pow wow mik

I cant believe that. I collected records for 10 years before I spent £50 on a single record. Fair enough, it was different times, but if people are willing to spend these amounts yet dont have a clue about what they're buying then they are still responsible, additionally lazy, dim and too rich.

Not having a go, but you say youre 'primarily in it for the music' yet 'enjoy it better in the vinyl format'. That just isnt rational sorry, you cant present it as a rational argument. Vinyl is only a collectable, as a practical means of listening to music, its long since been superceded. The only non-collectable value to vinyl is djs and collectors finding newies, which to date only exist on original vinyl. whatever way you dress it up, the reality is that its pretending to do something and somewhat inexplicable. I love music, I collect records. The majority of music I like, I dont have on original vinyl, so listen to on itunes, or burn cds and listen to them, how on earth would my enjoyment of, say, hamilton movement, be enhanced by listening to it on a pretend old 45? no vitriol; I just dont understand this weird in-between place, and I dont believe it can be justified. and its not a life and death issue, no one said it was; but that's not a valid defence of anything. I couldnt defend walking in around town with a scrubs on and stethoscope round my neck pretending to be a surgeon by saying that there's worse things happening in the world - it'd still be weird behaviour and you'd have to say I was a bit of a knob for doing it. And its not only terrible things that matter in life....more damage to civilisation is done by things like Croc shoes and Coldplay than you'd think.

Strange world of record collecting I guess, no stranger than that daryl banks 45, or price differences between first and second labels - part club track, part collectable. Must confess to paying around E250 for it myself some years ago...just a nice thing to have I guess. it's a strange track in other ways too: must be the most popular record relative to how hard it is to dance to. Love it, but real foot-tangler imo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/181637535018?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT here's an example - maybe seller is unaware, certainly doesnt say. Just crap cluttering up the place, poluting the music and the spirit of record collecting with its cheapness, and for what? For someone to make a bit of money and someone else to be an unnecesary dj - both though depending on other people doing it the right way. In response to above posts - no, I dont buy fake clothes either, but its not the same anyway ; casual wear isn't a beautiful artform that should be loved and respected, and doesn't support or sustain grass roots non-profiteering social culture. lot of us on here have been early on newies, had one offs, rarities, in demand records and acetates but haven't made boots of them or cashed in in any way. I'd rather graft for tenner an hour than squeezing money out of something good, that isnt mine to sell, or by creating superflous crap that enables chancers to appear on-trend. And I prove this by doing exactly that. Phil I'm shocked that big djs play boots on the northern scene, talk about having your cake and eating it. All I can say is that on the scene I've djed on for the last ten years - mod and r&b I suppose - I've never known anyone play a boot or reissue at a do ive been at. In 2008 I saw someone play that 70s mosquitos boot of manny corchado and pulled them up on it :-) should name and shame, I would. No good ever came of arse kissing, back slapping, double standards or cheating. Meaningful culture thrives on integrity.

We dont really want ebay trying to police the record market though do we? How would they definitively know what was authentic for a start, because you tell them? And how long before disputed releases get caught up in it, modern bootleg remixes and mash-ups etc. I think its better for all that the market is left alone, neither public or private institutions have the knowledge or incentive to control this, so would inevitably do so in a clumsy way. I suggest that we forget blaming ebay, or even the sellers, and put all tbe responsibility squarely on the people buying them. So many sell that its impossible that no one knows someone who's buying them. But having said that, I actually dont, so it must be a sub-subculture all of its own - the pretend record collecting scene, I wonder if they all meet up and buy and sell pretend big ticket 45s with monopoloy money.

I'm confused now, where did verve and stateside come into it? I thought both versions were on United Artists 45s, the good version French only and the crap live version UK only.

