paultp

The Northern Soul and Rare Soul scene (however you want to define it) is simply not an underground dance and youth culture. It was 40-odd years ago, but it isn't now - either underground or youth. In my limited experience, clubs in London tend to attract a mixed age group anyway. But if I were 17, saw some cool film/photos of young people (Keb excepted ) dancing acrobatically and then went down the 100 club expecting to see the place full of this sort of person - I would think I'd been conned! People who are attracted to the scene today by misrepresentation will hardly hang about. I think I said before somewhere that it would be preferable for young people attracted to the music and possibly a nostalgic view of the scene to buy a load of CDs and start up their own club, banning anyone over 30 from attending. They would have more fun, wouldn't have all the baggage of a scene that has been going over 50 years and could style it how they wanted. You might almost be able to call it a youth culture then. Maybe it is happening somewhere and us old gits don't know - I hope so.

Snow - well yes, it has been pretty bad. We had snow for at least a week in early December (Yorkshire) and the ice lasted for 2 weeks Christmas - it happens every year and so an increased volume of parcels and cards is fairly predictable. Royal mail don't discriminate between 1st and 2nd class cos it costs too much, they just lump it all in together and hope for the best.

The thing is though, Amazon has been running for years and online retailing including eBay has been going since the 90's. The Royal mail (mental picture of whistling postman) is still under the impression that it just delivers letters and is thus obsessed with the price of an ordinary first class stamp. It simply hasn't moved with the times and for some reason it has come as a shock that the number of parcels is increasing and we get snow in winter. I haven't had any mail this week yet and I am waiting for a first class package posted last Friday in order to finish a job for a customer. They "lose" things all the time too. So many businesses rely heavily on mail delivery and yet using Royal Mail is a bit like pot luck at any time of the year. Unless I send a record out Special Delivery I have no confidence that it will actually get to its destination. RM's services have deteriorated massively over the last few years; my letter mail turns up at about 2pm (never any on a Monday); packets sent 2nd or 1st class might as well be thrown in the bin; recorded is invariably not signed for so Special Delivery is the only service worth using. Courier companies are starting to eat into that business now as well. The thing that indicates that they know how crap they are is the fact that the compensation for recorded and first class has been changed from the value of the item (i.e. what you sold it for) to the cost value. If a company has sold something the value is the purchase price FFS! They end up with no stock and no profit when RM lose things now. If any other business operated the way Royal Mail does it would have gone bust ages ago, someone else would have come along and run a better service. Amazon is a business and so is rightly concerned about its reputation because its existence is dependant on it. Royal Mail couldn't give a toss what anyone thinks because it is a virtual monopoly. Unless it shows that it can move with the times, run efficiently and be trusted then privatisation and/or a break up are inevitable.

Sorry, but how exactly is that "an honest view of the Northern soul scene" ?

That's the beef.

Nothings wrong with it Mike, but my take on it is that, in my experience, every time someone comes along to look up the skirts of Northern Soul they already know what they want to see and so that is what they will show regardless of what they actually see. My view of the scene is that it is made up of a slightly different set of people with a passion for something that the mainstream doesn't know about or understand; people that don't want to be mainstream. There is an edge about it and occasionally a coolness but that only wafts around the edges. Every so often the mainstream gets a sniff of it and wants a bit - each time they do they chip a bit off and then p*ss off. I was only half joking in my previous comment, I'd like to see someone take some pictures of what is happening now and portray things for what they are, interview some people and get a real feel for the scene now and also people's view of what it was and has been. Portray the love of the music and the allure of collecting records, the dancing is a big part of the scene but the last few times I went out it seemed a secondary issue to most - it is in your head but not necessarily still in your legs. There are tons of interesting characters about and the small crowd of people that regularly go to nighters (of which I am not and never have been one) are well worth photographing and interviewing. At a Cleethorpes in the early noughties Jo W nicked someone's video camera and interviewed people at random through the Saturday night. The result was incredible, funny and passionate footage - no idea where it has got to. Why can't one of these creative johnnies produce something like that? Answer - Because they have no idea what they are looking at. They deserve having the p*ss taken out of them.

I've got a mint- copy - pm me a decent offer and you can have it. Cheers Paul

I've got a mint- copy (demo I think - but I'd have to check) - pm me a decent offer and you can have it. Cheers Paul

"His new project will touch on the Northern Soul and Rare Soul scene." Surely he should be asking for some fat old bald blokes to stand around stroking their chins then?

And just to confuse the issue JM auctioned one a year or so ago and it went over 300 quid

There's one on ebay [here] - cheap as well!

