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Everything posted by Chalky
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Steve is spot on. You may have 100.000 ten quid record but you would never sell the vast majority. The collectors either have these cheap common records r don’t want them. The number of expensive almost unaffordable records in our world is tiny compared to the amount of affordable. Concentrate on some of the cheaper stuff, the scene for one would be far better for it.
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As for how many who knows? No one knows who has what and where. The collecting of soul records is a tiny dot in the vinyl collecting world.
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This forum gets more and more obsessed by the money involved in certain records. Million pound collections, 1000 quid records, how mich will X fetch at auction. It no longer seems to be about the music for some? There are far far more affordable records than expensive. Records you can Dj with, records you can simply enjoy.
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Terribly sad news, one of the scenes larger than life characters, great bloke. R.I.P.
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What do auction prices tell us about current values
Chalky replied to Bbrich's topic in All About the SOUL
Surely the artwork we are concerned with is the music itself? Vinyl being the preferred or only medium to carry that work at the time. I’m sure if CDs and downloads were about in the 60s our world would be very different? -
What do auction prices tell us about current values
Chalky replied to Bbrich's topic in All About the SOUL
I do agree you can compare art and records or indeed any other object as collectables But you cannot compare a stamp which may be a one off with a record that is far from rare. You have to take each on their own merit. of course is somebody wants something so bad and they have the disposable income they are going to go above and beyond what others are prepared to do or pay. -
What do auction prices tell us about current values
Chalky replied to Bbrich's topic in All About the SOUL
With auctions it isn’t always supply and demand, the majority are not scarce and time and time again they are questioned as to why they are on an auction in the first place and not set sale and that they are often common records. Some of the prices paid, if you offered half you would probably get an offer of a copy. How can you compare stamps and records, you cannot. How old was the stamp, how rare was it in unused condition. Same for works of art, they can’t be compared, they are one offs for a start, any records are not. You are not comparing like for like. Cecil Washington for instance, dozens of copies about. -
From what I can see it appears nothing has changed in the pecking order regardless what you want to hear.
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Its full on at work mate (76 hours last week), I have no enthusiasm to travel unfortunately
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I've not been out yet, was going to go local at the weekend but I had a long week and was worn out. I am booked to go to Dab of Soul Weekender which I am looking forward to. And at the end of November the Spirit Of The Orwell @ Haydock with special guest Butch.
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You can get free test kits from the NHS. I'll be taking a test before I go out. Go online and order, they are delivered within a couple of days. https://www.gov.uk/order-coronavirus-rapid-lateral-flow-tests
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Will the rise in infections have an impact short term again? Seems quite a few got covid at Cleethorpes? If the past is anything to go by people will be going out under the weather with no consideration of the consequences for others.
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What’s It All About: The Counts Press Release: The Counts “What’s It All About/Watch The Clock” SJ1017 Release Date: Monday 15th November 2021 The Fabulous Counts were originally a Detroit High School group of five musicians who hung out together performing at local sock hops. Through a later chance meeting in a Wurlitzer Music Store with a slightly older guy, accompanied by his mother buying him a new guitar the group eventually became six. The Fabulous Counts, Mose Davis (Organ and Piano), Demetrius ‘Demo’ Cates with ‘Demo being pronounced as De-Mo (Alto Saxophone and vocals), Jim White (Tenor Sax), Andrew T. Gibson (Drums) and Raoul Keith Mangrum (Percussion and Flute) met Leroy Emmanuel for the first time. Leroy had recently returned from New York’s Apollo Theatre where he had been working as a session musician in a show that showcased Dione Warwick and Timmy Shaw. Leroy by now a seasoned musician had been backing other notable blues, jazz and soul performers of the time, Betty Lavette, John Lee Hooker and Carolyn Franklyn etc. Leroy began hanging out with The Fabulous Counts and following a subsequent meeting between the original five members