival in the 80's. But who entertains and even educates these punters. Soul Sam,Butch, Andy Dyson and with all due respect to these guys, are you not back to Paul's complaint that it's seen as grandad music. ROD

I didn't call Paul a "tosser"[those were his words] I think you'll find ,Brian. I called him a "muppet". In hindsight I started it and I apologise. However my questions to him still stand. How will targeting largely the Manchester student population attract new blood to the scene, and why does RW get in the way of the music. I used to listen to Mike Raven on the radio. I don't remember him being the voice of youth at the time and his musical leanings were definitely not towards soul but the blues. I didn't stop listening because he'd still play something I'd like and want to buy. RW seems to be an easy target on this site. Someone else on this thread said he and his mates thought Wigan was "laughable" when they went and yet it was pretty much a continuation of the Torch and a lot of the people there like me came down after the Mecca. You heard a lot of the same 45s and the record bar was definitely a good place to buy and trade. That's not to say that a couple of years later we were listening to pop and Sousson instumentals but there were still good records played. I don't see that it's my responsibility to get new blood on the scene. If the idea that playing NF Porter to a small demographic in Manchester is the way for us to flourish then I have to disagree. I went to Quinvy's night in Burnley. No NF Porter heard there all night. So to put that 45 forward as representative of the current scene whilst denigrating RW is missing the whole ethos of Northern by a mile. The only way for NS to flourish is for it not to become stale or stagnant by playing different 45s. I think I've turned up enough popular 45s to say that I've done my bit. With internet radio,BBC local and national radio and the odd TV exposure there are plenty of avenues to hear Northern, much more than in my day, and those with a predisposition towards it will find it. You can't package it as the latest thing cos it's not. My jaundiced view of the younger element owes a lot to the knobheads at the Black Lion in Skipton who attended each time I did and spilt beer all over the dance floor and took the mick out of the dancers. Maybe Paul's potential converts will be completely different. ROD

And you mate can practice your dj skills with your copy of Nolan Porter and then go up to bed and dream of your little utopia where there are no dads or Uncle Terry's in NS clubs but just "cool" guys from15-34 spilling beer all over the floor and shouting their mouths off and you'll be a big wheel behind the decks. ROD

Before we start tossing "tosser" around perhaps you could explain to me how playing one of the worst tracks I've ever heard to a bunch of non-soul fans in one small part of the country is going to attract a discerning crowd, move the scene forward, backwards or bloody sideways. You mate sound like a jumped-up know-nothing. You ain't fit to lick Russ's boots and God knows he pressed up enough of them. ROD

Just what we f**king need. A load of shandied up knobhead students asking for Nolan Porter. I can't wait!! ROD

Oh man, you blew it big time,Paul B. Nolan Porter is your choice is it. Go back to listening to the Beatles. What a muppet!! ROD

Can't really see what objection there could be to Russ presenting a show on this small station aimed at Manchester trendy types. Richard has been doing a Northern show for years and he's not really been active since the early days of Stafford apart from his modern soul promotions. Don't really remember walking into Wigan back in September 1973 and thinking that Russ Winstanley was worse than any of the other DJs. As for young blood I ain't noticed that much apart from a few moddy types in R&B rooms dancing to stuff we would, and still do, laugh at. Guys, get it into your heads. It ain't Northern Soul. If I'd have played a 45 I didn't know that sounded like that it wouldn't have got past the first couple of bars. If Paul B thinks he can do better let him give it a go but unless he's got some kick-ass collection of 45s we've never heard then I'd prefer Russ's nostalgia trip cos at least he was playing some of those 45s for the first time at Wigan. ROD

Anyone interested in this 45. Mintish Dewey Jeffries "When no one cared". Pleasant slightly jazzy crossover I guess. $870 on Popsike!!! £100. PM if interested ROD SOLD. Thank you.

