Richard Bayley

Great work - and a fantastic read!

Superb article Rob - thank you! As soon as I saw Paul Riser's name in the header I thought of "Ain't no Mountain....." This article gives such great insight into how the music was made, as well as paying respect to a great talent.

Was it compulsory in the 70s to play "Band of Gold" at fairgrounds?

On the whole, I thought the show on R2 tonight wasn't bad. Obviously it was "Oldies" based, both in music and outlook, and raised Dave Godin's nightmare scenario of the soul scene becoming like the "Teddy Boy" scene - approvingly! When it was at its best, it was people talking about the thrill and passion of the music, the excitement of dancing and the strong social bonds built around the scene. Elaine and Tony Palmer's contributions were very entertaining, IMHO. Palmer's account of picking up the buzz from going to WC to film a couple of times (and his very obvious enthusiasm) was a great testimonial from an outsider's point of view. His observations about the fierce sense of collective ownership of the scene and its music he experienced were well put, too. I enjoyed Elaine's comments about the "otherness" of the music, the sight of guys dancing and way that the soul scene was, for so many, real chance to break away from small towns and small minds...... Obviously, the scene ceased to exist after Wigan closed...... until the over 50's found it kept them young at the Wheel Sunday sessions. The irony is, that without those DJs and promoters who kept the scene going in the 80s and 90s, and who helped expand the musical range of NS enormously, there would have been no scene to return to. A scene purely built on nostalgia for certain 60's records that were played in the '70's would not have lasted 40 years (and wouldn't deserve to) Oh, and Pete Roberts on drugs and the scene was honest and humerous!

Top post Azza (and mlad's too....) There's been far too much "they might enjoy it, but they won't enjoy it like we do..." on this thread - I guess old hands from the Wheel and Torch said much the same when they saw hordes of pilled-up teenagers descend on Wigan . A few canards on this thread - "they like city centre bars, but won't travel" - completely unfair! Quite a few get around a lot - and the sentiment masks the fact that the majority of the UK's northern soul scene these days largely sticks to its own environs, attending largely oldies-based soul nights (sad but true). Access to nighters is a real issue for newer punters - usually solved by a healthy interaction between the soul generations. And hasn't that always been the case? I couldn't begin to count the number of times old soul veterans have told me when starting out, how they were taken under the wing, so to speak, of an older crew, who told them what was what, got them to nighters, bent their ears about taste in music, sorted their gear..... Also etiquette........ as far as I can see, the scene's "unwritten rules" are a plus point for newcomers - why not come to a night where there's no need for gorillas in suits to police the venue, where you can leave your coat, bags drinks where you like, largely free from the threat of thieving scrotes, and where the dancefloor isn't a moshpit - what's not to like? Oh, and if the grizzled nature of today's NS crowd is a problem, we just have to think about making venues a bit darker

Do you do dance classes?

A great summary of my views Gareth - how did you know?

Great post, Barry As a simple punter with broad tastes, the variety of music and nights keeps things fresh. I really don't get why people would want each event to have the same sounds and feel - although I accept that if a venue played a genre you really hated, you'd skip it. From my recent experience at the Euroculture weekender in Manchester, the European soul fans had no problems with the "genres" bleeding into one another. Speaking from personal experience, it really does help to listen and dance to sounds that are fresh to my ears amonst an "up for it" crowd, rather than hearing it as an opening set in front of two punters and a dog The good thing, from the soul scene's point of view, is that these events are taking place under under the same ethos and spirit - and some cases, the same roof - as events with more "traditional" sounds. If anything, I see it as a strengthening, rather than diluting the scene...... With all this "soul trending" going on, no need for folks to ponder about the "direction the scene is taking" .... a couple of years ago "gritty, uptempo '60's" was the new black, now overtaken by hastily-made cardboard signs in dealers' boxes, marked "funky northern":yes: If you missed it, don't worry - it'll be around again in a couple of years time, bumping back in to the folks who hadn't dropped it anyway....

Sometimes, I think that David Ruffin could sing from the phone book, and fill it with pain and righteous indignation....... when coupled with a brilliant lyric, for me it's irresistable :- Sunshine, blue skies, please go away.... The girl has found another, and gone away With her went my future, My life is filled with gloom So day after day, I stay locked up in my room... I know to you, it might sound strange.... But I wish it would rain...... Magic!

Hmm, Imelda Marcos....... didn't she do a version of "Shoes"?

OK then Webby, I'll stick my neck out with these three :- Rudy Love - Sufferin' Wrath Billy Byrd - Lost in a Crowd Ricky Allen - Cut You Loose (the version on Tampoo) Last two are definitely on Refosoul, and that nice Mr Croasdell has put Rudy Love on Kent's recent "Northern Soul's Classiest Rarities Vol 4", along with a more mid-tempo funky tune Salt & Pepper's "Man of My Word" All top tunes, IMHO!

