Chalky

Probably because it isn’t forgotten maybe?

It can be whatever you want it to be

Rita by a country mile, powerhouse northern soul and as good as it gets. Betty version I love, more soulful, but it is a totally different record and not the dancer that Rita is.

Well they must have been having the kids young back then as most were just kids themselves, it was a youth scene then. I can’t recall seeing kids until the returnees returned to the scene late 90s early 00s. I remember one regular place I went, Alfreton leisure centre, they banned the kids as they were getting in the way and were annoying. Kids at venues where alcohol, drugs and other is rife should be a no no for any parent. If you are having kids they should come first, not your night out.

I don’t think anyone is dissuading new blood nor denying them the classics. But there is 100s of post Wigan classics thatbrarely get heard. All most are advocating, well me anyway is some imagination and flare. They are all new to the youngsters and there is far more to this scene than Wigan. So why not embrace it all instead of focusing on a few years only?

I posted a quote once from 1969 from one of the old boys of 1966, dismayed at the newies and the change from a mod, motown, chess, R&B and some then brit pop sound to a type we now know as northern soul. Same arguments in the late 60 as you got in the late 70s (northern, modern funk etc) to the 90s newies vs oldies and so on, all down to what some perceive as unnecessary change. What we got in our burgeoning youth is never as good as we supposedly get wiser. the sense of the unknown and maybe a bit of fear is replaced by a comfort zone and knowing what to expect. We don’t all like change (some relish it) but change doesn’t mean it died. I do understand where younare coming from but think “died” is the wrong analogy. i don’t like what we have now. It should be one of the best times with the very best of everything that went before and more. But what we have in reality is the opposite, an inward, backward looking retro scene, devoid of imagination, flair and characters.

Northern Soul has never died, it has just evolved. It might not be now how we remember it from our youth but but what is. The scene wasn’t the same in 1969 as it was in 1966, it wasn’t the same in 73 as it was in 71 and so on, it grew, it evolved, tastes changed just like fashion, might not be for the better but it didn’t die.

But the format does matter and to say it diesn’t is a bit silly, even baby boy is saying that about the soul scene. For a lot of venues it is actually stressed in promotion that it is original vinyl only.

But that something different will be well known to those who do the upfront side of the scene and if you frequent those venues it won’t be any different. Same for crossover venues which invariably play the bulk of records places like Thorne were featuring. I go to those venues, not the two you mention but the ones I do (not as often as I once did) offer nothing different except the fact they are not classics sounds. Maybe this topic should be merged with tn3bstate of the scene topic.

Oh and no one has private messaged me yet with one boot playing dj or boot promoting promoter? If we wish to improve the scene lets out them and let eveyone know who to avoid?

I think mostvoldies venues are more interested in numbers throug the door. It si only the other aspects of the scene that care first about the music, secondly attendances. We will never have it like we once did, thats the problem for many of us, especially those who want to hear something different. Very few new records, the majority of what there is are from the vaults and on cd which the scene frowns upon. The only thing essentially different is the oldies crowd aren't playing them. The something different crowd including those mentioned are playing very little if nothing new. Still plenty of good nights out there but lets at the very least be honest about what we are going out to listen to.

How many of these venues are playing reissues and boots? If you don’t wish to say in public PM me and I’ll say it. I’ve asked this question before and no one said anything. Sounds like one sweeping assumption to suggest the 55 venues are made up of boot playing Djs with promoters who couldn’t give a fcuk.

Even the “something different” or “upfront” are playing the same records. All the facets of the scene are basically oldies scenes now.

I think some, well many just go too far with the retro look, the size of the flares, the number of pockets etc. From looking cool to looking like a clown for some.

Smart and distinctive? I think it looks ridiculous on many of them. There is plenty of photographic evidence from around 80/81 at the casino and hardly any bags in sight.

Billboard allegedly but there is no written evidence of this in Billboard ( I went through them all for that time) or anywhere else...all in Russ's head if you ask me.

It wasn't aimed at you personally Dave I fully agree with you regarding the unnecessary pigeon holing. I said earlier that it didn't happen not so long ago, Soul wasn't even mentioned yet we knew what we were getting and everything was played under one roof in one room. I think most of the pigeon holing is dealers exploiting the particular in sound of the moment. It should all come down to if it is good or bad!

Whilst Disco is derived from the French discothèque it isn't a simple as saying everything is aimed at being played in a disco, that isn't what the disco we refer to is. Whilst disco of which we refer to was played in the clubs it is a genre of music in its own right and not about the place.

Liverpool's William Askew once again joins Deanna Gez in the studio for some quality soul music.

Take a look at the Stafford flyers, the only mention of soul was in the club name, no northern, modern, r&b, disco, crossover etc mentioned yet it was all played

We never had none of the pigeon holes, it was just rare soul or northern soul...no one cared whatbyear it was recorded, everything under one roof and in one room, thats what Steve means. All pigeon holing does is create division.

Disco initially had none of those acts mentioned by Robert, Village People etc, it was solely black music and a natural progression of what had gone before. The VP and the other acts etc were simply the money men cashing in on what was happening at street level and clubs, thats how I see it.

Are we sure ahe is a Witch though and not someone simply there at the time?

Apologies if you have already covered these names.... A picture I got from Billboard I think when we discussed the group elsewhere... Witches and Warlock in 1967. L_R: Faye Barnes, Charlotte Parsons, Glenda Barnes & Raymond Berry. Yhe group are also mentioned I think in the book Girl Groups...again apologies if you have already mentioned. The book may be the source of the picture come to think about it.... look forward to reading in full, always had an interest in the group.

It might be niche Des but Diggin Deep sold out their 300 copies in 24 hours, other take a little longer but eventually sell out.