Kenb

5 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

I haven't seen how the event was received by the wider public, maybe we will find out after last nights showing. I was hoping we might hear how the musicians and singers found the experience.Perhaps with the wealth of instrumentals to pick from we might get a future prom focusing on them. Without the subjective opinions on the quality of some of the vocals an instrumental prom would maybe be better received by the naysayers.

    Much as I enjoyed it there is no substitute for the real thing which had me thinking , if I was Joe public watching  would it make me want to go to an event, not sure it would but that's just me.

Much as I enjoyed it there is no substitute for the real thing which had me thinking , if I was Joe public watching  would it make me want to go to an event,....

Hope not

the guy furthest right would have been well surprised! Sparkles 1963 ( pre Tough Girl)

T. D. Valentine ;Allison Took Me Away

Flip of Love Trap

39 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

I don't think the wheel or torch had a record bar, did they? When I started going nighters it seemed to me where the action was, as a music fan primary, obviously the dancefloor was important but perhaps less so than in the Wigan era. 

By rarity I do indeed mean more focused on rarity than quality at the expense of easily available but truly great northern records. Rarity+ quality, in terms of dancefloor appeal, seems to elevate a records status to mythical proportion. I've heard comments like; 'its just not rare enough to get played' hundreds of times over the years.

Since the 80's an unwritten rule seems to be; it has to be Rare, and good, obviously that's subjective ,so let say: good as in having dancefloor value, to get played at all on the scene. But it always starts with rarity or at the very least scarcity, it's a prerequisite. 

So true.

It brings desirability into the equation i think.

There are rare and scarce 45's ('Northern') that don't get played because they're less desirable.

There are 'versions' that are scarce and rare of known tunes that don't get played BUT, the same known non-rare/non-scarce version of said tunes that do.

52 minutes ago, Chalky said:

 

It’s always rare when you are selling something. 

yes- in the same way as you see so many selling Mint, Mint +, VG, VG, Ex+1.1 () palarva, etc, etc, etc. (Carolina Soul the exception i can think of instantly who grades just Good, etc often). 

19 minutes ago, Solidsoul said:

Maybe best not to discuss Ralphs sales while he currently trying to sell the item! 

point taken...i should have used different examples. a bit lazy of me, and it just came up

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

Begging to have a quantifiable 'terminology based on an approximative estimation inventory of the 'rarest' (less than 5), 'very rare' (less than 50), 'rare' (less than 250), 'a bit rare' (less than 500); 'no that rare' (less than 1.000) and 'not rare' (plenty). While prices or market values (median auctions can be the measure of that) is something else indeed.

What was considered 'very rare' at first is sometimes not after a while once it's valued to change hands for 'appealing' amounts and come out of collections and into the 'light'. Or until a batch of NOS comes onto the market. To have a constant 'inventory' should determine that but IMO is not possible at all times ? To be approximative is good enough.

So..Ralph has just posted (for sale) Dorothy Beery as rare £250. Is it rare or scarce, neither or both? And I’m not having a go at Ralph for his description, but it does normalise the term “rare” when perhaps it’s not.

11 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Vert interchangeable and status can change fast

Rare definition : Uncommon, extraordinary, rarefied.

Scarce definition : Short in supply, hard to find, rare.

agree.

what i was driving at was e.g. Scarce : a 200-300 stock copy count all in collections. Rare: only 5-10 count known worldwide.

9 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Carstairs is a truly crazy price.  The market is fcuked, i don’t care how much it is hyped, how worldwide it is, £150 just a few years ago, £300 just a couple of months ago.  To quadruple in a matter of months just shows the lack of common sense in some buyers. 

let's hope they really love it and keep it or they get burned later down the line if they try to sell it and the price drops to what it should be

more scarce than rare...although i accept they can and are often interchanged

24 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I did say in another post by the time imports were what everyone was chasing and by the time of the Torch and certainly by the time of the the Catacombs, VaVas, Mecca, Wigan. 

yes Chalky - e.g. "I'll always love you" , Spinners

@Roburt

As interesting as your 2 previous posts are (to me)...only you could confess to not having any idea or caring about rarity, but then turn those 2 posts into something entirely different. 

take it in good heart 

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

Kim in 81 is a bloke

explains it. ta

i don't think Kim who came 2nd in 1974 is the same Kim who came 3rd in 1981...unless she used a married name?

On 25/01/2020 at 21:42, Frankie Crocker said:

Steve Caesar from Leeds won the first one. Gethro Jones of Wolverhampton was third. A young lady was second but I do not know her name - she might have been the lass who featured in This England, a laundry worker from Leigh but I’m very hazy on this.

the young lady who was 2nd was Kim.

yes...you'll fall over that version if you do a discogs search

Their 45 has come up for sale again (Aug 2023) on Rare Norther Soul.com and it reminded of this Dave Thorley OP/thread which…

…Prompted me to add an unknown (or perhaps not widely known) Footnote on DSoF.