Butch sent me a tape around mid 80's with some stuff to listen to that he thought were OK. Mello Souls was on it, and recently I've heard that "Teenage Prayer" 45 getting spins so that's only taken 20 years!! If we're talking tracks that have gone overground recently that weren't played previously as opposed to known about by a few collectors then I'd submit the Pat & Blenders track which I pretty much hear everywhere now. Likewise maybe Sugar & Spices,Dottie & Millie. A track on Butch's tape that as far as I know has not had it's day but which I think is the next Delegates of Soul is the Mark III on Stop. Im not up with the modern stuff but from reaction of people on this site could that Ellipsis be latest big discovery. Apologies if it turns out to have been played at Thorne!! ROD

As far as I know my grannie has never got "jiggy" with a footballer and I resent that crude innuendo. Ted, we all have tales like that. I bought Paul Anka and Utopias at Wigan. I kept Anka and sold Utopias. Whose mad now, eh? Er............. ROD

Well Ted, I can think of the French and Russian and a few in the 19th Century making less than 10 clicks in just over 200 years. I didn't realise it was that old. Is it an R&B track? Simple rules for dealing with damaged 45s Cracked - Throw it in the bin Badly scratched - ditto Badly warped - the same Modern Soul - there's not a bin big enough!! If Ted, you had followed this advice then the junk dealers on Ebay may not have got a foothold. Admittedly you'd be £1750 out of pocket which does throw up a small flaw in my otherwise sound advice but Im sure you'd agree that principles are much more important than money. Now I have to go as I've put my grannie up for auction on Ebay and it's reached the closing stages. ROD

Actually Baz at the time the scene appeared to be in the doldrums so it wasn't a real big deal like it would be today even though more copies have turned up since. I also heard it on a small portable player so it wasn't like hearing it at Wigan ten years previously over the speakers. I just thought I've heard that before, what is it? Took me a couple of minutes to click as I was only half-listening as I looked through 45s. I think Martin Koppell found the Al Scott somewhere in NY. ROD

Baz, I found Mr. Soul in a shop in Baltimore late 80's/beginning of 90's when it was still covered as Maurice McAllister. Just in a pile of 45s that looked interesting. Think Brownie bought it off me. I obviously told everybody I knew. I don't remember Richard having Phoenetics on an acetate as Dave Withers and I played it first at Stafford. Got that and Monique from a mate in LA. Think we covered Monique up but can't remember about Phoenetics. ROD

Simon, never said she couldn't sing. Just that 70's beach sound is so poppy. Actually her delivery does elevate it a bit above the usual smooth saccharine blandness of the genre, but not much. ROD

Think I took about 200 of these to Carolinas in the '90's that I got out of that wholesale place in Telford. What is it with these pop beach titles like this and Futures,Lou Rawls, "Integrity" that appeal to some sections of the Northern scene. It's handbag music. ROD

Tex-mex influence may be because there's an awful lot of Mexicans working in N. Carolina. I think agricultural labourers. You see a lot around the flea markets where there are guys selling Mexican music. ROD

I've seen him a couple of times years ago at US record conventions. Bit eccentric but harmless. However,offering outside Ebay is against the rules so how come nobody has complained and got him off the site. Second thoughts as I think dealing is his primary source of income so it'd be a bit tight. Soul Police should deffo have a word with him though. ROD

"Reserves" and esp that Count guy who has a reserve on everything even if beat up and nowt seems to reach the reserve!! When they auction them but word it as if it's some kinda set sale. Low Starting Price meand f**k all. It's just cheaper to list for the seller. "Glassboy". I really wanted that Whispers and to be beat by 64cents is a fackin liberty. ROD

A couple of people have referred to a drop in prices but Im with Ted "good" 45s are going up. I don't see my collection as an investment at all and I just assume they'll be worthless when Im gone cos hopefully you lot would have gone before me. I can't see how leaving them as a financial legacy, as Mr. Cosgove suggests, would work. Unless he dies relatively soon IMO the demand in say 30 years time will be minimal. ROD

I've got George Lemons too and it's bloody awful. I'd also like to nominate "Baby you're alive" Styles. Great backing,great back-up vocals and George Lemons moonlighting!! Listening to it now. Terrible!! ROD

Hey Pete, I've tried to calm things down. Don't bar him. It's fun. MELVIN

If you goodle it they say this rarer version is very ungerateg. ROD