Phild

"But like Mel has been saying, they were only banded as Northern Soul "Monsters" "after" they became dance floor fillers at the clubs, nobody said "these are Northern Soul records so play them", or the like." Maybe those particular exapmples I've cited were but take a look back at the magazines and see the ads for new "Northern Soul" releases It is only recently (and then exceptions are made when certain members of the Soul Police allow) that it has been felt that Northern Soul means OLD. It doesn't. Right through this scene from its very inception new release records have been played alongside old classics. The sound and the beat makes it Northern Soul NOT the age of the recording, or whether it was recorded in a professional studio or somebody's shed. That's all irrelevant. Fair enough, but still find fun in the oldies /newies debate But again the same thing applies whatever the age, they become classics because people like them & so they get played. People like them because they get played In my opinion people have got themselves all flustered over these particular recordings simply because of the name Levine being attached to them. The very mention of Levine gets people worked up. Look at the number of postings and views on every topic he's mentioned in - I rest my case. Look at the example of the, now infamous, Four Vandals record. When it was percieved to be 30 odd years old it was Northern Soul. Once Levine's involvement was revealed it was all of a sudden crap. Disagree Phil, as i said in an earlier post, people are just commenting on the music. & as for the now infamous Four Vandals record, i think that is more likely what IL & friends would like us to believe. I remember a friend playing it to me & my reaction was "It's not terrible, but it dosen't sound right somehow ? sounds like it was made yesterday" & i have yet to meet anyone, then or now who has not said something similar. The well known collectors and DJ's on the scene who paid big money and played it when it first came over from America didn't think it sounded dodgy I 've listened to all the tracks on the net from this album that are on the net now and I would say that yes, they are Northern Soul. There are reminiscences of Northern tracks we all know in most of them. But that's only to be expected, that's where the guy drew all his influences from. And as for synthesizers? I didn't hear a single one. Samples maybe, but samples of real instruments played by real musicians. But that's totally different to a synthesizer. And there is definitely not a drum machine to be heard anywhere. I'm sorry Phil but if that is the case i applaud that drummer because he does a mega impression of a drum machine loop ! No he doesn't. Someone has done a good job of sampling him and then using the sample creatively. But he's a real drummer NOT a drum machine As far as I'm concerned if you don't like it, don't buy it. I for one will buy a copy when it comes out, and I'm sure many others will. And who knows, maybe one day some of these recordings will be played at a Northern Soul venue. I for one don't see why not. That's my two pennorth anyway. Phil Well good luck to you Phil, if you like it that's all that really matters Just in the same way as we that don't won't buy it. & i would hope you understand our opinions are based on what we have heard & nothing else, & we have just as much right to it as those who disagree with us. It just seems to me that where IL is concerened if you say you don't like what he has made his fans imediatley cry out "personal attack" People can like or dislike whatever they want. That's their prerogative. But it's not just a case of people saying that is it? It's the old let's slag off Levine routine by quite a few too

A prime illustration of the difference between a simply NORTHERN soul fan and a Northern and Rare Soul fan and collector. My wife -- Northern Soul fan through & through. Loves to dance, loves the music etc. I'm in the process of sorting through my records to sell. Doubles, triples etc etc. Anywaty I'm playing Lester Tipton on La Beat and my missus says that's a bit crackly are you getting rid of that one. Is it worth anything, would anyb ody buy it? I'm like people would bite my hand off for it. So she says well you should sell it then because mine's in much better condition and it plays with no noise at all. I tell her but yours is on Grapevine. And she says so what? It sounds much better than yours and the label looks much nicer. Quad Erat Demonstrandum Phil

As I have stated earlier it depends what your definition of Northern Soul is. As you have stated your definition is "to your mind" your definition. It's maybe not shared by the majority. Your definition stated in your first paragraph has a certain nostalgia about it, but it's far removed from the reality. Practically all of the records that you no doubt love and class as Northern Soul were made with one aim in mind - to sell records and therefore make money. I am not saying that they were not made with vibrancy, energy and enthusuasm - they undoubtedly were. But that vibrancy energy and enthusiasm was because they had, in some cases, dreams of stardom but in a lot of cases they just wanted to sell records and make a little money. Do you think that the people who made these records had the amibition of selling no records only to be looked upon findle 40 years later by a load of 30-60 year olds in the UK? I'm sure they enjoy the attention now, of course they do. It must be great being given respect for something you did 40 years ago that failed,. but I thinkm given the choice they would have much rather benn the next Marvin or Diana, than go back to the factory or wherever. What is the difference between a tailor-made cash-in Motown soundalike made in 1967 and a 2007 recording inspired by the Northern Soul scene? What's the difference then between that and a tailor-made soul record made in the 1970's to cash-in on the burgeoning Northern Soul scene? The Northern Soul scene, although popular all over the globe these days, could only ever have been invented in Britain where we celebrate failure Also, I think you look back upon the roots of some of these records with rose tinted glasses. "music that was lost from the mainstream" - what on earth does that mean? It means it didn't sell enough records. NOT that they didn't WANT to sell millions of copies. Anyway some off the records played on the scene sold very, very healthy numbers, so that puts paid to that part of the definition. Of course Ian Levine wants to make money out of his recordings (he'd be a fool if he didn't), but then so has every record producer who's ever made a record. And you say that you prefer Levine's work with Take That? No Northern Soul inspiration on any of those recordings now was there? In fact if you take that (no pun intended) a step further. How would you have felt if Take That had had a massive Levine produced hit with a reworking of a Northern Soul Classic? Or if their album had benn called Northernsoul 1994? I think, with respect, that you like many others are confusing the Northern Soul scene with the Rare Soul collecting scene. They are not the same. Phil

