Paul-s

I also remember BUB Dj-ing there....

I guess your severe myopic view and lack of knowledge of theatre history, and its use throughout the world amongst working class social groups, and in different settings, as a political tool to challenge the dominance of middle class theatre is at play here Mr Sucks: Augustus Boal, Jerzy Grotowski, Joan Littlewood etc. I'm afraid, I can't help you with your dogmatic perception of theatre: based on never going. The things i comment on here are things i have seen/heard and formed an opinion about. Whereas you seem to form an opinion with no experience of what you comment on. Its called conjecture based on bias. Though, you say you haven't seen the videos i mention but stick up for them? It goes exactly with your bizarre critique of a play you never saw. Some pretty deep thinking going on there. How was the wine you never tasted, perhaps you can give us your wise opinion on that? It would be as interesting and banal as this. Having not seen it, i guess you are in no position to comment on the social demographic that made up the audience, or the political content of the play. And, having also not seen the online dancers videos I discuss you are in no position to comment on them either: (I never mentioned Levanna, did presume/project it was her?). So Mr SoulSucks, as you reveal in your ignorant unsubstantiated commentary (based on a rigorous concept of "non-seeing"). You didn't say a word that isn't biased and based on a total non-experience of the thing in question. Maybe you need just a little more time to catch up and change your ways, so that you can form an informed opinion: not a dogmatic one based on an empty place. Think it over a bit more and looky looky at whats going on before commenting on it. I'm sure this is just a little misunderstanding but you definitely need a better script writer.

Below average dancer(s) (compared to what I've been lucky enough to see over the decades: I didn't stop when Wigan closed). They (a fair few of them now) are totally focussed on narcissistic self-promotion (spreading the homogenised dancing) rather than being "in the music" and discovering their soul. They spend most of their time promoting themselves to camera, rather than enjoying dancing: eyes closed without onlookers. They are always dancing for the camera rather than the music, with inane smiles, or mouthing the words of a top 500 tune, supported by empty clutching heart gestures, or rolling their arms towards the heavenly soul gods with an agonised look on their faces (Wigan motifs). Movements that have been copied rather than discovered. No groove or natural 'get down', uniqueness or cool. If thats you idea of refreshing we must have attended different venues over the decades. The entire Instagram/Youtube soulies self-promotion of their mediocre dancing to Northern Soul is nothing to do with Northern Soul. It's to do with an innate psychological need they have to self-promote. Of course, if you loved the Proms facade you will love the Instagram/youtube dancers (one of whom claims to be The World Champion Northern Soul Dancer because of a competition held in Blackpool with a majority UK crowd) . The two things go together like August and Deneen....

It all seems to have become so bourgeois: "lovely glass of wine in front of the telly", no need to go out the door and dig deep for records (just bid on ebay), dance for the Iphone in their kitchen or bang on about whats proper and whats not: when many of them left in 1981 and only came back decades later with a need to re-imagine what it actually was in order to compensate for missing decades of incredible music and a truly underground scene: kept alive and driven by a small group of truly dedicated people. Drag them into Sheridan's (or other brilliant venue) lock the door for 3 days, play brilliant tunes they have never heard, and probably never will! They missed the true apprenticeship. They seem scared to let go and truly listen instead of re-enacting (and signalling to each other) their limited knowledge on the dance floor week in and week out: by singing all the lyrics and demonstrably dancing them (based on the TOP 500, maybe even less). bourgeois boo͝r-zhwä′, boo͝r′zhwä″ noun > A person belonging to the middle class. > A person whose attitudes and behaviour are marked by conformity to the standards and conventions of the middle class. As usual it's my soul that reacts to this stuff. It's not, to me, anything to do with Northern Soul. It's corporate run BBC armchair viewing figures, fronted by celebrities who barely went anyway and are now supposed to represent us via there own narcissism and limited knowledge and experience of the scene and the music. All supported and hailed as "brilliant" by a plethora of sing-along-a Northern Soul returnees who seem to be happy that the historical re-enactment scene is being acknowledged, because in doing so it validates their 'Northern Soulfullness'. People will re-act (or re-enact) in different ways to what i'm saying. BUT, the scene needs some re-active energy, not just this neatly packaged, feeble, bourgeois BBC ratings driven Prom soul.

