Frankie Crocker

Great idea for a thread. Before eBay, you had to save up hard cash but bidding was always very expensive and probably wasteful of funds. Nowadays, eBay offers a global source of records with plenty of bargains but a man's gotta know his limitations... Trouble is, the chase never ends so we're continually broke. As it's easier to get money than it is to find rare records, there is always a justification for overspending but this is unsustainable in the long run. Most records eventually come up for sale so a bit of patience usually pays off. You can often buy records with records so be prepared to trade if funds are short. Steve Chadwick might have had a box of records for a short while but he never had any soul...

Will Pete Waterman be telling us how Wigan Casino was full of coal miners?

Top dealer. Shame about the label but maybe the vinyl can find a good home. Sad that so many records bought for enjoyment ended up being abused...

Great stuff. Keep it coming. Thanks.

Pete. There's one Northern Soul book well-worth giving a miss. It's titled 'Northern Soul: Music, Drugs and Subcultural Identity' (I kid you not) by Andrew Wilson. There is a copy on Amazon for £85, but I defy you to read beyond the first paragraph of description. There has been a copy in Foyles bookshop, London for the last two years, destined to be never sold as it is an academic tome couched in tedious, incomprehensible prose without a single picture of any drug induced sub-cultural individuals... However, things are looking up as 'Northern Soul - An Illustrated History' by Elaine Constantine and Gareth Sweeney is released on September 5th, also available at a nice discount on Amazon. If every soulie (sorry Dave) buys this next week, it could top the book-sales charts. I for one am eagerly awaiting loads of label scans, photos of memorabilia, playlists and lots of pictures of sub-cultural activity.

I think the distinction should be made between Customs and Post Office charges. The recent wave of Post Office charges looks like the innovation of some bonus seeking financial director at a time when business is floundering. If the Post Office is privatised, expect the situation to worsen. In my dreams, I hope that records bought arrive in their original sleeves with 74 cent stickers on, just to remind the packet-openers that the crazy Brits really do want rubbishy 45's that are of little or no value. The insurance value of packets' contents is something completely different and I would have thought covered by any credit card purchase in the event of lost/ stolen/ damaged goods?

I have just looked at every page in Keith Rylatt & Phil Scott's wonderful book on The Wheel 'Central 1179' and there is no sign of any vinyl bags; in fact, the hard-cases photographed were so sharply dressed, they didn't need accessories. Vinyl airline style bags were around in the 1960's but were they carried by Twisted Wheel goers? When I went to The Casino six months to the day after it opened, I carried a plain cricket bag made of cloth with leather straps - many holdalls that night were very similar or had a tartan pattern, but most patches were on shirts and singlets as I recall. I got my first of many adidas holdalls in late 1974 but can't remember when they were first adorned with soul patches - can anyone claim this honour? To answer the question though, tat it may be, but it will be the closest any youngster will get to a ground-breaking British Allnighter like The Twisted Wheel.

The bootleg demos have a poor quality look to them. The original WD is stamped but I can not compare them right now having just flown into Chicago from Honolulu - before you ask, not the gold mine for 60's soul some thought it might be - picked up my WD copy off an Ozzie eBay seller about a year ago for a lowish figure and it now sits next to a gold issue. I just love fondling records with gold labels. Roger, your scans are just the best, just what you need when stuck on a Pacific island.... Colalined Baby is just such a class tune and one when the instrumental matches the vocal in quality, usually not the case. Definitely in my top 1,000 tracks and we are talking A* tracks all the way.

Always a hard to locate record. Never seen an issue or a scan of one yet there's been plenty of green issue Willie Wades on the market in recent years. Manship auctioned a Jades WD year or two ago and it fetched over £800. This was always a massive Casino record and did much for the growing tendency for synchronized hand-clapping in 1974-75. Are the Jades several groups with releases on Imperial L-O-V-E, Lucky Fellow release out of New Orleans and the Nite Life release? Not an over-rated record by any stretch of the imagination, a great dance-floor tune despite it's blue-eyed/Rock N Roll undertones: a record that has stood the test of time, surely the hallmark of true quality, probably due to it's uniqueness.

