Paul-s

=============== It's a long time since I saw the play, but I don't remember the emphasis being on vinyl, more on the lives of the characters with the casino being a release. This is how I honestly remember it, I'm not trying to fan the flames Winnie :-) You didn't notice an almost continuous narrative soundtrack of some 48 tunes? Sung by the original artists and chosen for their emotive qualities to engage the audience and remind them (in an immediate sensory way) along with the large scale original film footage of Wigan, how visceral an experience it was for those characters?!wow Nowt to say to that. Everyone else seemed to feel it and notice it........

HA! hard on Fridays from Cambridge...work and traffic! Heard great stuff about it though!

I dont care what they do with it. What Im saying is THIS ISNT ANYTHING TO DO WITH MY PLAY. If someone was doing it with the original music I wouldn't be commenting. I am shocked that so many people dont give a s--t about the music....you ALL pretend to love soul and talk endlessly about singers, records. You youself say it wasn't accurate for you. Does that mean a cover band playing the tunes is nearer your experience then? etc. When push comes to shove, your paying good money to go and see a Sh-t- cover band playing the tunes you supposedly love. GO AND SEE IT, you probably deserve to....cheers Paul p.s Of course people like Toss Winstanley wanted to make t shirts and beer towels etc. I could have cashed in on that. BUT, I resisted the temptation to turn my experience into a 'tacky' commercial one! The choice to maintain my dignity and soul was an easy one for me. I think some of you would struggle!

The British Theatre Guide reckoned the music got in the way of developing the characters and storylines. If a regular (arty farty) theatre goer possibly it did. Tho as it seemed more aimed to getting Northern Soulies attend a play "we" would see the original tracks as essential ingredients. Yes, the guy was a 50 year old who wasn't used to listening to music as a narrative. BUT, ALL soulies got it or even music lovers got it in general. I used 48 tracks and sometimes just one line of them (as a comment). My aim was to be true to those who went , not to the mainstream press! I for my part see nothing wrong in people doing a musical or even an opera based on Northern Soul. Obviously it would be the storylines and characters that would take prominence over the music. A play/film involving football needn't have an actual game for instance. NOT really able to answer this. If you want to hear a dodgy white, west end band play 'soul' music, we are not really coming from the same scene! Go to your local Karaoke on a Friday night if thats your bag. cheers PAUL

Post it special tmrow Paul, be with you Friday.

Had to give this a seperate thread (from octagons site), as its sooooo exciting. Heres me slagging off Boltons new 'musical' take on Wigan Casino....then I see the tremendous musical talent they have enlisted! And the cast, well, what can I say Corrie stars! Its going to be so 'real', hairs on the back of my neck are standing up already. Pure class. The octagon have billed them as one of the finest 'soul' bands. They are that good, that, I heard, they are only going into rehearsal for the last week! Get ready to be moved... Russ Winstanley has to be involved in this somewhere? Its got ALL his trademarks The cast includes Rupert Hill, Coronation Street's much-loved Jamie Baldwin, Rokhsaneh Ghawam-Shahidi, fresh from Meet the Mukherjees at the Octagon and who also appeared in Rafta, Rafta in the recent National Theatre tour, Richard Oldham last appeared at the Octagon in Early One Morning and The Daughter-in-law, and Laura Bonnah appears at the Octagon for the first time. Musicians for the production include Adam Keast and Francis Tucker, both of whom have appeared in Eight Miles High at the Octagon, Rebekha Hughes who last appeared in Lisa's Sex Strike at the Octagon. Paul Mannion, Paul Kissaun, and Shirley Darroch complete the line-up. So, which one of these is the singer?

Here is the Great 'soul band' (a bunch of actors playing instuments)line up and cast for Bolton Octagons Panto/play. See, im even advertising for them...What a tremendous line up! Bet you cant wait to hear those tunes you have cherished for decades re worked by this lot! ENJOY Jamie Baldwin...top Im feeling its 'soul' already. The cast includes Rupert Hill, Coronation Street's much-loved Jamie Baldwin, Rokhsaneh Ghawam-Shahidi, fresh from Meet the Mukherjees at the Octagon and who also appeared in Rafta, Rafta in the recent National Theatre tour, Richard Oldham last appeared at the Octagon in Early One Morning and The Daughter-in-law, and Laura Bonnah appears at the Octagon for the first time. Musicians for the production include Adam Keast and Francis Tucker, both of whom have appeared in Eight Miles High at the Octagon, Rebekha Hughes who last appeared in Lisa's Sex Strike at the Octagon. Paul Mannion, Paul Kissaun, and Shirley Darroch complete the line-up. Book early! Its gonna be a 'real' thing

I read the replys and they didn't seem to be censoring debate, just saying come and see it and then comment? Saw the original, thought it was good, if I was in the area would go and see it just to compare. Winnie :-)

Good idea Pete, we may talk! Im only angry at the fact that they deliberately used the same images to advertise it, in a deliberate campaign to confuse the two events and, until I complained, used positive newspaper quotes from MY production to advertise theirs! NAUGHTY!. Also censoring an open debate is very out of order!

