Chalky

yes of course typo But side by side most weren't even nearly dunno, there was 4 prosecuted other year and sentenced, there is a topic on here somewhere

They only got caught out because they hadn't seen them in the flesh, they were sussed as soon as seen.

Technology will not make up for the products once used that can no longer be obtained. Paper is hugely different, as are paints/inks and the plastic. It will get harder but they will be caught out.

And there is absolutely no need to book a fake Dj for any promotion. More than enough who have real records and more than enough who will do it for nowt

I have asked several times who these djs are, think I got two names for a venue in west midlands. I have even asked for their names via PM if people do not wish to say anything and I will give their names out publicly, again nothing. Until they are named and shamed we will never get anywhere and the market will always flourish its not just Djs supporting these bootleggers, plenty of collectors too. Ebay is rife with them, takes forever to sort the crap from the real stuff.

Wonder if using .com means you have to pay as well? Think I will stick with .co.uk.

Is this sales tax just through US ebay and those who use a US address? UK etc sellers not affected?

Hot light or chip shop counter? The warped copy is Tim’s and as far as I am aware it still plays.

People only have to look t discogs or 45cat for various releases to see how many variations of any particular release there are. Different plants, different mixes, all told apart by the matrix. Brenda Holloway has 21 release, 15 of them US. Its almost certain a test press existed at one time for every different version even if it was just one to check for flaws. Some plants might check the first press of any batch rather than do a specific test press.

Are they real? I know there was some dodgy ones about at one time?

But the Frank Wilson are not RCA presses, they did the mastering. The pressing plants we know are ARP for the demos out of Detroit and Southern Plastics in Memphis. Theoretically there could be more and from other plants too but as Robb said highly unlikely today. Just about every Motown release will have had a test press at every regional plant. ARP it would appear usually had the label as well. The Frank Wilson at Southern Plastics didn’t. A test press is usually exactly the same as the demo or issue but without the label. It will bear the same matrix stamps. Not sure how much clearer you want it. just about any manufacturing process has the first few items checked before the batch is done, in any industry. That is all a test press is, make sure there are no flaws or nothing wrong with the press.

https://www.discogs.com/The-Velvelettes-Needle-In-A-Haystack-Should-I-Tell-Them/release/6013160 there will be many with a RCA matrix. The above has nashville matrix 10, 10 being ARP. There will probably be a midwest and a west coast press too.

Think we all know its ok to play, just Dylan being an arse. Its also not needed in the topic either.

Every nationally distributed release would be pressed at regional plants. I would imagine every plant would test press once a release reached the production stage, after all it would be bad practice to press 1000s and then find a flaw in the press.

Why would you need a test press left at the plant in case of another required run? It plays no part in production, its only for reference, quality etc. As for Motown policy, they wouldn’t require 6 test presses from the other plants in fact it doesn’t appear any from Southern Plastics Found their way to detroit so is it possibly it was solely for plant use?

Why is it? We simply don’t know unless they turn up

They would do a test press to test if it plays ok etc

Because they originally probably had plans to press and distribute so they would use the regional plants, saves the cost of shipping everything from Detroit. You never know we might see a monarch one for the West Coast one day As for how many, no one knows, just one as surfaced. But like I said Motown did the evaluation and quality checks with those from ARP. So the other plants wouldn't need to repeat all the processes just do a test press to check the quality of the press, so maybe just the one. Wasn't from RCA plant if memory serves, could've been Southern Plastics. RCA did the mastering etc. Just checked, the 5 in the matrix is for Southern Plastic Co. (SO).

Deadwax details for the test press out of Memphis A side - SK4M - 4916 1 A Nashville Matrix 5 ZQL 163317 B side - SK4M - 4915 1 A Nashville Matrix 5 ZAQQ 147105

We are keeping up It would be at other plants for distribution purposes probably. Easier and cheaper to press on other regions than to ship. The demos at ARP and the test oress are done for evaluation and usually 5 or 6 for any release. We know there was 6 at ARP and as I said earlier the other plant wouldn’t need as many as the evaluation was already done with the ARP copies. The test press would be to solely for quality purposes. It still bears the RCA matrix if memory serves, topic elsewhere about it from when it was found, not that many seem to take much notice.

Yes we know, he nicked it off Tom’s desk allegedly. But if you read what the manager of ARP says then Motown still have two more copies. The other copy we know of came via the ARP manager to Ron to Martin to Kenny via Tim Brown.

The UK acetates are about somehwere. If you are talking about a US Jobete acetate its all guess work. No one said the test press would fetch what it did but if you have enough money and you are a fool then that money is easily parted.

So going by what the plant manager says, Motown still have two file copies and just two copies at ARP are unaccounted for, presumed destroyed.

Did Berry get a copy. Owning the company he may have thought a company file copy was enough and it was his? It was rumoured Berry bought Reg Bartlett’s collection which was allegedly the most comprehensive collection of Motown. Its one of the hardest labels to collect because of all the various takes and mixes, represees etc, many only distinguishable by the matrix details in the run out.

This is what Ron Murphy wrote about Frank Wilson.... Here's the story on Soul 35019 by Frank Wilson The prime pressing plant for Motown was American Record Pressing (ARP) located in Owosso.Michigan now this plant was destroyed by a fire in 1971 but later in the early 80's I contacted some of the former employee's to see if they still had saved any of the records pressed there. Well I got lucky and found a few thousand records pressed at ARP starting from 1952 when the plant started right up to 1971, I visted and purchased records from about 25 former workers, one day I received a call from a former manager saying he had about 300 records to sell and this guy ended up having the best Motown items. Included in those boxes were the Frank Wilson (Soul 35019) and a test pressing of VIP 25034 a "MISSING" number which was the Chris Clark version of the same Frank Wilson song which had Clark overdubbing her lead vocal over Wilson's track. Now here is exactly what he told me when I asked him how he had all these mint records including the Frank Wilson on Soul, he said: "we would press 6 copies and send 3 to Motown for approval and keep the other 3 copies on file" then he said one day"the owner told him to get rid of all the older records on file because they were taking up a lot of space BUT instead of throwing away all 3 copies he saved ONE copy of each and took those home, and that's what I got. The other known copy in the UK was originally stolen by a Motown employee and then sold to that collector by Simon Soussan. So IF the former ARP manager that I got my copy from was correct and the other 2 copies the plant had were destroyed then besides the one copy stolen from Motown's files that would leave only 2 possible other copies to exist. My copy of Soul 35019 was near mint when I sold my entire Motown collection to Martin Koppel in 1994 at that time I placed a value of $4000. on that record based on offers I had for it up to that time. Martin Koppel had told me he would sell most of the collection by piece meal but since he loved northern soul he would keep the Frank Wilson in his collection BUt as it turned out someone else made him an offer he couldn't refuse.