Dave Thorley

Mention this on another tread, also the Mac Simmons version used to be played at The Mecca, can't find it right now

I'm in the process of buying up every village hall, small dance hall etc as we speak. Dave

Fair point Said I'm not well. But have been to a fair few venues over the last few years, which when you arrive are clearly run for a few mate, have liitle athmosphere and are held in shabby little halls. But each does have say 50 or 60 there. Net result no one gets many in and you then get as we have seen week after week on the lookbacks treads 'bit quite last night', 'shame there weren't more there', 'would be OK with a few more in'. It's no different than satellite TV, the more stations the less the overall quality. Now I don't have the answer, it is a free world. People are getting old and a greater majority want a venue round the corner rather than drive 100+ miles, as many did way back when. But there are many small venues that are nothing more than youth club events with old people. Reality is that way back when there were lots of venues every weekend, but more people to go round, also the internet has made venues cheap to advertise and so more are visible than before. Before the internet, ad cost in Black Echoes or Blues and Soul meant that only the larger venues had national visability. But there were often local events on all over the country, again another difference was people would stop off at a soul nite on route to an allniter, far fewer people do two or three events in 24 hours as they used to. This is demonstrated by how few sunday alldayers there are now.

So which promoters will do the decent thing and close there venue down for the good of the scene I'll tell you none!!!!!!!! Have to agree with Pikey, all want to show off to their three mates what they got on ebay or paid even more on other auction sites. While the wife looks bored in the corner, believing that they got it at 'A good price, in trades'. That will be the record that was delivered to the works address. Sorry not feeling well Dave

Cozzie brought it up to Stafford the day he got back from the U.S. and gave a copy to me, Ian wasn't there that week and didn't get a copy for a couple of weeks till Stuart caught up with him. Was then played simultanously at both venues to be fair. Dave

Funny enough suffering the same myself, just off to bed, had enough for one day. Dave

The article was published in 1970 as you rightly said but not on the stroke of midnight 69/70. But some time in that year, infact I believe it was late 1970 and was describing what was happening at the time. And at that time new release independant tunes were also being played and called northern soul. This continued for the next few years without re-inventists saying a word, the split and attempted re-write didn't arrive untill the mid-70's. This tread is littered with examples of tunes named by myself and many others, infact you named several yourself in reply earlier, which you said you liked and were played as northern soul, even though you won't accept that. Dave Godin also had something else interesting to say about the scene on re-writes and definitions in his artical in Soulful Kinda Music. "The trouble with all art forms that come from the bottom up is that eventually, (when all element of real danger has passed, and only pretend danger still exists), they will be seized upon by those who at the time it was actually happening, stood timidly on the outer fringes of it all. Then, when they feel it is safe to do so, seek to move in to become the Kings of the Castle in a realm from which they were initially excluded from. It is indeed, if you like, the revenge of the nerds! Britain, perhaps more than any other culture, has this apparent obsession with pigeon-holing things, as if having everything properly arranged and defined ensures we all know our proper place, and presumably this orderly sense of certainty will then usher in the Peaceable Kingdom of God on earth! No such luck, matey! It's just a manifestation of neurotic insecurity." and he goes on to say "It also overlooks the fact that one of the great achievements of Blackamerican music is its constant ability and indeed, willingness, to absorb musical influences from all over the place, and of course, in a capitalist economy this will mostly be those from the records which are currently making the Top! This over-romanticised notion that some people have of Blackamerican performers and their music is in my view an albatross, albeit one that is orchestrated by a very tiny minority. Words like "purity" and "authenticity" are casually employed without any thought to what those words imply, and what is worse, Blackamerica itself has not been given any chance of input as to how such terms are defined. Of course when you are being interviewed, you soon pick up from where the interviewer is coming from, and it is understandable human nature that the interviewee will then proceed to give the sort of answers that he or she feels are expected of them, but privately, they may subsequently snort with derision. And indeed, why not? Of course the musical "purist" has little time for any record that is commercially successful as if the fact that it has made the charts demonstrates proof evidence that some serious degree of compromise must already have taken place. But, there is nothing new about two-faced double-think in the mind of folks who seek to dictate, and who want the world to become a reflection of their own personality. Look at the US government's constant cosying up to the Chinese government ("favoured trading nation status") which maintains an authoritarian grip over a country where the concept of "human rights" can hardly be said to exist, and compare it with their constant harrassment of poor little Cuba where at least you are still free to dance and shimmy if not to be cussed. And reflect too on how the politics of the last three years of Martin Luther King's life have been air-brushed out of memory. (And, for the record, (you read it here first!), I don't think history will judge Eddie Murphy too kindly.) " PS, you still haven't told me if your having a good day!!!!!! Dave

