Dave Thorley

Black Out 70;) https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150426220045&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Look stop wasting your time on here and go on Ebay and bid on the 'Rare DEEEEEEEEEP Funk LP' I've got up for sale;)

Why, did it need living up then ?. But to be fair had I known that I would have been up there like a shot:) You gonna be at Stafford in two weeks

Agree, now I need to do some work.

PPS George M, no not you;)

PS not going to give up on this Parliament thing though. I can remember sitting round with a bunch of respected artists in Detroit. They were talking about back in the day, as often they do and Parliaments influence came up in conversation. Someone said I think it was Joe Hunter or McKinley Jackson, 'we would be driving back late at night through west Detroit and George's group would be playing this new club, you could feel the funk six blocks away'. They were talking about 68/69 long before all the P-Funk stuff you refurre to, Parliment a funk group, oh yes.

James I in no way dismiss the 'Deep Funk' scene. I think it's influence over the wider rare soul scene in the past few years has been one of the great positives and have said so, publicly on more than one occasion. I simple have a problem when people who had nothing to do with making the music tell everyone what this or that definition of whatever is. As you righty say the definition of 'Deep Funk' is clearly documented, but it's a definition generated here and not by the musicians. I still feel that us guys here deciding weather that respected group or another is a funk group is insulting to them. They made the music for god sake, they know better than anyone if they were laying down a funk track. I also agree that the UK scene will for ever more suffer from all the baggage it has to carry around with it, this is the great advantage that most other parts of the world don't have to deal with. That is also why things seem much freshers there than here. But athough it is easy to travel most places now, I still live here and so just critirsizing the UK scene(s) serves no positive purpose. Old many might be and forgetful maybe, but many of these guys laid down the roots of scenes that flourish worldwide. So if I offended, you or anyone else yesterday, sorry But will everyone stop with this obsession of labeling everything. 'Is it soulful, good, is it dancable, good.

Morning All On topic today:D I always have a problem with labels, have had heated conversations with Pete S over definition of Northern in the past. I have and always will view records simply, can they be played, do they have a beat the matches or that is simular to the current general style in the soul clubs, is there some hookline in there that is infectious, are they soulful. When they were made is an irrelevance, I love soul music that makes you want to get up and dance. To say this whole thread is pointless would be unfair to the many well written postings, but why is so much time and effort being spent on something that can't really be diffined. This record just feels right now, 30, 20 years ago it may not, but now it does. The same applies in reverse it may have felt right 30 years ago but now it out of place.

Anyway, now to the original question. Why is everone so hung up on labels, definitions. Why not come on here and rather than constantly giving personal opions. Impart some knowledge on the music we love, why this was done, how that was done, who was involved, why they did this or that.

, OK British, European version of...

PS I'm suprised that you of all people have such a narrow view, as I know you have traveled widely in the States and spoken to many. I can understand others who have this English view of what funk is and when they have been to the U.S. have chosen to hang out in trendy New York clubs with mainly other white guys who have Black sound-a-like DJ names. But you should be much more open minded, or maybe you are displaying that other trait of the English Funk Scene, being controversial, cuz it's hip

Firstly you will never hear any of the guys you spoke to mention Parliment/Funkadelic, because you went looking for and speaking to artists that fitted your definition of funk, James Brown wanna b's. Funk as it classified here is a white boy english definition that suits the way they would like the world to be. Speak to any well know artist in Detroit and they all say to a man that in the late 60's Parliment 'Had the funk', the Funk Brothers 'Had the funk'. Both JB and Parliment 'Had the funk', thats why people like Booty Collins, Pee Wee and others worked with both at different times. The term 'Funk' is much broader than you would like it to be.

LEON COLINS. I JUST WANNA SAY I LOVE YOU. ELF - This is the harder mix, the other is more polished than this, but dont have it to hand, see if I can put it up in the next day or so, if someone don't beat me to it.

