Timillustrator

So what's the betting that 200 odd events will now all be scheduled for the weekend of the 25th/26th June!?

Good point, I have no idea what influence Japan has on soul record collecting? Any Idea? I've seen Japanese collectors pay insane money for other music memorabilia, like $1,000 for T Shirts and stuff.

It's difficult to try and apply economic laws to it because the size of the market is difficult to predict. From purely personal knowledge the majority of DJ's are 50+, possibly 10-20% under 50 and less than 10% under 30. A lot of demand is driven by DJ's wanting to play records out. Collectors who don't DJ are more difficult to age profile because they are invisible but from my occasional foray to record fairs I'd say the vast majority are 50+ and all the collecting groups on Facebook I am in I'd say the average age is 60. So if you fast forward 30 years, the 20 year olds are now 50 and have the money and time to collect what they couldn't before but the market could be 90% smaller, so even though there's still demand there could be 10X the supply. That's presuming we're not all living to well over 100 and still, by some miracle drug, dancing into our 80's and still collecting.

Absolutely, the current market is boosted by people having money, time and thanks to technology the ability to buy, sell and value records with a high degree of accuracy. It is definitely a collectors market rather than an investors one but as the collectors decline so will the value - simple economics, the demand is driven by relatively rich informed collectors. At the moment it is not an investors market like stamps and coins are.

Yep, similar thing happened with some jazz records a few years ago. As collectors snap up everything the prices rise, when it's all gone and those collectors start to die off the price falls. I am amazed at how quickly the values of 80's and 90's American hardcore punk records is rising, similar thing - fairly new market and suddenly people have money to but stuff they couldn't afford when they were younger. Some of it is quite staggering; not up to soul records prices by any means but very sharp increases for rare, obscure stuff.

Hi Len, All good thanks and hanging in there (just) but I really do think the end is in sight. Hope you're all OK. I think you are both right - some people will give up altogether either because they've just changed their mind, moved away, retired or are just wary of going out again. Others will have had a good rest and re-emerge with new enthusiasm and there will be some new faces who've 'discovered' soul through lockdown, livestreams, Facebook etc. I think the only thing that is certain is that there will not be the same old people at venues there were before (or the same venues ) The same is probably true of business, I know a few people (my accountant for one) who've just decided now is a good time to pack it in and retire, others haven't survived financially but equally a lot will have been made redundant and will be setting up on their own for the first time.

What's the betting that as soon as things fully return to normal there'll be 10 times as many clashes! That first weekend - 400 events.

Still nothing "official" but this is a nice summary of the several sources. https://www.nme.com/news/music/northern-soul-singer-nolan-porter-has-died-2873942

Anyone heard anything? There's lots of posting on Facebook but I can't find anything official?

Been exploring the others too, most are not of that much interest to soul fans but the Motown one episode 19 is very good too. "Roger Armstrong & Kevin Howlett discuss their re-vamping of the original Sound Of The R&B Hits compilation." https://acerecords.co.uk/features/the-ace-records-podcast/the-ace-records-podcast

That was really good. A few of the other Ace Records podcasts also look interesting although not that many appear to be soul related particularly.

For those that missed it the first time round it's back on again. I thought the second series was way better than the first but will give it another go. I found it a bit messy - the two main backstories were a bit confusing and detracted a bit from the whole thing but overall I thought it was a good effort and balanced the need to appeal to a mass market with reasonable historical accuracy. https://virgintvgo.virginmedia.com/en/tv/channel-asset.html/lgi-gb-prodobo-master%3A1585/location/41011/1610661600000.html?fbclid=IwAR2TejlhaU52AQgTeZTkRSCxSOT-hOsBjBfksOGSWRbgjwZFPp7di3iYp-Q

Couple of years old now but love this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giving_You_the_Best_World_Tour Did a bit more searching and it's on Wikipedia (not always the most reliable source but looks legit) 21, 22 and 24 October 1988. With both of them, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giving_You_the_Best_World_Tour There's a reference but that gives no more info either https://www.songkick.com/concerts/6436891-anita-baker-at-sse-arena-wembley

If you go to page 28 here, it lists Anita playing 15th and 16th June 1990 at Wembley. Because it only lists one artist you have to search again for Luther but his one shows that on the 12th June he was in California and the 30th June in Washington DC, so he could have flown over in the interim but unlikely. It lists Mariah Carey and Luther jointly but that's it. The set list is there though may bring back a memory? https://www.setlist.fm/search?page=28&query=Anita+baker

Zero bids though, maybe common sense has prevailed.

You can have music BUT "Refraining from playing music or broadcasts that may encourage shouting, including if played at a volume that makes normal conversation difficult. This is because of the potential for increased risk of transmission, particularly from aerosol transmission. Loud background music, communal dancing, group singing or chanting should be prevented."

Yeah it's probably not a totally logical decision on their part but maybe the fact that Britain has the highest COVID19 death rate in Europe plus Brexit make it look a bad bet overall?

Surely with today's new restrictions anything live for the rest of 2020 will have to be cancelled? There are still events up.

I buy the odd watch and since the pandemic a lot of foreign sellers have declined to sell to the UK, I've read a few things about delays in the US postal system and goods being stuck for months at a time. Dunno if that's a factor?

That Manfred Mann story is hilarious!

A very good point, personally I think it will be the very large venues with massive overheads and the very small venues with little income that'll go. The middle range clubs - British Legions, social clubs and the like will probably make it though, many are open anyway as pubs.

As more weeks pass with an increasing infection rate (albeit a decreasing death rate) I can't see the Gov't lifting the restrictions on dancehalls or night clubs anytime before Christmas now. I know some events like Richard Searling's Blackpool tower are still hedging their bets and not cancelling until it's absolutely obvious that they will not go ahead and I understand this; some ticket sales means some money coming in even if it gets transferred to next year, but it would seem incredibly unlikely that they'd allow an indoor event of 2,000 people, with loud music, no distancing and dancing to take place in just over two months time. In the meantime, though, it will inevitably mean many venues will close, probably permanently - furlough scheme ends October, loan schemes November; people just don't have the reserves to wait for another 2, 3, 4 months or more. So I reckon unless there is either a radical change in Gov't policy regarding financial support or the virus just miraculously dies out then the number of venues will drastically reduce. This will obviously affect the scene but who knows how far or for how long?

I was optimistic at first with falling infection and death rates and thought, like many others, that stuff would be back on by the end of the summer. Several promoters still seem to be gambling on that happening, with large events still not cancelled for October and November but given recent events - rise in the infection rate, US second wave and New Zealand re-emergence today I have changed my mind and think nothing will be on until 2021. The Government will shortly have a very stark choice though - continue with restrictions and consign hundreds of thousands of people in the hospitably industry to the dole and businesses to the wall or lift restrictions and risk a US style re-emergence.

There is definitely an age element, I did read something about how the market for rare jazz records rose and fell as collectors passed away and newer ones didn't take up the slack. That was probably 15 or so years ahead of northern soul; similarly I've noticed that the market for American Hardcore punk records is just starting to soar which is probably about 10 years behind northern soul. So if you're in it for the money start collecting the next big thing NOW. Probably grime records or something