How much does the red label original go for? I have one available. Cheers Phil

I think that gets to the real crux of the matter. It's not whether or not we actually like the music Ian Levine has produced in itself, it's whether Ian has the God given RIGHT to call what he has done "Northern Soul", when (as far as I know) the term is one decided collectively, NOT "imposed from above", whether by Ian Levine or anyone else. Who are the people who decide collectively? A small bunch of collectors or the general public? What gives someone the right to be able to join the decison making collective? Because many of us are indeed "fifty something" (yeah, like Ian Levine is Peter Pan!) some of us remember the times when UK record companies, in their attempts to impose some of their more dodgy tailor-mades off as "genuine Northern Soul" onto both us and the pop-buying public alike, debased and diluted the scene and did untold damage to both it's Soul credibility and genuine sense of unity. And some of those who were brought onto the scene by these crass marketing attempts are now stalwarts of the scene are they not? Indeed, if the UK Rare Soul scene has any unique and redeeming feature at all it is that it remains a "collective" endeavour fiercely resistant to undue influence from the record company's marketing men, and yes it can occasionally appear insular because of it. Better that than falling prey to the cynical manipulations of the music industry however, because we all know what a disaster that can be for musical quality - which is exactly why the Northern Scene "opted out" of mainstream pop in the first place! And that's the crux of it. You're confusing the RARE soul scene with the NORTHERN soul scene. The RARE soul scene is mostly about chin stroking collectors (I should know I'm one of 'em), and the NORTHERN scene was always about the music, the music and nothing but the music. The Northern and Rare soul scenes have been uncomfortable bedfellows for many a decade. The Northen Soul scene is about people going out and listening and dancing to the music that they like, and maybe buy a few tunes evrey now and then and don't care if it's on bootleg, pressing or CD or MP3. Don't care who sings it, produces it oer whatever. They just care if they like it. Phil

I really must disagree with this. This album cannot possibly be compared to M People. Northern Soul music is defined by the "style" of the music. M People entitled their album as a clever play on words. they were certainly from the north and their music was certainly contemporary soul music. At the roots of Northern Soul is the 4 x 4 beat typified by Motown and perfected in records like the Supremes "Love Is Like An Itching..." that is pure Northern Soul but their "Baby Love" isn't. Like it or not, the Javells "Goodbye Nothing To say" is Northern Soul, "Right Back Where We Started From" is Northern Soul, Gary Lewis & The Playboys is Northern Soul. It may not be rare, obscure collectable but the beat is pure Northern Soul. That's why such records filled dancefloors. It is only recently (and then exceptions are made when certain members of the Soul Police allow) that it has been felt that Northern Soul means OLD. It doesn't. Right through this scene from its very inception new release records have been played alongside old classics. The sound and the beat makes it Northern Soul NOT the age of the recording, or whether it was recorded in a professional studio or somebody's shed. That's all irrelevant. In my opinion people have got themselves all flustered over these particular recordings simply because of the name Levine being attached to them. The very mention of Levine gets people worked up. Look at the number of postings and views on every topic he's mentioned in - I rest my case. Look at the example of the, now infamous, Four Vandals record. When it was percieved to be 30 odd years old it was Northern Soul. Once Levine's involvement was revealed it was all of a sudden crap. What's the difference between these recordings being called Northern Soul and his recordings of 30 plus years ago (Evelyn Thomas, Exciters, James Wells et al) being tagged as Northern Soul as new releases? I can't see any difference at all. I 've listened to all the tracks on the net from this album that are on the net now and I would say that yes, they are Northern Soul. There are reminiscences of Northern tracks we all know in most of them. But that's only to be expected, that's where the guy drew all his influences from. And as for synthesizers? I didn't hear a single one. Samples maybe, but samples of real instruments played by real musicians. But that's totally different to a synthesizer. And there is definitely not a drum machine to be heard anywhere. As far as I'm concerned if you don't like it, don't buy it. I for one will buy a copy when it comes out, and I'm sure many others will. And who knows, maybe one day some of these recordings will be played at a Northern Soul venue. I for one don't see why not. That's my two pennorth anyway. Phil