Now some venues might have the slogan: "Where the Same 100 Sounds Endlessly Repeat Week In Week Out"

Brilliant summary: "happy to wallow in a sepia tinted picture of how it never was. Because a lot of them went on the missing list from '78 until 2010 or even later local soul nights are becoming purgatory".

None of those listed would put their hands in their pockets for something other than profit i think.

Wow, thats very sad to see. I used to go there a lot when i was living in Wakefield. Had some great nights...

Some of them seem like theme nights already.

"It also features Sally Molloy, 27, who is the 2022 Northern Soul Dance World Champion." No disrespect to Sally, but this bit put me off. We have to STOP the Emperors new clothes type acceptance that there is any such 'World' event. We need to start calling it what it is: The Blackpool Northern Soul Dance Championship

Mmmmm, not sure who they are Shane? I think it might come from an interest in the scene from those who have been on it non-stop throughout and observe new revenue streams developing via new outlets and find it an interesting conversation. Many people, it may surprise you, have always been engaged with developments and contortions on/of the scene and find them interesting to discuss. Are you, as a soul policeman, saying that these discussion are prohibited? Have you been triggered by the conversation and need a safe space? To be clear, I am not criticising you for having a 'patron' subscription to the 'Only flans' Northern Soul page, I am merely starting a discussion. 'Original' is a strange and slippery term that, I suggest, would be hard to use in terms of NS dancing. Though, a new generation of Northern Soul dance teachers are claiming the term in relation to what they sell.

There seems to be many so called 'Northern Soul' dance teachers on the rise and emerging in countries around the world: its becoming a profitable income stream it seems I was inspired to ask this question, raise this debate, by a recent clip i came across where 'Patrons' can pay extra to get a Burlesque type Northern Soul experience. Is burlesque, risque Northern Soul dancing a part of the future of the scene? (in the attached clip she refers to 'flan', but i think she means 'fun' rather than baking) Also, have noticed a kind of homogenous two stepping, line dance, emerging from these teaching/declamatory platforms and into venues and would be interested in peoples thoughts: other than the usual, if their having fun etc etc. Are people listening when they follow a leader as opposed to the old method of going to nighters (getting off your t-ts) and soaking it up (then practicing solo in the living room all week). Is individualism disappearing from Northern Soul dancing due to the new generation of 'Insta(nt) Soul' (as i have seen them referred to) creating a homogenised image of what it is, and should be, on line? video-output-CD761F4E-EC95-4E02-9A6F-FB1688359745.mp4

Anything with Dustbin Stanley on, is a joke. Just the usual lazy rhetoric wheeled out once again.

I didn't see this limp attempt at a personal dig. Thanks 'Tiscapital' for addressing it, Now i will reply to Imperial 6 hours ago, Imperial C said: Once Upon a Time someone said "You are entitled to your opinion", but little Paul thought this only applied to him and he decided to dominate the thread using other peoples footage to pour scorn on other people having a good time and enjoying themselves. Poor Paul, it would not be long till the thread closed at midnight and he would turn into a pumpkin. They all lived happily ever after Imperial C, whoever she is, is again, like another lame attempt, trying to imply some kind of tentative link with me and the Proms. I guess they are trying to suggest a commercial link, but lack any intelligent argument to expand on the suggestion. 'Little Paul', i kind of like that moniker, like little Richard (who took no shit), so much appreciated. I have no debate with people enjoying themselves, it is more a rejection and argument against people calling this BBC Promenade 'Northern Soul' and i disagree that it sounds or looks good. Imperial C, I'm very far from 'poor', (in terms of integrity, honesty and a connection to my soul) but thanks for the concern. You come across, in terms of only being able to offer a personal attack rather than anything resembling a discussion, as a bit silly, absurd and petulant and that reveals a lot. "Pumpkin"?...you can call me your "little Pumpkin' if it floats your boat, or is it a reference to your top tune by 'Jay and the Techniques'?