Totally different tempo but now you mention it, the tune is very similar. That's 'tune', as in 'it has one'. I was probably a bit hard on 'monkey', its good music, well played and sung, but like a lot of these new funky spins, is lacking key elements like tune, chorus and hook. Call me conventional, but for my $500 I'd want at least one of the above. The horn bit is the only thing that stands out imo. however, if you search 'sold' funk 45 in price order, you find things for $1000s that aren't even sung in tune. I guess I'm just not down with the tone-deaf funk kids :-)

'Say yeah'? Had em both and sold em both but as far as I remember, exactly the same

Slave kicks monkey all over, monkey's kind of tuneless. Crazy price for monkey recently on ebay, I dont get it. I understand great records going up in price as they get more exposure, but why do average records suddenly go up?

Earl connelly and lou lawton around 150 each? Barry white went crazy for a while, considering its quite common. Dont know if its gone down or up since but does seem to have dried up a bit...300 probably. edit : goes to show how unpredictable the market is these days - out of interest I looked up lou lawton on collectorfrenzy, a record that was 150 for a good 20 years since it was first played really, and you'd have thought still residing in the Sunshine Pastures retirement home for overplayed novelty records - and there one is $800+! I like the record but had my fill of it, some either rich newbies or just straight-up loonies out there; must be a lot of these around. is it an oldies favourite or what? another edit : but having said that, I suppose if you've been into it ten years, which is quite a long time, you could never have heard this out

You dont see that version of cleveland robinson much; weird how the much inferior 1011 version with the bongos and bloody mouth organ is much more common, suggesting it was more successful. I'd say 300-400 at least for the 1006 version. you selling a george jackson?

I think it's the same tracks with instruments over-dubbed on the up-down release, definitely adding more oomph but the percussion is a bit out of time, a good idea though as it transforms the song. having said that, I like the Hull version, as a cool r&b dancer; about 10 years ago I used to mix the two when djing, there was footage on youtube of a club where I'm doing it, and f*cking up the cut

The problem with that outlook is that even the most rational proposition or belief might be considered ludicrous by someone - evolution for example - who then exercises their right to abuse and offend and everything descends into abuse and counter-abuse instead of reasonable debate. I've been abused often on here for stating opinions, yet I try to restrain myself from abusing others, for the dignity of myself and the forum.

Mary stallings quite common imo, was considering a buy-it-now on ebay which must gave been up there a year, and while a nice jazzy r&b track, not a comfortable dancer

Do you mean johnny zamot - you dig? ?

Dont like to single anyone out cos great, imaginative music from all, but I'm stunned by richard johnstone's playlist particularly and by the fact that there's places playing a mix of stuff like that. Congrats to all involved

What is this? Everything I say is obviously only my opinion, or do I have to use that old passive/aggressive favourite :'IMO' all the time. point I'm making is : we dont have a clue whether the artists got paid or rubber-dicked on loads of old records ; lots may be technically boots without us knowing, in the same way that this might be. And its not for me to have to find out whether the right parties were paid for the rights to a record every time; knowing the order of release is relatively a far less grey area. also, the legality issue is important in general moral terms, but not relevent to djing; legality isnt a major part of the djing code.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNQ2BY2SbIM $5 but fantastic:

in djing terms, a bootleg is acceptable if its the first or only release, must be 100s of examples of this. It's re-issues that are the no-no! ]

I struggled to sell it a few years ago Pete, got maybe £100 - £150 in the end. Think gav got one off ebay for $80 or so last year, not sure what condition but probably not good. I chased it when I first heard it around 2003, but it doesnt get better with listens - she's not a great singer, at least not on this

He got 'ordinary joe' played on national daytime radio, he the man as far as I'm concerned. And I've never listened to his funk show without hearing at least one great new release. it'd be bonafide progress if the alan partridge generation's influence is on the slide and my generation's classics take over

Great track, are the uk and us different versions ? Also nice version done by hoyt axton

Say what you want about Craig Charles byt he did Steve wright's afternoon show on friday - normally strictly an average white guy zone, and for daytime radio, the music was great. About 80% black music, pop and lesser known stuff.. about the ratio it would be if programming were based on quality of music. It was like a parallel universe where racism had never happened, he obviously makes certain demands and good on him

