Roburt

The lack of old film (& even photo) evidence of what went on in the 60's / early 70's UK soul scene is a real problem. There was the period of around 4 years when fake soul groups were all the go. Loads of US artists came here but had to perform as 'fakes' (not their fault as they were told do the gigs or we'll not pay your airfare home). The only remaining (photo) evidence of this period seems to be the few photos of the Invitations (fake Drifters) in an old UK book on the Drifters (shots taken at the Wheel being featured in that book). Then there's all the real acts who came over here in that same period. It was (many of) these artists that inspired the UK beat group / R&B group scene (and in the mid 60's, every UK pop group was following the R&B route at least on their live show material). These visitors all played the London venues when over here, so you'd think a few photographers or music mag guys (mostly London based people) would have documented their visits ... SADLY that doesn't seem the case. When Jo Wallace was collating the photographic archives for London museum collections (documenting music related photos), she found next to none that were of visiting soul stars. Of course, big touring parties such as the Motown & Stax Reviews were covered but not the Oscar Toney Jnr, Roy C, Inez & Charlie Fox, Alvin Cash & the Crawlers, Billy Stewart, Edwin Starr, Lee Dorsey, Spellbinders, Vibrations, Mad Lads, Garnett Mimms (apart from the photos on his live UK LP), James & Bobby Purify, Percy Sledge type shows. HECK, the likes of J J Jackson, Clyde McPhatter & more even lived here for some time & there seem to be very few photos of them even. IN THE US, it's a totally different story. Loads of old photos were taken, though many aren't properly stored & documented so may be lost to us in the near future. ALSO many local TV stations ran their own soul shows for a period of a few months to a couple of years. Problem is most of the footage was junked within a couple of years as no one at those stns could see a market in the future for footage of current soul artists back then.

About 15 minutes each day (I'm on the computer at home), coz there's always loads of interesting stuff to come across. Used to do the same with my old B&S mags before t'internet came along. Also loads of good stuff in old US newspapers that are on-line but searching thru them is a lot more 'hit & miss'.

Ady's probably your man for the full info on this 45 & it's various incarnations. Seems strange there are so many as the 45 did very little at the time. It didn't even EVER get a mention in Billboard magazine, not even being listed there as a new release never mind getting a review. The cut did make an impression in Baltimore (the nearest big city to her home town of Havre de Grace). There it charted (low) on radio station WWIN's chart in early Aug 65. It was also a song she didn't perform much (if at all) live. She cut her 1st tracks when only 14 years old (1964) but was still performing as a 17 year old in 67 ... in the early years of her career, she only did live shows on weekends (coz of school) & her mother would chaperone her on all her gigs .... she would perform her later Wand cuts much more than "Come Back Baby".

With ska / reggae records, apart from Atlantic in the mid 60's (Ska Kings "Jamaican Ska" was released around the world on Atlantic after the New York guys did a deal with Kingston Jamaica) and Johnny Nash / JAD's involvement from around 1968 to 1972, the mainstream US majors had little contact with reggae. When a reggae record hit the UK Pop Top 20 charts, US labels would scramble to license the 45 for release in America. Tamla did so with Bob & Marcia .... BUT SO DID THE LIKES OF .......... Uni who licensed "The Israelites" by Desmond Dekker in April 69. Other US labels did similar with other UK reggae hits. With US Motown following the lead of EMI in the UK with regard to some 'in-house' recordings, it shouldn't be surprising that Motown guys were watching what other 45's were hitting the UK pop charts & signing deals to release em.

I can't tell you the business model for Shrine Records BUT the fact that most stock was lost in the April 68 riots can't be disputed. Many black businesses were torched in the riots, record shops & warehouses alike were totally burnt out ....

You only have to look at the thread on old 'soul packs' to see other examples .... B&S had 100's of copies of Darrell Banks "I'm The One Who Loves You" & Margie Joseph "One More Chance" at 10p each and sent them out in soul packs every week in 1972/73. They had 100's of other 45's for just pence that now sell for large amounts.

Checking this list in the back of B&S .... 10 x 45's for £1 ... any gud uns on offer .... William Bell & Carla Thomas .... Howard Tate ........ Chuck Jackson ....... Blinky ...... Staples Singers ...... Johnny Taylor & Carla Thomas ... David Ruffin .... MarKeys ... Dells ..... Darrell Banks .... Billy Harner ... Judy Clay ....... Margie Joseph .... Jimmy Hughes ... maybe could get 10 from those 14 ... BUT £1 + P&P ... a bit steep ....