Hi Dante Have the album, it a bit of a mixed bag, also the engineering is all over the place. Some tracks are nice and sharp, others rather muddy. I have it filed as interesting, but to be fair hardly ever hits the decks. 'Lay some cash on the line' is one of the better tracks. I've played it out the odd time, as I also really like it. Just sold a copy for £80 Ricky Lance aka Reo Lane. Under the two names he has had releases on Bren & City Lights, his Reo Lane track is the hardest. Dave

Totally agree, was early and wasn't think have amended my post Dave

A rough guide Not always in this order. Once a master tape was finished, usually 1/4", then a few acetate would be cut. These would be used to play to others in the record company, Motown used them alot for their weekly meeting to see if a project was to go further. Alsd used sometimes to let favoured DJ's get a track real early or even for an artist to punt his product around record label, producers etc. Acetates are cut on a lathe that looks like an over sized turntable, this has a hot needle than cuts a groove into a blank soft vinyl covered metal disc. The needle vibrates directly to the sound being sent down the arm from the recording. Master plates/Stampers are then cut a the pressing plant (the larger ones) or at a mastering service. The pressing plant will then run a few test pressing for quality control. the number of these depends on the contract and or the size of the pressing run. If it was a very large pressing run, then additional test pressing would be run every now and then as continued quality control. These would often be kept on the master file by the record company, or used as advanced demo to send out to dj's. Master files, are where the tapes, stampers and test pressing are kept by the record companies, although the stampers and test pressing often get lost. Pressing runs. Major national label would often contract several different plants to press at the same time, hense different pressing of same release. Sometimes, east/west coast and mid-west plants would be used. The label owner would contract the plant to either run a demo run first on larger presses or a mix of demos and normal pressing as part of the same run. On lower budgets just a run of issues would be run off.

The two releases are different mixes, the first release is a much harder edged mix and the one to get IMHO. The second is much more mellow. It's a great tune and a suprise that it has never had more plays than it has had. I guess it's easy availbility has stop some, you know that 'It's not rare' nonesence. Dave

Hi Pete Is this the one that was on Ebay a few weeks back. Dave

So which is suposed to be the rarer?????

PS that will be Ernest Kelly getting involved. 'Lets see how many versions we can put out, one of them has to hit'

This is odd, as I'm a man that loves strings, but just listen to the link you put up, it's messy with strings, it loses it's purity.

Have to say that is the only version I have known, unless Ive just not noticed. Always loved this and in some ways it doen't sound Detroit, but very southern to my ears. Dave

Hi Ian Just listened to the one in refo and that doesn't seem to have strings, can you have a listen to that a confirm that is the one you have. If so the test pressing is the same. Which would imply that it was original intended without strings. Thanks Dave

Basically I have always thought there were two the Red De-To 70's version and the later 80's Morning Glory synth version. But in the last week I have been asked several times do I have the 70's pressing with or without strings!!!! Were there two different versions/pressings of the 70's red De-To, if so can someone put a sound file for each. I also have the original first test pressing that I got from Label owner Doc Kyle, be interesting to see which it was that they originally intended. Dave

Hi All www.topdogrecords.co.uk Got a real nice mixed bag this week, some cool northern, modern and funk 45's. The supa rare Blackout 70 LP, which just sold on Ebay for close to £3k, some nice crossover and funk tracks on it. Plus a whole bunch of rare acetates, some un-relaesed. So something for just about everyone, including.......... 45's - Brewster Crew, Un-released Jerry Williams (Funk) acetate, Eula Cooper, Matt Pearson, Pep Brown, Ray Crumley, World Column, Soul SetLP's - Black Out 70 (Various Artists), Baby Washington & Don Gardner , Black Ivory, Sound Experience, Sounds Of 66 (inc Carmel Strings - I Hear A Symphony), Marcia Hines (Wizard LP)12" - Superwolf & His Rap-o-matics, Brothers Vibe, W.T. Williams, Paradise II, J's, Earth Wind & Fire (Let's Groove)Thanks everyone for looking, hope you find something you like. Hope to see some of you at the Stafford Re-Union, tickets are really selling fast now over 800 sold, could be a sell out. Dave & Malayka