Frankie Crocker

Blackpool Mecca was essentially a Saturday Night not an Allnighter. Regulars will have a better recollection as I only went twice in the evening and once to an afternoon. Ascending the escalator was an experience itself, checking your tie was straight, searched by the bouncers then into the Highland Room. The Mecca finished at 2.00 pm but I stand to be corrected on this. Many at the Mecca then drove to Wigan which was weird as you were seeing the same people again but in a much larger crowd. Don’t allow yourself to be taken in by the Joe 90 stuff - there were always odd-ball tunes given the rare outing as DJ’s pioneered - even towards the end, the high quality tunes outnumbered the poppy-disco things.

Several posts on Facebook in recent weeks so he’s OK.

Thanks. Not seen this variant before. Plain label threw me.

Not seen this before. Not the usual Soul City label. Any thoughts? Thanks for any info…

Wonder what he’d take in trades? How many collectors called Kenny are going to show interest? I doubt if anyone would pay 100K for the record, not even a multi-millionaire, as the item is overpriced.

Dobber sums up the situation nicely. There are some nice records portrayed but they go up and up in price then vanish to reappear again at a later date. The auction is a sealed bid one so only the seller knows what is actually going on. Some of the records are advertised a few days after what John and Tim have also put up for auction. The minimum bids and finishing values are often too high so nobody can really snag a bargain. I would be very interested to learn of any auction winnings on Pat’s site…

Well done Peter for reviving the topic.I saw a copy at the Pasadena Flea Market about 30 years ago. I didn’t sample it or buy it, but the occasion stuck in my head filed under ‘Records I Stupidly Passed Over In A Hurry’. I snagged one on eBay a few years ago, just VG condition and nothing really to commend it sound-wise, but still part of folklore as it was the sort of record piloted by go-ahead DJ’s back in the day.

Spot on Chalky. Nick’s contribution has certainly elucidated matters. The Archer discography early in the thread is hopelessly out of date. As it now looks like Mack Evans mastered the Archer and missing-Archer issues, collectors can be confident they own bona fide originals. The few fortunate owners of an Archer stamped issue can be satisfied their copies came off the machine used, probably as part of a small sample, maybe even to round up the number of white demos done QED. Since this thread was started, some collectors have put their missing-Archer stamp copies up for sale, cashing in as it were…my advice would be to keep these in the absence of any Archer stamped issues coming up for sale. As it was myself who contended that Eddie Parker may well have been pressed in Nashville, I am content to dismiss this notion on the basis of what Nick has said.

Eddie Parker was revived after the Torch era - it was huge at Wigan. The small uneven Archer stamped release was bootlegged for the Wigan masses. By then, word was out that originals had a large even Archer stamp. True, back in the day, most of us unthinkingly ignored matrix markings to just acquire the sound. There’s enough info in this thread now to set the record straight and keep the door open for additions.

Thanks for further clarification Rob. Keith Rylatt in his Groovesville USA book noted that the Ashford record was a ‘local hit’ in Detroit but the signs are that it did not sell in large quantities. Your reference to pressing plants at Christmas makes a lot of sense. Archer being a small outfit could easily cater for Jack Ashford’s white demo request prior to Christmas - this rarity produced largely for Detroit and Michigan outlets was probably pressed up in a quantity of 100 - 200 records. The bulk press of perhaps a few thousand probably happened in January 1969 judging from the earliest dates hand written on sales reps’ samples. Most importantly, Christmas could be the main reason for the legendary’ second issue’ assertion that has been presented to collectors for 50 years. Given the copyright date for ‘Love You Baby’ is 14th October 1968, Archer probably pressed the initial run in November or December, allowing for the preparatory work to be done in Nashville.