In July 1971 a three-car wreck near Carmi Illinois on route South to Paducah on US460 saw 5 members of a band injured and 1 member killed. The injured band members were Buddy Jarrett, William McBroom, Nathan Trabue, Aaron Purdie and Mike Baker. The band member killed in the accident was 20year old Gilespie Taylor, member & manager of DSoF.

It’s possible by this time the Detroit part of DSoF had been dropped for just Sound of Fiction.

i guess you know?..Sylves was Sylvester Willams ( Porgy's dad). There was also a Sylvester Williams Jr (Porgy's brother).

I think she could be Joan Baker Young( married name, although divorced). She was originally from Kenosha, Wisconsin. IF so ( I have no way of connecting her to the 45 record or its credits) this Joan Baker was in shows, became a night club “belter”( voice wise), and pretty much left music behind to raise a family ( son & daughter). 

Tap to view this Soul Source News/Article in full

1 hour ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

You are correct on the first point - I highlighted a selection of text quoted by you, and it came up as being directly from you. Blame the site. As for the second part, there an awful lot of people who do think exactly that, including me. 

Anyway, we've all digressed. Was the northern soul prom enjoyable? Yes, it was. It was way better than expected - a lot of people here think that. Did it dilute or harm the supposed 'scene'? No. 

Are there two main scenes - the nostalgia-facing one and the progressive one? Yes.

Are some people, on this bisected scene, regardless of which half they're on, snobbish or elitist? Yes. 

Will opposing sides ever agree on anything in this discussion? No. And if they do or don't, does it change anything?

No.

 

 

 

 

@Source Team

is this (above) a system glitch re: highlighting text from a post and it then being attributable to the poster that quoted it.

18 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Someone here, I don’t recall whom, suggested members of such a celebrated body as the BBC concert orchestra were nothing more than factory workers going about their daily, mundane duties. No soul, no interest. Just journeymen. That’s rubbish. You don’t get to participate in that orchestra unless you are excellent, top quality - and you have both a comprehensive understanding of the music and a deep appreciation of how it needs to be played. They understood, and did it with fabulous gusto!

We will never again see the likes of that performance.

One thing that bugs me is that only one or two comments here refer to the original artists - and those who arranged, performed, sung, were involved - in the songs when they were released with such hope back in the day.

Rather than respect or celebrate the public acknowledgement of their work, some are entirely selfish: I don’t want their songs to be widely known - I want to keep them to myself. Celebrating their success (often after they’ve died) is a sell-out… for me. I want to keep the songs and the artists/writers/arrangers in the dark so that only I know them.

Every singer/writer/arranger/ - anyone who gets involved in the music business - sought fame, success and wealth. Sadly, there are people who would prefer it if that didn’t happen - just for their own self-interested sense of keeping great but not widely appreciated or slightly known music unavailable to a broader public, which was the entire aim of the tunes we like being recorded in the first instance.

Hey, I might even play your long forgotten record - but I’ll not acknowledge you and instead give you a made-up name - just so I can be seen as having secret ownership of what you created.

I want to keep your great song buried; I don’t want anybody else to know you made this; I want to keep you underground - just so I can show you off and play you as a trophy for me.

 

 

 

 

Is this really the case Russ? 

"I don’t want their songs to be widely known - I want to keep them to myself.  I want to keep the songs and the artists/writers/arrangers in the dark so that only I know them. I want to keep your great song buried; I don’t want anybody else to know you made this; I want to keep you underground - just so I can show you off and play you as a trophy for me".

Or is it, people(some) just want to hear them the way they were recorded?

On 08/07/2023 at 09:42, Kenb said:

I have Joe Vaccerino’s Baltimore Sounds (Big book)… but not at home until 18th. When I am back I’ll check these out for you, and get back to you. They are more than likely in there.

@Roburt

Calvin Brooks- there is one entry for Cal Brooks in Joe Vaccarino's Baltimore Sounds

1. 1966, The Peakes a jaz/pop duo. Cal with Al McDonald.

There is no picture in Joe's book...so here's one for you

Benny Johnson has 3 entries in Joe Vaccarino's Baltimore Sounds

1. Benny Johnson & Soul Serenaders featured Gloria Brooks

2. 60's-70's-BennyJohnson quintet -1966 "Fresh Out of Tears" on Tarx & Today labels

3. 1980's Benny Johnson in a group, called In-Flight managed by Es Cade of Cade Productions