Agreed Geordie. The shrewder US dealers have now caught up with play, but others, perhaps the miserable ones, have been left with stores of unwanted records that no one wants. On a trip to Detroit about 10 years ago, I phoned Cappy and he said don't bother coming as he had no records: a few days later, I was driving by Cappy's so decided to knock on the door - he peeped through the curtains but he would not open the door so we had a conversation through the closed door with him asking if I was willing to buy the whole store. It must have dawned on him that all the best records had been cherry picked and he wanted out of the business but was trapped with unsellable inventory. Bob May in Detroit was a real character, only ever sat down behind the counter, hard to engage in conversation but if you hung around long enough he would take something out from under the counter and say 'here's something you might be interested in' (Jack Montgomery on Barracuda) or 'some feller never collected this last week' (Connie Questell on Decca). A visit to Bob's store was always worth the effort and though he was a man of few words, he could deliver the goods. Part of the 'essence' of collecting records has been relating to the dealers and working around their idiosyncrasies, coming away with the records at prices that are mutually acceptable.

WOW, profound stuff. Gotta be the music. Dancing is fine whilst the knees hold up. Record collecting is okeh but you can't gather them all anyway let alone find the time to listen to them. Camaradie is good. Travelling is fine. Venues come and go. However, the music lives on, always something fresh around the corner, something that strikes a chord like 'It'll never be over for me'...

Spot on George. Wished I'd known about the other places besides Garnick's. Do the meter maids still ticket your car before the meter runs out?

Nice cover but really rate the flip. This sort of industry should be encouraged and supported. Keep up the good work.

Warming to the theme... First trip to Bill 's in Dallas about eight years ago, bloke goes up to the counter with one of those really old record binder books with sleeved 45's in, probably those ghastly maroon and turquoise objects we generally ignore, and Bill says it is $50. I have never seen anyone show any interest in these 1950's binders or contents and I suspect the bloke might have paid $10 for this item which will probably never ever sell. Back in the mid 90's, went to Lowell, Massachusetts. Went into a TV store and the guy said it was the oldest record store in the USA. Possibly true as Lowell had the first cotton mills in the country. Owner and sidekicks were out of Deliverance, weird but oddly effeminate. Said I could not look at the stock as I did not have a list. Now lost track of the times access has been refused on the grounds of 'no list'... Went to Cheapos in Cambridge, Massachusetts in 1995. Told the hippy store minder what I was after and he said 'not that Northern Soul shit'. Proprietor had just computerized the inventory so I spent two hours going through the listing of hundreds of columns of tiny print. Listed about 10 records and then asked the minder to pull them from the rack. Request was met by the sigh of the century. Professionals...yes it's there and he tosses it onto the counter; also got Ty Karim on Romark, all records $3 each. Shop did not take credit cards so ran to the bank as fast as possible. Next trip, found two copies of Ruby Sherry on Take 6. Went back again in 1997 and the hippy minder said 'it's you again, you better come behind the counter and look for yourself'. Enjoyed the time spent in John Moores Blue Room in Philly 1993 - came away with lots of low end records you never see nowadays and plenty that have become quite collectable eg Royal Five on Tyler, Intensions on Blue Light etc. Went to Val Shivelys on the way to the airport to be told 'we don't take credit cards'...how times have changed.

Great footage. Real soulful vibe. Impressions one of the very best groups with a great repertoire of top tracks. Could watch this all night long. Room full of cool customers - did you know what you were starting off?

Great idea for a thread... Went to Bill's in Dallas at Easter - like you say, nothing is priced up and the computer based prices are silly so what few records that should be taken away are just left in stacks on the messy fixtures. Bill prefers to sit behind the counter smoking rather than sort out the shambles of 45's. Found a small handful but knowing his pricing method, left them all behind. It's not the miserable dealers you need to worry about. A few days ago, I was at The Record Man, Redwood City, Bay Area, going through 45's in a container in the parking lot - owner, Gary comes out, all chatty, shakes hand, brags about half a million records...anyway, I find a 12-15 cheapies that I already have so I ask him to price them up which he does on the computer, stuff like Essex on Roulette, Timi Yuro on Liberty, Syl Johnson on Twinight etc all $3 usually but worth taking away for resale. Gary sticks price stickers on the sleeves with $20, $18 etc so I just said sorry but I am not paying that so I walked out empty handed having dug for almost two hours. First time I have ever had to leave every single record priced up behind. Richie Rosen has been the most offensive record dealer I have had the mispleasure of dealing with. On one occasion, he was so rude and arrogant towards me, he actually apologised as he realised that he had gone way beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour. Not been back for many years now but would do so on the off-chance that he would suffer a fatal heart attack and I would have to leave the store in a such a hurry I might forget to leave the records I was holding. Buyers beware, Richie allows customers to use an ancient record player, early 50's jobbie that tracks at 5 ounces and ruins all styrene records. Most record dealers have their quirks but they are soon forgotten if the records are good and the price is right. However, computer based prices are giving lazy and disorganised dealers the idea they are sitting on a goldmine and English collectors are mugs to be fleeced - this is something we should campaign against.