and their manager Fred McClure, Leroy was invited not only to join the group but due to his greater experience become its leader. Fred McClure also happened to be the manager of another notable Detroit vocal group The Singing Metros, Percy Williams, Robert Lee Suttles, Gordon Dunn, Joe Buckman and Alfred Mitchell whom he managed either side of their RCA tenure. Being the manager of both groups, McClure often used The Fabulous Counts as the backing musicians on many of the Metros live performances as well as their Pied Piper stablemate September Jones. McClure had previously been a lightweight boxing champion of Detroit. A great career was halted when he attained a dislocated shoulder in winning a fight with an opponent named Grier at the Olympia. McClure did try to fight again, but all he did was spoil a record of some fifty undefeated fights, although losing his last fight he was never floored. McClure did eventually quit the music business for a quieter life as an FBI agent! The Fabulous Counts also work frequently with Dwight ‘Spyder’ Turner after he left the vocal group, The Nonchalant’s notably featuring as the backing musicians on his R&B Billboard and Hot 100 chart hit “Stand By Me”. Originally recorded for release under the artists name Of Spyder Turner & The Fabulous Counts, The Fabulous Counts name was dropped due to contractual reasons at the insistence of their manager Fred McClure. The younger Fabulous Counts had originally just been performing cover versions of blues and jazz standards of the day had under Leroy’s leadership began to create a more funk orientated sound of their own. So armed with some of their own original material they began knocking on several local recording studios doors. It was local Detroit Record Entrepreneur Ollie McLaughlin who extended an invitation to step inside his studio to see what they had on offer. In just one take the Fabulous Counts laid down the classic and much covered funk hit “Jan, Jan”. Mclaughlin both impressed and surprised took the song to Atlantic Records suitably impressed they told McLaughlin to release it in Detroit and if the sales were favorable, they would pick it up. 110,000 copies sales later and Atlantic did pick it up placing it on their Cotillion subsidiary label. Under the supervision of producer Richard ‘Popcorn’ Wylie The Fabulous Counts had recorded a total of 3, 45 single releases for Mclaughlin’s Moira Label, Jan, Jan/ The Girl From Kenya (Moira -103), “Scrambled Eggs/Dirty Red” (Moira 105) and “Get Down People/Lunar Funk Moira (108) of which only “Scrambled Egg/Dirty Red” failed to chart. Both A and B-sides of all their 3 Moira releases featured on the 1969 Cotillion album amongst cover versions of popular songs of the day. The Fabulous Counts left Moira Records during 1970 to join Armen Boladian’s Westbound label where they simply changed their name to The Counts. Charting during 1971 with their “What’s Up Front” album plus the release of a solitary 45 single “Thinking Single/Why Not Start All Over Again (Westbound 191)”. In 1972 while still part of the Westbound set up The Counts recorded two major label 45 singles under the pseudonyms of Bad Smoke Crawl Ya’ll Part 1&2 ((Chess-2124) and as Lunar Funk Mr. Penguin Part 1&2 (Bell 45-172) the latter being their biggest hit. A subsequent move south to Atlanta, Georgia saw the group become a quartet with original members Jim White and Raoul Mangrum choosing to remain in Detroit. Now based in Atlanta they joined Michael Thevis’s Aware Records label. While with Aware they released two successful albums and a handful of 45 releases taken from each. Their first album “Love Sign” released during 1974 reached #45 on the US Black Album Charts and their final Aware album “Funk Pump” during 1975 reached #58 on the black Albums chart. The Lineup of The Counts on the Aware projects was original members Mose Davis, Leroy Emanuel, Demo Cates and Andrew Gibson with session musicians Jimmy “Junebug” Jackson Jr (Drums and vocals) and Jimmy Brown (Saxophone and vocals) being brought in to supplement the band at regular intervals. Although never officially breaking up The Counts members began to go their separate ways to explore different life opportunity’s. During 1978 and while still in Atlanta Leroy Emanuel borrowed some money from his family and independently recorded several tracks which he hoped to tout around to independent record labels. By now Andrew Gibson had returned to Detroit so the late Jimmy “Junebug” Jackson stepped in as the drum on these sessions alongside Mose, Demo and Leeroy with the addition of local string section. Two of the songs from these sessions “What’s It All About” and “Motorcity” did eventually gain a 45 release when Leroy stuck a deal with Terry Mendelson to release them on his TM label. The Counts had previously known Mendelson through his brother Bernie while previously employed at Westbound. The TM 45 made very little noise through poor promotion and with many of the copies having mispressed labels. Although later reissued and mistakenly credited as being two previously unissued Westbound recordings on several