Your two contributions above Nick are cogently argued to the point that I’m coming around to the view that Archer pressed all the Eddie Parker records, probably in two phases. You know way more about Archer than I do so it seems pressing variations could well have occurred there. As mentioned above, the Tomangoe’s on Washpan would not need an Archer stamp as it already had Nashville Matrix in the runout. If indeed all copies of Eddie Parker with the tiny WME etching were pressed at the Archer plant, this would require a re-evaluation of prices for stamped and non-stamped varieties. The story may well boil down to a short press run of white demos plus a few issue samples pressed on one machine with an Archer stamp and a slightly later bulk pressing of issues on another machine without an Archer stamp. Jack Ashford had great confidence in Eddie Parker and his own label so it’s not surprising he used distributors in Detroit and Chicago. I suspect Nashville played a part in the distribution of the record which has turned up in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia - I’m not convinced sales reps would necessarily travel so far from Detroit and Chicago.

Thanks for this Rob. Are you saying for sure that Ashford was a customer of Southern Plastics? Are we saying Jack Ashford placed orders with SP or was the Ashford record pressed up? Yes, we’re talking a ‘small fry’ order here, probably in the low thousands at a best guess. At present, I’m surmising SP pressed the bulk order of Eddie Parker based on the fact the factory was over the road from the Nashville Matrix plating facility - pure conjecture for sure but logically geographically. The distribution network in Nashville might have played a part in the widespread scattering of the record in the Mid-West and towards the east coast where samples turned up near Washington DC. We know now the Ashford record was distributed from Chicago and Detroit; we also know the approximate time it was pressed and distributed. Further documentation on distribution companies may well help us ascertain where the record was pressed and how many copies were made.

Picking up on some of the points raised Nick, Archer may have had no connection with Southern Plastics, but Jack Ashford was calling the shots - he opted for Warren McCleallan Evans and Nashville Matrix which was across the road from the Southern Plastics pressing factory. Archer as a small business could not handle large orders of the sort Motown wanted so they went to Southern Plastics - the capacity of Archer was limited and the presses there might not have been able to produce the quantity of records Jack Ashford wanted at a budget price. You mention multiple stampers - this could explain why bootlegs appeared at a later stage. The unauthorised Lorraine Chandler version on Black Magic could possibly have come from one of the multiple stampers that Simon Soussan accessed? The more I think about it, the mystery of various/missingArcher stamps is definitely worth digging into. I don’t yet have a first press Eddie Parker to study in detail and compare with the WME copies I have (and a small uneven Archer stamped bootleg). Maybe one day someone will confirm where the Ashford records were pressed - as things stand, it could be one or two plants depending on the numbers pressed up, but most importantly, the WME copies are original USA late 68/early 69 records whether they have an Archer stamp not.

Thanks again for adding to the thread Nick. I’m not able to dig out my Archer stamped records at short notice but will endeavour to do so in the months ahead. If you read back over page 1 of the thread, you will see that Warren McCleallan Evans scribed the matrix number on the lacquer in a Nashville studio - as he did this for Archer, the number 95 was included. Nashville matrix made the metal plates to press the records but we do not know how many were made - normally there is only one lacquer but there could be 2, 4, 6, 8 etc master discs depending on pressing plant requirements. One ponderable is did some of the master discs go to Southern Plastics or another pressing plant QED? Some of the master discs went to the Archer plant in Detroit where the presses added the raised Archer stamp to the Ashford record. Maybe operations at Archer were not as high quality as I suspected so it may well be that every single copy of Eddie Parker was pressed at Archer, some with a company stamp and many more without. If so, why have record collectors far more knowledgable and experienced than myself differentiated between the two variations classed as definite original and second issue for 50 years? Going forward then, lucky owners of Eddie Parker with the tiny WME etching may well possess a true original whether it was pressed at Archer or another plant.

The number of surviving copies on Popsike and seen for sale, suggest the number of records pressed was limited. Sure, some are in collections but we must be talking dozens here rather than hundreds or thousands. To some extent, this was a vanity project with one man, not a company, behind the release - Jack co-wrote the song, produced it and started his own label to release it. Pressing records was an expensive business, and as we well know, local labels generally didn’t prosper. Jack had massive confidence in Eddie Parker and being a shrewd businessman would have had a pilot run of demos done early on for radio DJ’s to provoke interest in what was to be the imminent bulk pressing; this is now looking more like a carefully planned and cleverly coordinated contract aimed at keeping costs down.