The jokes right here. I can see and hear it.... Bbc proms northern soul last record..mp4

Yes. Any song or anything, with 'Once upon a time' is how this joke runs i think...

Totally bizarre and extremely tenuous comment, lacking any real comic integrity and seemingly quite puerile and petulant. The Beeb actually did attract a mass audience by calling this facade 'Northern Soul', that was enough to get masses of people, many of whom wear their soul on a tee-shirt to attend and pretend. One just has to listen to the clip i posted to hear how farcical this 'Emperors New Clothes event was'. I'm not sure what your 'Once Upon a Time' refers to? Is it the classic Sergio Leone Western where this phrase originated in relation to modern media, or the timeless phrase we begin stories with? I think as Kenny Gamble sang...."The Jokes on You'.....

Yes, you have got it totally right. I have been able to judge many things from a distance, including music at the back of a hall, for my entire life. Ironically, you are judging my ability to judge. No amount of TV editing can make this sound or look good. Even your terminology 'the Beeb' makes me want to laugh. The Beeb, the Archers, Strictly Come Northern Soul Dancing, Northern Stroll music, all neatly packaged and sanitised to within an inch of its soul. It's all very cosy and lovely, and of course we can trust the good old 'Beeb' to become the caretakers/curators of Northern Soul.... My footage.....ha! Lifted off instagram from some poor soul who attended ....

I'm sorry, i just cant take this as"Northern Soul. But if this rocks peoples boat and they feel it deeply, well, they are free to do so. The Proms, like every other BBC event are aimed at a perceived customer base and it seems to have pleased the base they had imagined. To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene. temp_10000000_646495744103466_191759475774737063_n.MP4

I think 'soulful music' is not limited to 'Northern Soul' and my musical taste is very diverse. But, the discussion is about a Proms event claiming to be 'Northern Soul', and many of us just didn't find the BBC representation of 'Northern Soul' either soulful or tasteful. Or, in fact, anything to do with Northern Soul (except in the song titles and advertising slogans). It's just a difference of opinion: but it is in a very particular context.

Because it was set in Wigan.

I totally agree. I was/am on the scene, including Wigan, which was formed of many great venues. Unfortunately, whenever documentaries, Proms, etc about NS are wheeled out, the makers take the same lazy route (via Wigan) in order to summarise an entire (complex scene). This is due to some people who have dined out (like Geldof on Live-aid) on the Wigan product(ion) since it closed and continue to push it as the be all and end all of the scene: even though these people never attended other venues or collected tunes beyond the Casino years. The makers of these events always head to this person(s) thinking they are the scene and its true historians: when nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, this Proms set list illustrates that, as does the discussion of it as a great occasion for Northern Soul fans. It's lazy, shoddy and aimed at 'cashing In' on a new demographic of those who never went or have returned after long absences (where they missed out on decades of incredible music: the scene didn't stop or wait for them). So, to make them feel at home (in a historical sense), anthems rule and, like the National Anthem, this Historico-pastiche scene has 'Do I Love You' wheeled out on every possible "state' occasion, often weekly at some venues or several times a night. People sing along and act out yesteryear, but it lost its soulful context decades ago and comes across as an empty re-imagining, often by people who are imagining that they were there when they weren't. It's a perfect example of 'simulacra' (likeness, semblance, a representation or imitation of a person or thing). Anyway, these discussion are, or were, a huge part of the scene. I personally miss those souls who have left us and who had strong opinions, they made the scene and their energy is missed. It was strong opinions that allowed us to create this scene, and i get bored of people saying, "don't be negative" or "for once Paul. let it be". There is a huge difference between 'critique' and 'criticism'. All opinions expressed are entirely my own and I do not represent the '(e)state of Northern Soul' .

Heres the set list from the Proms. To me its the usual, homogenised, parody of Northern Soul set list (it goes along with Baggy trousers, circle skirts and vests in terms of hackneyed motifs) that lazy producers or DJ's wheel out when they haven't got a clue or any real knowledge or experience of the scene or artists who have made it. A set list that, for me, lacks nuance, depth, understanding or any real care about music. A google set list......"Alexa what is Northern soul" type thing: though i imagine that might be better than this somehow.