later CD compilations it came to light that quite a few copies of this high quality elusive 45 had found their way into avid European Soul collector’s collections. With this in mind and after several years of cajoling with Leroy Soul Junction hopes to satisfy the demand amongst fans of this desirable record. The A-side “What’s It All About” features its composer Leroy Emanuel on lead vocals with the other Counts joining in on the chorus. The B-side of this 45 release which was taken from the same 1978 Atlanta sessions is the previously unissued Mose Davis penned “Watch The Clock” which is more in keeping with The Counts traditional funk groove and features Mose singing lead vocals, enjoy. As previously mentioned, the Counts never officially broke up and over the ensuing years have periodically reunited for occasional one-off shows. Mose Davis has remained in Atlanta and can be found playing his keyboard in the city’s airport. Leeroy Emanuel and Demo Cates later relocated to Canada with Leroy forming a new funk band called The LMT Connection which led to him frequently touring Europe pre pandemic. Demo Cates while still working as a musician also branched out into the world of acting securing parts in TV and movies including The Lion King, the musical. Words By: David Welding With acknowledgements to: Leroy Emanuel, Mose Davis, Dwight ‘Spyder’ Turner & Alfred Mitchell of The Metros. For further information please contact Soul Junction at: Tel: +44 (0) 121 602 8115 or E-mail: sales@souljunctionrecords.co.uk To buy visit https://www.souljunctionrecords.co.uk/SJ1017.html or your usual stockists SJ1017 -The Counts Promo.mp3
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I've seem more Four Voices than Soulettes over the years, I would say Soulettes is far rarer just not as desirable for the Djs and dancefloor, if it was it would be just as expensive
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A new mix catching up with some recent releases and a preview of some to come. Rance Allen Group - Stay With Me – Jai Alai Ursula Ricks – Sweet Tenderness – Jai Alai The Counts – What’s It All About – Soul Junction Cornell CC Carter – Don’t You Love It – Izipho Soul Michelle David – It’s Gonna Be Alright – One World Records The Summits – The Ps & Qs – Soul Direction Little Johnny Hamilton & The Creators – Oh How I Love You – Ace/Kent The Hesitations – Soul Superman 2 – Kent CD The Classic Example – Right On – Kent Anniversary The Freedom Affair - Give A Little Love – One World Records Rena Scott – You’re So Far Away – Izipho Special Delivery – This Kind Of Love – Shotgun Bettye Swann – This Old Heart of Mine - Soul 4 Real Mary Gresham – Just Me And You – Hit & Run Bettye Swann – Either You Love Me Or Leave Me – Soul 4 Real Jimmy Ruffin – Make Me A Winner – North Broad Street Records Seaquence – Visons )f My Love – Cordial LP Rudy & The Mudflaps – Is That Enough – Cordial LP John Bowie – Help Me Pretty Baby – MD Records The Shirelles – She’s Gonna Maker it – Kent Anniversary Honey & The Bees – Don’t Hurt Me – MD Records Realside – When I See Your Smile – Epsilon Ira Raibon – Shake It Off – Epsilon Lee Hurst – Whole Lotta Your Love – Diggin’ Deep
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Even when we could dance to and there was fast records played it never really did anything, always too rare and suffered from a lack of exposure as well.
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Hello mate. Hope you are both well? Thanks for the BD wishes. Yes Soulettes always dance floor death which is a shame as it is a good record. Four Voices is quality and a keeper, probably why you never see it for sale.
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Soulettes has always been rare but the prices it has sold for have never matched the rarity. Neither has it ever really taken off with the dance floor. I wouldn't have thought Four Voices is in the same league as Gwen Owens rarity wise?
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What do auction prices tell us about current values
Chalky replied to Bbrich's topic in All About the SOUL
As for insurance, most would want more proof than a spread sheet before they pay out. One I spoke to wanted it valuing by an independent expert. you had better speak to them and read the small print. -
What do auction prices tell us about current values
Chalky replied to Bbrich's topic in All About the SOUL
This is exactly what I wrote about earlier, many studies in to auction fever and the fact reasoning and logic get lost in the red mist. Set sale many would never part with the money they pay in an auction but often the emotions and whatever chemical process is released by the brain during the bidding process block out a buyers common sense. It is the "though shall not beat me" mentality has a lot to answer for. -
Been a few Professionals in recent times including the gold vinyl, or orange. Also acetates with alternative takes.
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This weeks Sound of Soul ™ 21st October
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Pretty sure you are right