bump up

Can't really remember what my last one was. Probably a Sheridans do in 2002 or 2003. I missed 'em like crazy for a while, but not any longer. I now can't see any circumstances that would ever tempt me to go to one again. I don't even really go to soul nights any more, probably been to 3 in the last 4 years or so. I still listen to the music as much as ever though. Phil

bumpety bump

Absolutely But I reckon it'll stay that way most of the season. That's all that matters to myself and many other Town fans. Just stay atop Leeds.

He'll just cancel the auction before it ends. No problem. Folks do it all the time. Phil PS - Nice to see Huddersfield Town's name right above Leeds United on the league listings Just hope it stays that way

bump

Does anybody know if there's anything going on soul-wise in Dublin this weekend? Gonna be there Friday 3rd & Saturday 4th. Cheers Phil

**NOW REDUCED IN PRICE** I've sorted out now about 2000 45's to sell. I'm going to put them on Ebay, but first I'll put them on here at (I think) reasonable prices. I'll be listing them in chunks of 30 to 50 as regularly as I get time. They are a total mixed bag of stuff in absolutely no order whatsoever (maybe a little bit alphabetical in places), so there will be 60's mixed in with 70's / 80's, good stuff mixed in with rubbish. Paypal is fine postage is at the rates below. Chris Clark - I want To Go Back There Again / I Love You - VIP 25041 - VG £6.00 SOLD Wille Cager - He's A Player / What Can You Do - Contact 504 -EX Chocolate Syrup - Just In The Nick Of Time / You've Got A Lot To Give - Brown Dog BD9000 - M £8.00 Lou Courtney - What Do You Want Me To Do / Beware - Rags R-100 - VG (slight wol) £5.00 Bobby Caldwell - What You Won't Do For Love / Love Won't Wait - Clouds 11 - VG+ £5.00 Little Carl Carlton - Look At Mary Wonder / Bad For Each Other - Back Beat 603 - M- £10.00 Little Carl Carlton - Why Don't They Leave Us Alone / 46 Drums - 1 Guitar- Back Beat 598 - VG- £5.00 The Casinos - I Still Love You / Then You can Tell Me Goodbye - Fraternity F977 - VG £5.00 The C.O.D.'s - I'm A Good Guy / Pretty Baby - Kellmac 1005 - M- £8.00 The Chymes - My Baby's Gone Away / Where I Come From - Down To Earth 71 - M- £10.00 Linda Carr - In My Life / I Feel Love Coming On - Ranwood 806 - M- £10.00 Dee Clark - In My Apartment / I Ain't Gonna Be Your Fool - Constellation C-142 - G- has scuffs, scratches but amazingly still plays OK £2.00 Chubby Checker - Do The Freddie / (At The) Discotheque - Parkway P-949 white label DJ Copy - VG £10.00 Devonnes - I'm Gonna Pick Up My Toys (And Go Home) / Limits - Colossus CS-142 - VG+ £10.00 Earl Van Dyke - 6 by 6 / There Is No Greater Love - Soul S-35028 - VG+ £8.00 - SOLD The Ethics - Searching / Sad, Sad Story - Vent 1004 - VG £10.00 The Escorts - Sing A Happy Song / Heart Of Gold - Knockout 10146 - M- £5.00 Fantastic Four - Goddess Of Love / Love Is A Many-Splendored Thing - Ric-Tic RT-136 - M- £5.00 Marvin Holmes & Justice - You Better Keep Her / Kwami - Brown Door MH-6576 - M- £15.00 Margie Hendrix - On The Right Track / Restless - Mercury 72701 - EX £12.00 The Enchanters - You Were Meant To Be My baby / God Bless The Girl And Me - Loma 2035 - VG £10.00 Festivals - Baby Show It / Take Your Time - Colossus CS-136 - M- £10.00 Lovemasters - Pushin' And Pullin' / Love Train - Jacklyn 1009 - EX £12.00 Kim Weston - Take Me In Your Arms (Rock Me A Little While) / Don't Compare Me With Her - Gordy G-7046 - M- £8.00 SOLD Young-Holt Unlimited - California Montage / Straight Ahead - Brunswick 755417 - M- £8.00 The Precisions - Why Girl / What I Want - Drew D1002 - VG- £5.00 The Poets - So Young (And So Innocent) / A Sure Thing - Symbol 45-216 - M- £10.00 Scientists Of Soul - Be's That-A-Way Sometimes / Baby Bay I Love You - KaShE 442 - VG- £5.00 Bettye Swann - I Think I'm Falling In Love / Don't Take My Mind - Money 136 - VG-£5.00 Bettye Swann - Fall In Love With Me / Lonely Love - Money 129 - VG-£5.00 Larry Williams & Johnny Watson - Mercy, Mercy, Mercy / A Quitter Never Wins - Okeh 4-7274 - VG+ £12.00 The Superiors - What Would I do / Tell me To Go - Verve VK-10370 Yellow Label Promo, water damage to label, vinyl VG+ £10.00 The O'Jays - One Night Affair / There's Someone (Waiting Back Home) - Neptune N-12 - VG+ £5.00 Jimmy Norman - I Wanna Make Love To You (Mono) / Same (Stereo) - Buddah BDA-504-N Promo - M £10.00 Diana Newby - What You're Putting Me Through / Say It Again - Kapp K-692 - VG+ £18.00 Johnny Nash - Good Goodness / You Never Know - MGM K13683 - VG+ £10.00 SOLD Barret Strong - Love Is You / You Make Me Feel The Way - Coup CP-2007 - VG+ £8.00 Cheers Phil RecordsRecorded Delivery Special Delivery with CompensationNo InsuranceInsured up to £32up to £250 up to £1000up to £25001£2.05£5.50£6.00£6.80£1.252£2.33£5.50£6.00£6.80£1.403£2.46£5.50£6.00£6.80£1.534£2.60£5.50£6.00£6.80£1.665£3.00£5.50£6.00£6.80£1.806£2.95£5.50£6.00£6.80£1.987£3.13£5.50£6.00£6.80£2.158£3.48£5.50£6.00£6.80£2.339£3.78£6.50£7.00£8.00£2.6810£4.10£6.50£7.00£8.00£3.03