Does Gordy count ??

The Hi Records situation towards the end (as an indie owned outfit) was typical for a company that had it's own studio. It had the studio, the studio band & the artists ... so cutting new stuff wasn't a problem but paying to have 45's pressed up was. So the Hi cuts towards the end escaped in the UK, Europe & Caribbean (+ other countries as well) in good quantities BUT US copies became more & more scarce (end of 1975 thru 76)

Weren't lots more named after the owner's family .... how about Oliver Sain's Vanessa + loads of others in similar style (apart from those already mentioned above). How about both Abner Records (Chicago & Cleveland). Boddie in Cleveland. Probably DeBrossard & Daywood (Cleveland) Gerim (Chicago) -- Gerald Sims. Zenette Records (Baltimore), Kenny Hamber had a 45 on this label named after the DJ owner's daughter. Burman (Baltimore). Ru-Jac after ... RU - Rufus Mitchell (owner) & ??. Does Big Jim count, the nickname (from American football) of Jim Brown. Do initials count ... such as MB Records (Bobby Kline) named after owner Marc Brown.

The New York based (as against NY & Detroit based Geneva Records) Geneva Records ..... .... the label I'm meaning is the tiny indie run by Gene Evans ... GENeEVAns ... GENEVA ..

... YEP ...

Near the end (bankruptcy), a label would have no (or very little) money to pay for big pressing runs. Their distributors would have heard they were struggling, so they would be holding back any payments to the label for past releases in the hope that they went under & the bill wouldn't have to be paid. The guys at the company would most probably be selling all the old stock they had in their storerooms at knock-down prices. The label wouldn't be able to afford to bung any DJ's or hire any promo guys, so getting airplay would be difficult. Studios wouldn't let them cut any new stuff + musicians, arrangers, producers etc would steer clear unless paid up front. Maybe one of the guys who owned the label (or one of their artists with a 45 due out) would stump up just enough for a few promo copies to be pressed up & sent out. Talk about the 'living dead', nothing worse. Such a label in summer 1970 was LA's Canyon. They had stuff they put out that was selling well + pressed up loads of stuff for all the labels they distributed .... BUT ... the money going out exceeded the money coming in (hit records initially caused you grief as it would be 3/ 4 months before any money would start rolling back in but you had all the bills to pay -- pressing plant, promo, mag ads, DJ bungs -- right at the beginning). So by September / October 70 Canyon was going under & no one was paying any bills / invoices they sent out. Releases such as "Frankie & the Spindles "War" must have died an instant death (especially with the big label alternative versions).

For much of the 60's, just about everyone in the music biz regarded Tony Middleton as just a cabaret singer ... coz of that, he got many recording jobs in that genre.

Can't ignore guys like Sonny Til, Clyde McPhatter, Eugene Pitt, Jimmy Ricks, Jimmy Castor & the like.

If there wasn't already a good group using the name .... .... they could bill themselves as the Masqueraders !! ... OR LETS GO (WAY BACK) TO THE LATE 60's .... they could be the Fabulous Dynamics (but not the Original Dynamics).

... believe me I never sang with the Dynamics .......... That's what you say now .... BUT ... I expect we'll see you up on that stage @ Prestatyn next year !!

Surely, he can't have ..... ....... DECIMATED !!!! .... DESOLATED ....... DESECRATED .... DESICCATED ....... DESCANTATED .... and .... DEPRECIATED !!

There's an RnB nuta in ULL who I think may have a few rekkids ..... AND ... he's alas postin onear.

Kegsy, you always muddy the water !!! (marked you down above to stop you becoming a Supersoulstar).

Seem to recall another thread about this a couple of weeks ago.

I know it's done in a sort of Ramsey Lewis style (very loose definition as the guitar -- lead instrument -- is nowhere near Ramsey Lewis style or even soulful in any way) but this version of the old (Nat King Cole) standard just ain't worthy of soul nite plays (IMHO).

The LP cover ....... Discogs has the info off the sleeve which gives the group line-up on the album as The Dynamics are Fred "Sonny" Baker, George White, Samuel Stevenson & Zerben Hicks Another site states .... Isaac "Zeke" Harris, George White, Fred Baker, and Samuel Stevenson were the Dynamics. (Zerben R. Hicks also sang with them but left shortly after their album release.)

Lorraine, what was it like running a recording biz out of this place .............