Frankie Crocker

Just over a dozen went through eBay in the last 20 years. We’re watching the one on Manship’s auction closely - should top 3K. A seriously rare record, two great sides, truly an auction piece and one that would grace any collection.

I think a bit of discussion doesn’t detract from a wants posting. A comment on how rare the record is or current availability would not be out of place. Warnings regarding bootlegs would be invaluable. Someone offering a priced-up VG+ copy instead of a minter could save a bit of hassle. A comment on current alternatives might be helpful even, citing second issues, UK releases etc. Too many wants posts on here are over-optimistic, unrealistic and terse so a bit more information would enlighten readers.

Cheers ML. Thanks for posting. I take my hat off to you for being a doorman at the Emp. My grandparents danced there before the War. My dentist was in Wigan 1964-69 at the time you were working there. My father’s naval base was at Liverpool so I’ve been acquainted with the Mersey Docks for a long time. I have not spoken to anyone who worked on the. Cunard liners, but if they were born in 1932, they would be 90 today, so there can’t be many of them around to talk to. It’s impossible to prove a negative event, something that did not happen, as there’s no evidence! On the other hand, it may be possible to confirm an actual event if there’s actual proof eg photographs, ship loading records etc. As you grow older and wiser, and the story-tellers drink and boast more and more, one does become more sceptical about the accuracy of the yarns spun...

Thanks for posting. We boys in North Wales were obviously missing out... Glasgow was evidently the place to be! I’m not going to take on the Mob here or say anything that could result in a horse’s head put in a Moderator’s bed...

Steinways on sale every week on eBay...just another set sale price record, but a good one at that with two fine sides. Jimmy Mack a great record and worth every penny.

Not being an expert on maritime design, I should briefly clarify what I said earlier...sailing ships that used sails for power would have used extra weight in the holds for ballast in the period before vinyl records were thought of. Ships that were propeller driven would use seawater as ballast as this was a better system than the earlier one. I very much doubt the hearsay that USA records came across in ships’ holds in quantity but acknowledge they could well have accompanied seamen in smaller quantities in the 50’s and 60’s. And by the way, I travelled from Liverpool to Manchester, and from Manchester to Liverpool on the Ship Canal in the 1960’s. I was also in Salthouse Dock in the 1960’s and met a Captain Duffy - I wrote about the occasion in school the next week. I started supporting Liverpool in the 1960’s and saw my first match at Anfield in 1973 so have an excellent working knowledge of the city and docks. I have taught students about Liverpool and it’s docks/industries for decades. I was also at Anfield a fortnight ago for the Rolling Stones concert which was brilliant, another top group who readily acknowledges the US RnB influence. My mind is open to anything factual but the bullshit detector kicks in when people start blabbing about something that is unproven and possibly untrue. People in the past have rumoured that records were used as ship’s ballast but I do not believe this ever occurred QED.

I don’t think anyone doubts that some records travelled across the Atlantic with servicemen, merchant navy sailors etc. The doubts really relate to the large quantity of records allegedly imported and the influence that had on the evolving rare soul scene AND particularly to the tosh peddled about vinyl being used as ship’ ballast. The Merseybeat sound of the 60’s was certainly influenced by the music of the USA - Beatles cover versions confirm Motown was a significant influence. The question I’d be asking is if the Cunard Brits are blowing much of their wages on Yank fashion, how much money did they have remaining for RnB 45’s which despite their seemingly low cost, were priced at a level beyond most working people?

Ships’ ballast systems use seawater for stabilisation. Old sailing ships used a deadweight such as iron or concrete. The notion that 1950’s ships’ ballast tanks, or holds for that matter, were full of Checker/ Cadet/Chess 45’s is utter rubbish and anyone who actually worked on a ship should surely know this. Still waiting to see genuine black & white photographs of a Scouse merchant seaman in his old uniform in his record room surrounded by late 50’s and early 60’s RnB 45’s from the USA...

A very comprehensive and scholarly review that enlightens those interested in the origins of 50’s US RnB imports - however, the word ‘ballast’ does not figure prominently... Given the cost of 45’s and the weight of them, I do wonder how many records were brought back by those working on the boats.

The more popular the record was locally, the more plays it had at parties or just indoors. In those days, 45’s could be stacked on a tall spindle, as many as six at a time, so they all suffered extra wear and tear. Often records were stored unsleeved in a metal rack - this looked like a toast-rack with 50 narrow slots and would seriously damage the labels. Styrene records such as Tommy Frontera would really suffer from handling - they would stress and crack more easily, then be thrown away. It took me a while to upgrade Tommy Frontera to a mint copy as there were very few kept back from general circulation. Many of the records turning up today are from the ghettoes of Detroit and Chicago - you only have to be in Brad’s store in Detroit when someone brings in a boxload and he puts on rubber gloves before sifting through. As for the ship’s ballast...RnB records into Liverpool etc - this is such a load of complete fabrication, the original peddlar should have been put in the Twisted Wheel toilets and made to lick the floor clean.