I'd like the following: STML SERIES 11218 TEMPS ALL DIRECTIONS 5 11219 VAL SIMPSON SAME (SILLY WASN'T I) ? OFFERS 11264 GLADYS ALL I NEED IS TIME 5 11268 STEVIE WONDER PRES SYREETA 5 11269 W.HUTCH FOXY BROWN 20 11293 SUPREMES SAME 5 I would like more but have to prioritise. Cheers Phil

It goes a bit like this ..... I look at the clouds and see another day breaking through I say here's another day, baby without you I'm trying hard just to carry on But I'm doing bad because she's gone, oh yeah she's gone 'Til I repossess the key to my happiness I'll go on this way 'Til I repossess the key to my happiness I'll go on this way, yeah I see the sun going down each day, and know what lies ahead Another nigh to cry out, tears in my lonely tear stained bed I'm trying hard to carry on But I'm doing bad because she's gone, oh yeah she's gone 'Til I repossess the key to my happiness I'll go on this way 'Til I repossess the key to my happiness I'll go on this way Gotta repossess the key to my happiness I gotta repossess the key to my happiness Come on, come on etc I love a you baby Phil

Which part in particular? Phil

Cheers Pete

I think it's a bit rich saying that there's no way these tracks can be called "Northern Soul". Why exactly? The breadth of stuff that have been played, through even the short amount of time since I first got on the scene, and called "Northern Soul" is unbelievable. And doesn't IL's Sidney Barnes track (21st century recording I believe?) get raved about in certain quarters. Northern Soul is only a nametag at best, not really a genre of music in the truest sense of the word. If "Northern Soul" is meant to be uptempo dance music performed by mainly African American artists then these tracks surely fall in to that category, just as much as the 50's rock n roll that some DJ's play as Northern Soul. I personally like most soul music and in particular mid to uptempo soul music made in the 1960's, but I do (since the turn of the century anyway) have time for a broader spectrum of music, and some of these tracks are, to my ears anyway, really quite good. I am sure that this latest album from IL is not aimed at the hardcore of people on this list. If it was made by someone that nobody had heard of would people dismiss the muisc as quickly? As for who it is aimed at? People who like catchy, uptempo songs performed by really good vocalists, perhaps? It doesn't matter one iota to the vast majority of the music buying public who produced it, whether the drum is real or synth or anything beyond whether they like it or not. A lot of people obviously do like this, and I'm sure a lot of people will buy it. Phil

Thanks for the offer mate. I may take you up on it one of these years Phil

Never been to one. Sounds like fun though. Although only having about zero friends these days it would be a quiet do at our house (apart from the music obviously) Phil

OK. I'll take it. PM me your details. Paypal OK? Cheers Phil

Which Taylor & Ward? Got an "Oh Lover" somewhere. Cheers Phil