I thought I'd seen it all on eBay but Northern Soul tableware just about scrapes the bottom for me. I suppose if people are producing it there must be a market but this sort of thing just saddens me. If you must have a look at this "Northern Soul Dinner Set" it is [here] Why oh why

I had one on one of my sales lists - don't think I sold it.

That is the second want for this in a week, I had one in the sales section for a month (linked to numerous times from successive lists) without a sniff. Put it on eBay in the end. Funny old world

I think possibly the only way of stopping the flood of bootlegs onto ebay is for someone (with deep pockets) who owns the rights to a label/tune/artist/whatever to try and take eBay to court over it. Or possibly use trading standards (who are generally a joke) to do the job for them. eBay are clearly turning a blind eye to people churning out bootlegs and selling them via eBay, surely at some point this becomes consensual? At the end of the day, it is people buying them that ensures the practice continues, if there was no demand nobody would produce them.

The Stafford thread - head and shoulders above anything else

Always good to get a mature response

Sorry, are you saying that as a moderator it is your job to check prices that people are offering records for sale at? I thought sales prices were a matter for the seller (and the buyer if you get one). If this is what you are now doing could I ask what you are using as the benchmark for this checking?

I spotted a record on eBay the other day that had been listed in the wrong section, set my snipe and forgot about it. The snipe failed and when I had a look at it I found that the seller had ended the listing early. Now I know this happens a lot but have a look at the question/answer at the bottom of [this listing] and see if you believe it. :no: The seller did, I contacted him and he said he'd got $50 for it ..... which was lower than my snipe. Aaah well ... some you win etc.

When I was 16, anyone out on the town aged over 25 was called grandad

People were making and selling tapes of tunes right up until about the millennium, nobody on "the scene" said anything about it, it was accepted. People have made tapes for their mates and other collectors and again nobody said anything about it. Now people have changed format, they cut CD's of their tunes and swap them. People gave away tapes of tunes at venues, again right up until the millennium, nobody said anything about it. Now it seems that giving away a CD to regular attendees at a club is a heinous crime. I think it is laughable that anyone on the Northern Soul scene is now concerned with the legality of anything when bootlegging tunes has always been a part of the scene. Hands up if you have never bought or sold a bootleg? A good few people could put there hands up to making them in quantity. Like legality has ever been a concern. Like anyone is innocent here, anyone care to name major bootleggers from the 70's who now think they are legit? I don't agree with people making up bootleg CD's and then selling them, I certainly wouldn't buy them. But if people buy them and the people who own the rights do nothing about it, then that is their concern in each case, same with bootleg vinyl. I just take issue with the point that people will not buy legitimate CD's when they have been given an anniversary one, that is just facile.

Define "the scene" Here's a question; is a club running off a 100 CD's to be given to people who have supported that club throughout the year and done for no profit ruining "the scene" more than having a record played five times in a night to popularise it so that the already pressed bootleg can be sold out of the back of a van a fortnight later purely for a cynical profit? Think about it.

The Seventy 7 release has reached a ton a few times and that legal 2nd issue regularly sells for 40. There have been loads on ebay for the last 2 years from the same seller.

What a load of crap. We gave away free CD's at These Old Shoes at each of our anniversaries, we asked each DJ that had guested through the year to give us two tracks from their own collection, the result each year was a quite special CD that reflected what had been played at the club throughout that year. It was a labour of love. People felt that they had been given something that reflected their experience through the year and we made no profit whatsoever. Maybe if you weren't trying to wring the last quid out of Northern Soul you would see these CD's for what they are, something given back to the people that had supported a club through the year, reflecting what was current at the time. They have no impact on people buying commercial CD's because at the time most mainstream CD's were into exploiting the Wigan Casino theme rather than what was current. I actually sold Goldsoul CD's off the These Old Shoes website but stopped when I found out I was being charged more than others and couldn't compete with shops selling them for what I was being charged wholesale. If you were that bothered perhaps you should have partnered with the clubs to legitimately produce the CDs instead of moaning about a market that you were killing yourself through selective discounting. Just MHO Cheers Paul

Yeah, I bunged him a fiver to say that Interesting point about JM's price guide, it might be worth noting that "top book price" according to that on Fourth Day - You Turn Me On - DT is £45. Just shows that a guide is a just a guide, particularly when it came out over 2 years ago. I thought 150 was about right and so did the buyer. Can I remind everyone that this is a sales thread, if you want to discuss current prices of records then "Look At Your Box" might be more appropriate?