Anything that sells for so little is patently not an auction item. Tami Lynn was a bargain - easily a £400 pound record in my humble estimation, but the soundbite for a lesser track would hardly tempt a serious buyer unaware of the unissued tracks. The top prices for the big sounds were a fair reflection of their worth at this current moment in time.

A lost decade for me as I only started going to the 100 Club roundabout 1990... Fortunately there were plenty of LP’s and then CD’s to keep the flames burning. Since then, Keb has sold his records about three times, but his influence back then and even nowadays is undeniable.

I don’t recall it being covered up but it got plenty of plays at the 100 Club in the 90’s - might have been Greg or Shifty who spun it regularly? You My Love is a brilliant track and the EP really hard to find, so it’s odd that John Manship hasn’t led with this as the auction soundbite. I’ll dig out the Cotillion version sometime to compare it with the Atco track so thanks for the heads-up.

Hi Joel. Yet again, Northern Soul defies the laws of supply and demand. What did that geezer Adam Smith know? As DJ’s give certain records more spins, demand is stimulated as the unaware become clued in. Hotbox DJ’s then have to have the record to meet dance-floor demand. Panic buying sets in as collectors fear missing out...FMO I think you youngsters call it. Bidders chasing a record in diminishing numbers then up their bids to secure ‘their copy’ and avoid future bidding wars. As you rightly said at the start of the thread, there are more copies of this record coming to market, but no single identifiable dealer seems to be the reason for this.

I agree Richard. I’m struggling to remember if I even saw a copy. The current action on this record reflects several sellers parting with their copies rather than a hoard coming to market. On the subject of the Austin Record Convention, there was relatively little there in the way of decent Northern Soul and the few choice 45’s were priced sky-high to reflect recent auction valuations: only one dealer had top rarities but at eye-watering prices, another had a box of scarce collectables at unrealistic prices, whilst a couple of dealers had the odd item or two that could be sourced on eBay with a bit of patience. The highlight of the Austin Show was catching up with the collectors from the UK.

Ah, but a barometer stretching back 20 years. Love it or hate it, eBay is a reference point that guides savvy collectors. Trouble is, it’s not a totally comprehensive listing of all auctions on the planet.

If you look at the 100+ Goldmine CD’s, there are probably 2,000 or so uptempo classic Northern tracks compiled - subtract a few hundred as they’re duplicated then add on well known tunes not compiled and that pushes the figure closer to 2,500. This figure excludes classic Motown tracks that were the template for the uptempo sounds to follow in the prime years of 1966-1969. There are many poor uptempo tracks on the B sides of classic records but I would be inclined to ignore them as we’re really trying to enumerate excellent/very good/good/fair sounds that would be collectable. You sometimes hear about collections of 50,000 or 100,000 records but these will have RnB, crossover, Modern, beat ballads, mid-tempo etc but classic uptempo Northern will only constitute a small proportion of these mighty large collections.

Someone snagged a bargain with the Chi-Lites on Blue Rock. I’d have put ‘She’s Mine’ as the first track of the soundbite as this is a brilliant sound and twice as good as the one featured in the blurb.

I always thought Northern Soul was an underground scene confined to dark basements. Whoever thought it would be a smart idea to have a pratt's disco on the back of a lorry, should have given it a bit more thought, then scrapped the whole idea.

Baffled as to why an Esther Phillips demo should go for four or five times the going rate of an issue valued at £100-125?

I bought the record for the other side about 24 years ago. I must have sampled the Stanky side and ruled it out as I didn’t bother writing this title on the cardboard sleeve. I would hazard a guess that Stanky started getting spins at some point in the last decade but I don’t know precisely when.

Jay D. Martin was the surprise of the night fetching more than double the going rate. Several records were flops and would’ve made more on eBay.

For those not in the know, the main entrance to the Casino is where the chap in the light raincoat is standing holding his shopping bag - the doorway was barely two people wide, and when the soulies were admitted, one half of the door was in the shut position hence the huge crush to get in. Behind the Empress sign was the Beachcomber, a free warm-up venue opened up whilst the main hall was being prepared for the Allnighter.

And now there’s one on Manship’s auction, it’ll be interesting to see if it achieves four figures. Agreed, £800 is excessive even before eBay postage and taxes are added in.

I’ve now worked out why Manny has record auctions - this way, he has free publicity on Soul Source. Apart from Rita and The Tiaras which was obviously an auction item, just about everything else went for a set-sale price. Ted Wilson went for less than expected, so someone had a bargain.