Then thats very sad Pete. Because this is NOTHING to do with that play. So its going to see a sh--te NEW play about the scene. Where a bunch of west endy type musicians play and sing the songs. You can surely get that at decent working mans club or a Karaoke night. So, please DO go and see it, BUT, in no way associate 'Once Upon A Time In Wigan' with 'Once Upon A Time In Wigan -LIVE'. If my play had not been on and done so well and you heard that a new play about Wigan featuring live music from a bunch of west end musicians and clubland singers was on, would you go? I wouldn't, people are quick to slag films and documentaries about the scene, never mind this abomination. Im not saying people shouldn't go...its there pride and there money. Im saying DO NOT associate it with my play. Its nothing to do with it whatsoever! Paul

Well, after advocating their desire to hear peoples views and even going as far as to post on this site under false names, Bolton Octagon have finally shown their true colours. Yesterday, I replied to Sally Boyds posts about artistic freedom and the nature of playwrights and theatre (see 'once upon a time in Wigan, live thread). But, it seems Sally doesn't like people who disagree with her, or, in fact, who are more knowledgeable and articulate than her. So Im going to post the reply i gave to this farce on here (you only get Sally and friends version on the blog). Lets start with Sallys friend (or is it Sally. It bears the same lack of intellect and awkward desperation ) Sheila said... Hurrah for Emma adding some sense to this debate. I too saw the original production of 'Once Upon a Time in Wigan'and loved it, however I too find some of the comments expressed here incredibly patronising. Being an 'Arty Farty type' (definition - someone who either watches TV, films, theatre, reads books, looks at paintings, photographs or... listens to music...)I care about the cultural development of this country. I support any theatre which seeks to reach new audiences and showcase new writing. I am saddened and a little puzzled when a Director and Actor (BA and MA being in Theatre Arts) appears to be actively attempting to damage this process. Joan Livesey mentioned that 'The original music is THE most essential part of the play' which devalues the contributions of the stage crew, designers, writer, director and actors - if this was indeed the case I am suprised that the company didn't instead just pop on stage with a Vestax and some 7 inches... However having seen the play (more than once) I recall not just the music but some incredible writing, powerful and moving performances and some cracking writing. Unless the Octagon has got it very wrong with the writing, casting and dancing (Mick Martin, one of the original cast members in a new role and Sandy Holt as dance advisor all on board) I see no reasons why any of the elements should disappear. Break a leg to all involved! 27 May 2008 22:40 mmmmmmmmmm? Mick Martin, one of the original cast members? I dont think so! Hes the writer Sheila, Hurrah! He is also about 43 years old, hardly suitable for playing a 19 year old soulie? You people keep ignoring the comment about the music being ORIGINAL. Vestax, NO, we didnt play them on a vestax at Wigan, rather , on a large sound system, as was used on the Urban Expansion SELL-OUT tours. Your musicians, I hear, are not even present at rehearsal until the last week! Wow, sound like a tight production! Sally did'nt answer my question about artistic freedom and re-writing history yesterday, so, 'OH well read one', perhaps you can? Casting? They have cast the aging Richard Oldham (he must be 36, he looks it!) as Danny!! Hows that going to work Its NOT new writing, it toured to 100,000 people and was published and is done by kids at school for audition speeches?! new writing? Huraah Elizabeth, perhaps more reading and less cappuccinos would do you good! I conceived, devised, directed and toured the play, how dare you suggest I did not value the crew, have you spoken to them? NO! You could have Gods greatest actors and tech team, BUT and this is the point you keep ignoring Lizzy, without the original music, it is nothing to do with Wigan Casino or the Northern soul scene. Hurraah for that! If you are the future of cultural development, we are in big trouble Elizabeth. You seem to barely be able to debate with conscious thought, never mind championing our cultural development. Do you not realise how patronising you sound. I dont even believe that you read a newspaper, never mind anything beyond. If you did, you would recognise that its not a 'truthful' gesture to re-write history, or to look down your nose through the mist of your intellect and tell 'us' that it didn't happen that way! Keep the Faith Paul Sadot Sally Boyd said Sally Boyd said... Thanks to all of you who have posted your views and joined the debate here. We hoped that this blog would provide a site for a genuine debate to take place and we are more than happy to post views that do not agree with our production, as we believe that discussion and controversy are an integral part of the arts. The debate has thrown up some interesting points on both sides. However, some further posts we have received have now descended into unnecessary personal attacks on bloggers, and Octagon staff, and we have taken the decision not to publish these. We will publish further comments and posts if we receive them, both from people who like what we are doing and from those who don't. However we can not allow the site to become an arena for comments of an abusive nature. We have stated our position clearly and this will not change. We know some people don't like what we're doing, and it is absolutely someone's right to dislike it. We however are very excited about the play, and about the production. The music sounds great, the story is moving, and we're very proud to be ending our 40th anniversary season on such a high. We look forward to welcoming the large numbers of you who will join us for the production to the Octagon, and would like to hear your thoughts after you've seen it. 28 May 2008 10:25 I replied to Sally, Elizabeth, Emma....sorry, I mean Sally Sally, I will NOW post on ALL the websites that you edit and censor comments on your blog. My first reply yesterday was NOT abusive. It pointed out that you know nothing about agents and theatre Sally. You try to come back with theatre analogies about Bennett and Beckett etc, but when you are intellectually challenged on the inaccuracy of your point, you censor it and don't post it on your blog! LAUGHABLE and slightly pitiful. You argue artistic freedom, yet you censor anyone who disagrees. You have shown your (we want your views blog) to be what it is, an endorsement only site for the Octagon. Im even considering getting my own flyer done now, just because of your oppression of freedom of speech. You were abusive to me and others when you said "let it go". You started the personnal stuff. Who are you to tell people to let their passion and memories go! Sad, Sad, Sad, Bolton Octagon, theatre of the people, .as long as they are middle class, conventional theatre goers, who agree with everything you do! God only knows how many other posts you have decided to censor? What is the point of a censored blog? Did I use foul language, or could you not muster a reply to the reality of your farcical production? ALL of the posts you have decided NOT to put up are available on 'SOUL SOURCE' for people to view and decide if they were abusive or just truthful! Keep the Faith Paul Sadot And thats it so far.....Sall and the Octagon really do not seem to have a clue, despite all their Hurrahs and pontificating. Very sad that a public funded body has so little 'soul' or intellect. I will keep you posted because they censor posts