Pete You and I will never agree on this, and I'm sure we went to the Casino at the same time, some of the stuff you say isn't northern soul was played at Wigan and many other clubs as new tunes and was called 'Northern Soul', just cuz you don't like it and it dosn't fit your definition of 'Northern Soul', still doesn't mean it isn't. You didn't write the definition of what is, you can't re-write it. You will just have to accept you don't like all forms of Northern Soul, as it was originally played and termed. The definition, as I remember was coined by Dave Godin, to discribe obscure/non-hit soul music being played in clubs in the North West. In his original definition, there was no mention of 60's only. Also by the time he used the term lots of 70's funky, Philly floating tunes were being played and fell under his decription. The New definition (60's only) is Northern Soul, is a re-write by people who wish history hadn't happen the way it did cuz it dosn't fit the way they want the world to be. Hope your having a good day. Dave

Theres also a great version by Mac Simmons, that used to get played at the Mecca, can't find it now though

I think what this tread does demonstrate is the fragmentation, if not myopic view of the northern scene in some quarters. We have many that say 'This is my definition and it is the only definition and I'm not ready to accept any form of broader view'. Have said this before, but at the height of Wigan's fame, you could stand in the mainroom and hear 60's/70's street funk, classic 4 to the floor, disco, what is now call crossover, all under the name of northern soul. But now people seem to want to re-write history and say that never happen.

Yes, but you have to remember, that to many that venue is daan Saath

All down to definition, sounds like a northern tune to me

Hi Mate Who now has the Egg Roll, sold that to Keb many years ago on a Virtue studio disc. I thought he had tracked down who recorded it

Also, same old problem as with Modern Soul or Crossover. It's all down to definition, which changes with everyone you speak to. Many northern classics were as someone else has said, indead seen as funk in their day. Gene Chandler-There was a time(A James Brown tune) East Coast Connection-Summer in the parks Fabulous Moonlighters-Forgranted Diane Jenkins-I need you Edwin Starr-Time World Column-So is the sun To name but a few, all were released and promoted as funk. I have steered clear of later disco funk.

Odd Billy. You were in Hamburg a few months ago, played The Crow, pure street funk. The place was rockin'!!!!!! Also was a top tune in the heyday of the scene along with tunes like Flaming Emeralds.

To be fair you use professional and DJ in the same sentance on here

Or a heavy Italian accent and mention Sicily alot

Got a mention in the Lamont Dozier tread last week. Production by McKinley Jackson, stunner that is overlooked due to slow intro. Lamont Dozier-We don't want nobody to come between us-ABC As always chip as cheaps and availble all over the web!!!!!!! Sound clip to follow

Culture 'My Ass'

Hi All A few hard to find toons, updates and a few added Garfield Fleming-Please don't send me away-Becket Mint-(Slight label wear) £50 Sold Dance floor classic Visions Of A New World-We make it/Children-New World Mint £400 Cool Chicago uptempo male group 2 sider Central Power System-Masters plan-Ajana Mint- £300 Sold Hard to find mid tempo Chicago dancer Falcons-Gotta make a move-Atkins All-Stars Mint £400 Last tune the group recorded, stunning vocals from Joe Stubbs Al Tiki Hudson-Cry baby-MR Mint- £200 First release for Al Hudson, stunning midtempo crossover 4 Jades-Doon Chang/Gee how I miss you-Cin-town Mint £250 Supa rare Cincinatti early 70's group soul dancer, killer ballad flip Vann & Reggie-I'm falling in love-Brilliant Minds Mint £200 Hard to find mid tempo Detroit modern soul winner Floyd Beck-Show me-Timeless Mint £80 Pittsburgh modern soul mid tempo stunner Gaslight-Just becuase of you-Polydor Demo Mint £70 Detroit modern soul classic

Not wanting to point fingers, but the seller is from Liverpool!!!!!!!!!

Garfield Fleming-Please don't send me away-Becket Mint-(Slight label wear) £50 Sold Dance floor classic Visions Of A New World-We make it/Children-New World Mint £400 Cool Chicago uptempo male group 2 sider Central Power System-Masters plan-Ajana Mint- £300 Sold Hard to find mid tempo Chicago dancer Falcons-Gotta make a move-Atkins All-Stars Mint £400 Last tune the group recorded, stunning vocals from Joe Stubbs

Now Sold Central Power System-Masters plan-Ajana Mint- £300 Hard to find mid tempo Chicago dancer

Yes a nice little 7" Central Power System-Masters plan-Ajana Mint- £300 Hard to find mid tempo Chicago dancer On Hold