I think the J J Barnes version is called "Ain't It The Truth", and was unreleased at the time - it appeared on either the 1st or 2nd "Cellarful of Motown" CD of unreleased material. Don't think it had a 7" vinyl release.....

Best one I've seen Steve pull recently (ie this year) is a wet-handed "fist bump" with a punter leaving a venue, in the hope of getting the door stamp to rub off on him - it worked! :lol:

I think the Barbara Mercer version is fantastic:thumbsup: - far prefer it to the Shawn Robinson version. I've heard Mr Fingers play the instrumental as the Funk Bros (acetate?) - he played it at the Wilton last year.

Correct - actually, my tapes weren't blank, just slightly fast and very lo-fi Think I've still got one Charlie, who used to work there, comes to York Soul Club fairly regularly, and was spinning some Modern at the York Easter All-Dayer. The excellent Track Records shut in York a couple of years ago , not much soul vinyl but a superb Soul CD section.....

How about this for a bass-driven double-sider... Edwin Starr - Time/Running Back and Forth Would that have been Bob Babbitt playing the bass?

Heard this for the first time on Saturday Martyn, when you spun it in the upstairs room at Tadcaster - great tune!

The Exits - Another Sundown in Watts

Personally, I wouldn't mind it if the template was lobbed off the front of the stage at every nighter I attend, if it lets DJ's spread their wings a bit What was it about the "Stafford generation" (for want of a better term) who had R&B and Modern tunes in the same room as well as more "traditional" Northern sounds?, Just more adventurous? Of course the template changes - thank God - it's called evolution. Lots of folk seem to want to define Northern Soul as "NS that I like", rather than "records that have been played on the NS scene" It's like Japanese soldiers emerging out of the Jungle after World War II ....... "Yes, they play the odd R&B, Modern and Latin spin these days, and there's even events whare the emphasis is more on soul than beat these days....... no, we didn't burn the Casino down deliberately, but don't worry you can listen to all your old favourites at a 1001 venues across the country... if you insist you can wear your old uniform"

Like you Matt, I like to dance to tunes that are new to me - perhaps the "comfort zone" is as much about the dancing as it is about musical taste ...... I understand the appeal of dancing to tunes when you know every beat and break (I sing along too ), but sometimes I despair at oldies nights when the floor clears on hearing the opening bars of something the dancers don't immediately recognise, especially if the DJ has done a good job in sequencing it - I'm not talking here about folk who enjoy the odd shuffle to their favourite tune (nothing wrong with that, before anybody bites my head off), but those dancers who give the floor some welly when they go out. Dancing on "auto-pilot", perhaps? On the plus side, new dance tunes do an excellent job of getting rid of some of the increasingly arthritic "floor work" I still occasionally see when out and about!

Our thread starter's avatar features the gorgeous Brenda Holloway, who was a talented string player herself. The notes to the recently released Ace CD "Brenda Holloway - The Early Years" has her learning violin, viola, flute, cello at school and even playing double bass in a jazz band! She apparently passed an audition to perform with the Southern California Symphony Orchestra as a violinist, out of 500 people from the schools of southern California. Brenda states that she was one of only seven black folk out of those 500.......

Be careful what you wish for ........ O/T, hope you and Lyd can make it to the Wilton on Friday 5th

Can't help but agree with Bob Elf about the importance and stature of the Sam Cooke original; of course, it's the deepest soul, but it really does transcend any debate about musical categories. Glad that I'm not the only one who sheds a tear when listening to this alone.... Gareth (as usual) is bang on about the haunting quality of the best versions. I seem to remember Bobby Womack, interviewed on BBC4's Sam Cooke documentary, saying that when Cooke first played it to him, he commented that it sounded like "...death". The sense that it is a musical epitaph is not just retrospectively imposed by the tragic circumstances of Cooke's demise. When someone sings that they are "too tired living.... but I'm afraid to die", this is a deathbed speech - alongside a righteous affirmation to African-Americans and Civil Rights campaigners that History (with a capital 'H') was on their side. When Ali beat Sonny Liston to win the World Heavyweight crown for the first time, he had Sam Cooke and Malcolm X in his corner. If Ricky Hatton ever fights Floyd Mayweather again ( ), I think he'll have to do better than Wayne Rooney

Like Dave, thought this was really quite good, with perceptive remarks both about the dance moves and the sharing of space on the dance floor. Strip away the "sociologese", and he's got some interesting things to say...... ....which makes it such a shame that he has to take us through Out On The Friggin' Floor