NO YOUR RIGHT . BUT WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND EFFORT HALF WAY THERE IS GOOD ENOUGH . Kind words indeed... "half way there"? Blue max isn't that old surely?

Poor old Sally Boyd, still not out of the board meeting with a reply!? Bless! This is a copy of my third, as yet not published on the Octagons (we want your views site) reply. Come on Sally, wheres our posts? Are you too busy studying the history of the soul scene to put them up? You posted the last one of Emmas today. Do you need permission, after the board meeting to come up with a reply? Its hardly rapid response debate is it? Sort of echoes your enthusiasm for the subjectI think! Keep The Faith Paul Sadot Proves their site is a farce really.

Yes but 'BLUE MAX' is a timeless legend! Can't ALL be that good.

Have one, but too good to part with. Seen a couple over last few months on here.

Just sold my COED for £40! Whoops...ha!

A person who doesn't keep talking before each record. If the music is good, I dont need a monologue expelling its virtues. Especilally when, on most systems on the scene, you cant hear a word anyway! TRUST ME! If I want to know what it is, I will go and ask. Some continuity when moving from one tune to another, so that i can continue dancing and not listen to a diatribe about rarity and price...let the music do the talking. A dj who is into music often helps! Not someone who only plays pre 67, or No 70's, or No beat ballads, no r& b, no this or that. As long as they dont play Sh-t....I dont mind! No dogma! A dj who goes out and about as a punter and supports venues, not just the ones he/she plays at! A dj who stays for the whole event....sick of seeing some of our 'celebrity' dj's turning up just before and leaving just after, their spot. That is just arrogant and lazy and contributes nothing to the night. A record has to be played for the first time somewhere and a dj has to have the 'soul' and excitement to do it.....thats how it was every week 'back in the day'. Some dj's seem to have forgotten that. A person, who I can see is enjoying the tunes they are playing! Someone who has a 'soul' and a life outside the TOP 500 A dj is hired by a venue/promoter with prior knowledge of what they play, their style if you like. Why bother hiring different dj's/styles, if you dont want to hear them? Why hire Butch if you want the Top 500 or Andy Whitmore if you want an r & b spot. Just get a jobbing 'Smashy Nicey' type to do your bidding! Better still, take the cd you listen to on repeat at home and whack it on!....repeat of course! We are well aware of who we ask to dj at our venue and we ask them precisely because of their individuality, which is what the scene used to be about. I want to hear the DJ, not a live presentation of Northerns greatest hits over and over and over and over and over and over. That was never the way it was and will never be the way it is, for me..