Mellorfull, thanks for your reply. I think the point is being missed though. Firstly, of course collecting originals doesn't make someone a dj; that is to re-arrange the logic. A good knowledgable dj just will necesarily collect originals - they'd have to in order to have newies and rarities - and therefore dont need to play boots. Its irrelevent that some collectors make bad djs. The whole debate needs to start from an assumption that were talking about people who can dj, as there will be those who can and can't in both camps, cancelling each other out. it is also irrelevent that you could do a good set with bootlegs / pressings...well of course you could, thats the point. I could do a killer northern set with boots and I'm not even a northern dj and that's the point - i'm not the one you want playing northern, i only have a vague knowledge of it. i might do a great set but then what? Only one option - i play my set of obvious boots again and again, adding the odd one maybe, but essentially i might as well be a robot or a lap top, as i'm adding zero of my own initiative or imagination. Basically why me and not you behind the decks? its not about the audio mechanics of playing a single record. no one would notice if i swapped an original for a boot in a set, that isnt the point. The point is that everyone knows that i dont need to be playing no boots because i had the originals before they were booted, and if i didn't, then one of the other djs has, and we've got loads more besides, and if none of us have got the original, then fuck it, it doesnt get played til one of us gets it, what's the rush? And then finally, when it is heard, its heard in the right environment, with its novelty intact. like when mace played the nightriders for the first time at our club few weeks ago. We could have played it off boot for years but we didnt so that the right person would have that privilage when they got a copy. that's exceptional though, and a shame when it happens that way round. no bootlegs, and it wouldnt, and the track wouldn't be degraded in the countries pubs before it got played at a proper club I personally am not listening to any bootleg dj or going to any club where they at, cos they're not offering anything unique, so I dont see why they're up behind the decks over any other random person - it really is the ultimate conceit. The only exception would be if someone was a top top party dj at a non specialist club, in which case ovo goes out the window. Such djs are happy to play off laptops or 12"s though in my experience and dont need to be pretending to have a rare record. I have no problem with that, its purely the passing off that I have an issue with. I dont even care about the legal issues that much. Just the representation of the music being in the hands of those who care and who dont pretend to be something they're not ; fakery and short-cuts - not exactly sign of good character is it?

no one cares about podcasts, you're right - its like doing someone a cd - a listening experience and a favour, in doing it, you're not promoting yourself as a dj. in clubs / even online dj mixes, its a different story. Ovo is simply a way of ensuring that its serious collectors providing the soundtrack, the theory being, and mostly its right, that the serious effort / thought / money that goes into putting together a good set of originals ensures that only the most passionate about records get the gigs. Also, the difficulty of getting the records you want, the impossibility almost, of having all the biggies all the time, forces peoples' sets to be more varied and reflective of their own tastes, than they might be, as it forces the collector to prioritise. and why? Because its people who are passionate about records who keep the market going, and its the market that keeps and has always kept the newies and rarities from the dump. that slight incentive - for a collector to express their taste and their efforts via a dj spot, is the top of the pyramid and from it the entire show is sustained. And apart from anything else, theres no shortage of djs so we might as well have the most knowledgable selecting for us. Thats not to say that all collectors are knowledgable and all non collectors are not, but I've never heard of a good dj who needs to play boots. it's funny that the ovo djs get a sort of reputation for arrogance when in fact I think it's bootleg djs who have the most arrogance ; without original vinyl, what, exactly, are you selling? Your taste? Ha ha pete is something of an anomoly - strangely attached to vinyl for reasons even he can't quite explain, though the reasons are undoubtedly emotional rather than practical. He is knowledgable, but doesn't want to be a dj. Somehow, I dont think your average bootleg buyer is like that. it could be harmless, a million djs playing a billion boots every weekend, in a million pubs and bars. Or maybe, without that easy option, people craving a dose of soul would be forced to go to proper nights, commit a bit more to it and get a lot more out of it; and they might experience their soul in an environment and atmosphere approaching that which the music deserves. Good things simply are rare, accept it. Having a half-arsed dj on every corner doesn't spread good art, the good representations are still as rare, it just clutters up tbe route to them...like painting rocks gold and believing we are rich.