Clearly a case of mis-representing the facts aka lying by omission. However, if the bidder is aware the record is not an original and has the funds to burn, then he is entitled to spend whatever he wants - somehow, I doubt this is the case so it could be collectors bidding heftily because a previous high bid seemed to 'authenticate' the record's provenance. This sort of salesmanship is unethical and bad for the scene - if the vendor has any scruples, he will withdraw the item and re- list it. Like Premium Stuff, I could reel off a list of fakes bought from a high ranking English dealer but that's for another thread...

Bargain!

Hi Liam. Welcome aboard. Looking at your playlist, you are evidently on the right track already. In addition to the tunes nominated by other SS contributors, I would add:- Astors-Candy-Stax James Brown-Hey America-King Gene Chandler-There Was A Time-Brunswick Dontells-In Your Heart-Vee Jay Shirley Ellis-Soul Time-Columbia Five Stairsteps-Stay Close To Me-Curtom There are so many good records out there, it's hard to know where to start but half the fun is turning up something decent on a major label that has been forgotten or completely overlooked. Good hunting...

RIP Danny. Although I never knew you, Wigan was blessed by your presence. Only made the first, third and fourth Anniversaries so missed your moment of glory. Top dancer, top bloke and sadly missed, but the legend will live on.

Like the footwork, the acrobatic moves were emulated by the chosen few at the early soul clubs - the link can be seen in the old American Bandstand archive clips. For this reason alone, it's okeh to dance this way, to keep the spirit burning. Northern dancing is individual, freestyle dancing within the sixties/seventies dance style so pretty much anything is okeh within this time-frame context. Spinning was a hallmark of an accomplished dancer at Wigan but the acrobatics lingered on, perpetuated by Top of The Pops performances by Wigan's Chosen Few. As already mentioned in this thread, the 1977 'This England' programme featuring Wigan part-timers and beginner-spinners, gave the misleading impression that everyone danced on their hands when they weren't falling over. The Wigan dance competitions encouraged acrobatics up to a point with Sandy Holt winning one year doing his oft repeated routine, finely choreographed to the hand-on- hip, clenched fist and kung-fu kick: eye catching it was, soul it wasn't and the judges gave Sandy's act the big thumbs down a season later. Bottom line, dance to the music, not the mirror in the gym - if you've got it, flaunt it, but not in front of the cameras.

RIP Bobby. The biggest name on Duke, indeed, the Duke of Soul such was his catalogue. Thanks for so many good sounds...

WOW - Carl Carlton - maybe a Cleethorpes or Prestatyn act for the future? Detroit is in a bad way and could well be the first industrial city to fall off the map. However, the music will live on for ever. Berry Gordon did the place no favours decamping to Hollywood - time to return and rejuvenate the soul scene perhaps? The good news is, rare tunes are turning up in quantity eg Gary Dean, Sherri Taylor, Four Tracks etc. Not been for a few years but would recommend staying near Royal Oak. The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn is a must-see with an excellent Motown exhibit. Drivers beware - Hitsville is marked on the wrong place on the map so be prepared to go up and down West Grand Boulevard a few times. Hopefully a weekender promoter can follow up this lead...

Pete - can I make a reservation for your next copy of Maurice Williams? £75 with 50% discount is my kind of price. Seriously, the price for this record now has to fall as the market will be flooded with US flea-market finds priced up with popsike tags and UK 'prized' possessions put on the market to cash in on the silly money.

Barry - great posts. M's was a bit like a Victorian music hall on two floors hemming in a narrowish dance floor. The lower level had booths for small groups, but were often occupied by by sleepers come 6 or 7 o'clock. M's being smaller and lower than the main room had a vibrant atmosphere with low-fi sound system, balcony heaving with onlookers and everyone talking or shouting above the music. In the early days, the dancing was possibly more frenetic and old- school as the sounds catered more for the Torch- Wheel age bracket. Can still remember being at the front mesmerized by a couple of coloured girls dancing to Scratchy, real ass-kicking stuff. Dave Evison would put a record on then hop down onto the floor for two minutes then scramble back onto the stage in time to change the record - that's what I call dead keen. M's was a more intimate venue than the main room and it was common for people to adjourn there for a conversation. The sounds played in the early days reflected the scene in it's infancy, Spencer Davis Group, Julian Covay, Bobby Hebb, Dobie Gray etc but in time, changed to recycle the multitude of oldies the main floor had once spun. I can remember crossing into M's on the balcony, pushing through the swing doors and hearing Anne Sexton for the first time, blew me away. So many good memories I can't think of any warts apart from the sound system breaking down regularly.