Poor old SALLY doesn't seem to be able to keep up. Still two unpublished replies from me. I think they have to have a board meeting for each one, to see if their limited collective knowledge can muster a reply! Here is the second (as yet unpublished reply) Come on Emma, sorry, I mean Sally. Get my reply up. Its already on 'Soul Source', they seem more organised than you? "Sometimes you just have to let go" and post the thoughts of the people . By the way, I thought, being involved in theatre, that you would be aware that Bennett and Pinter dont just let anyone put their plays on? Their agents exercise artistic control and if they feel a director would not be worthy or bright enough to stage it, they dont release the performing rights? Suprised you dont know that Sal? Being a theatre boffin! Difference here is the writer of Wigan seems to have no artistic integrity and a strong desire to make a bob or two, no matter what. Even if it involves selling the 'collective souls' of all those who gave him access and help. Better get posting these up or you will have a back log. Keeping The Faith Paul Sadot ........poor old Sally. Having an intellectual crisis aswell as an identity crisis.

I have a copy to sell, but it looks rough, plays fine for djing etc....£50 inc special d. cheers Paul

Cheers Richie, the octagon can only quote theatre references and they are not even very good or accurate at that (their chosen profession )! Imagine the hash they will make of a play about the scene.....Im almost tempted by its comic value alone. Laughing at it, not with it of course!

Love it....the last bit especially.....you say you were a "northern soul ignoramous"? I think we can safely say that you still are, dont you!... Good on ya Paul By the way does "Emma" exist in any reality?? I think its Bolton Octagon and Cohorts attemping to muster together an intelligent comment! Not doing very well so far though. I posted this in reply to an EMMA comment on their blog....bless her. DUH, if you saw the original play Emma, you obviously missed the whole point!? The Vinyl The play WAS for "anyone", thats obviously why you enjoyed the ORIGINAL production. You, 'theatre people' (so you think!) keep quoting Beckett, Pinter etc...give it a rest. What next for Bolton Octagons re-writes of History THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST , without any victims? THE MINERS STRIKE, but ALL the mines stay open and communities thrive? Because that is what you are advocating with your 'artistic freedom' excuse. How about artistic integrity and respect for the subject matter.....especially when dealing with a socio-historic subject matter? Wigan only happened one way...it centred around and succeeded because of, wait for it Emma....VINYL! Of course people didn't talk in monologues, dont be so patronising or should i say, simplistic! Is Babbage re-writing the political content of the play? Do all the mills stay open in your version? Do Danny , Eugene etc have a bright future under Thatchers reign? So, why do you feel you can re-write the musical content. As, many people have already said, it shows your utter ignorance of what you are trying to portray. Keep The Faith PAUL SADOT

A reply to recent criticism of a forthcoming re-worked live version of the much respected northern soul related play. [Paul Sadot's reply is now on the blog spot for any prospective audience member to read. Why such bitterness? Yes it is a bit weird to not be using original recordings, but it's a play, just like Hamlet and Waiting for Godot. It is a story about four fictional people, based in the reality of memories of people who were there, improvisations from actors (I'm sure not all of which were sourced direct from the soul scene) and the imagination of the writer as well as the vision of it's first director. It is out there now to be interpreted in any way any theatre sees fit. The original show was amazing, moving and certainly introduced me (a previous northern soul ignoramous) to some of the most beautiful and important music ever produced. I am sure it did so for many others. If it really is all about the music then this, surely, is a good thing. This new production does not need to be so visciously attacked then... you did your job, it was great, brilliant even, if this production isn't any good, then let the audiences decide for themselves.] I really dont know why i bother replying to such tenuous , almost vacuous rubbish! You seem to quote theatre without having ANY credible knowledge whatsoever. But, because im patient here goes , for you (oh! mystery one ). Godot is a surrealist play base on abstract thoughts...hadn't you noticed? given your vast knowledge of theatre? Hamlet is a period FICTION, hadn't you noticed? The play, is a FACT...it happened and it happened that way! THEY PLAYED VINYL! WE didn't go to hear a bunch of actor musicians playing cover versions of black American artists songs! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS? Its a socio-historic piece. Im sure your not re-writting the political content of the play? So why re write the musical facts? Especially when dealing with a subject where musical authenticity is paramount?! What next for Bolton Octagon..A play about the Jewish Holocaust with no victims? Or perhaps THE MINERS STRIKE...but ALL the pits stay open and communities thrive....Hey, now theres an idea for your next socio-historic panto. P.S. if the Octagon can't get ANYONE articulate to post...please dont bother. Im busy on my next play. Keep The Faith PAUL SADOT P.s. "Your sure ALL of which were not sourced directly from the soul scene"...Well, im SURE they were, because I directed it and YOU DIDN'T You say you were a "northern soul ignoramous"? I think we can safely say that you still are, dont you!

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