Roburt

Back in 2008, "This Magnificent Moment", a documentary about the Magnificent Men was in production. A trailer had been released to publicise the project in 2006 (see below) and further work was ongoing through 2007/08. A show the reformed group undertook in November 2007 was filmed, this footage to go into the proposed documentary. Anyone know if the project was ever finished & the film released in any form ?

Used to visit the Soul City record shop in Monmouth St ... AND ... send off my postal orders to get 45's sent by them ... ... worked for British Rail at the time, so got free travel to London and to Leighton Buzzard (F L Moores) + Manchester of course.

As already stated, Sam always had a decent TV profile in the US, so he was known to folk across the States even though he had no national hits. Cos of that, a new Sam Fletcher 45 would be viewed by radio stn DJ's as a thing not to ignore ... Don't think Sam did much (live wise) down in Dallas / Fort Worth but this 45 did ... a featured pick record on KNOK in November 1964 ... ...

... "Sam appeared on a top Italian TV show in 1963, thanks to RCA records" ... .... The clip from this show of H B Barum is also up on youtube (but it ain't relevant to this thread).

Sam appeared on a top Italian TV show in 1963, thanks to RCA records. HOWEVER, this was before the Beatles / Stones breakthrough, so the music they wanted US stars to perform on this RAI Saturday night peak time show was very M-O-R ....

This version is a bit closer to home for Edwin (as he used to be the featured singer with Bill Doggett's group) ...

Sam Fletcher appeared on lots of TV shows back in the late 50's / 60's; in the US & abroad ... here he is during one of his TV appearances ...

I interviewed Johnny Pate many years ago. With all the massive tracks he had a hand in, I asked him which of the 1000's of cuts he worked on was he most proud of. He came back with an instant answer; SAM FLETCHER's "I'd Think It Over". I asked the reason for this & he stated Sam was the first BIG ACT he was trusted to work with. This was because Sam had lots of big regional hits including "Tall Hope" & "I Believe In You" ahead of his Tollie recordings. He also starred on lots of US TV shows -- 'The Dinah Shore Chevy Show' (1963 along with Barbara Steisand ) + on American Bandstand and other TV shows., So Sam had a 'high profile' on TV when only a few blacks got to star on US TV variety shows at the time.

Lots of great info on this thread about many folk involved with GW. One of those being Sonny Sanders. Sonny must have been quite switched on (business wise) as he was already getting into running labels as early as 1962 (when he was only 23 years old). Along with Robert Bateman, he had formed the Satintones in Detroit in 1957 (when 18 years old) and they were signed to Motown. But he soon moved on from Motown & with Bateman started SonBert Records (part of Correc-Tone) in 62. He was also working with the likes of Wilson Pickett, James Velvet, Gino Washington (all for Correc-Tone) and Bobby Lee Watson (Maureen). From there, he was onto working at GW and then off to Chicago. Not a bad start to a long & successful music career.

One of Radio One's soul DJ's used to play Terry Callier tracks all the time around the late 70's, guess it was Robbie Vincent (but I could be wrong). After that, his music faded from view for a while & then was picked up on by the British guys mentioned above. I saw him at the Jazz Cafe and he was just brilliant. Lots of those present had copies of his records that we wanted signing. So after the show we asked one of his entourage if Terry would come out to chat & do some signing. Nothing happened for quite a while... and then Terry came running out ... "I've only just been told you lot were waiting on me" he said ... "I'M SO VERY SORRY TO HAVE KEPT YOU WAITING" ... what a complete gentleman he truly was. HUGE TALENT coupled with COMLETE HUMILITY ... a unique combination.

Jumping back to the part of this thread that dealt with Gene Redd's work in the 1960's .. ALSO earlier Tony & Tyrone's Atlantic 45 featuring "Please Operator" was mentioned ... I added this statement, which was supposition ... Jumping back to Tony & Tyrone, their "Please Operator" seems to have gained a LATE release (Nov 67) for the people involved. If it was actually cut in Detroit, I'd say it had 'sat around' for a while before Atlantic picked it up. In similar fashion, A Musicor 45 was released in June 1968 -- the Toys "Sealed With A Kiss / I Got My Heart Set On You" (MU 1319). The B side song was co-written by Gene and he also arranged the track. But I'm sure he was long gone from Musicor by summer 68. So this track must have laid around for some time before it escaped on this 45. I don't believe with Musicor singles that it's possible to date a track from the info included on the 45's label.

We didn't have cars on our early niter trips, so usually took public transport (bus / train). When going to the Mojo niters (66/67), we'd hang out afterwards (Sunday morning) at Sheffield bus stn cafe (waiting for the 1st bus back to Donny). Then, as a big Sunday dinner would be forced on us if we went home, we'd usually crash for a few hours in a town centre cinema. When the Mojo closed, we turned to the Nite Owl (Leicester -- getting there by hitching or train usually). My mate Tom Sleight got to take us in his dad's car one week. We called at Leicester services (M1) on the Sunday morning. But after that stop, he blew the car's engine up, so we never got to use it again. Then the Owl was also closed, so it was the Wheel (going by train at first & then lifts in mate's cars). The ritual in Manc on Sunday mornings, was to wait around in the car park behind the Wheel while lads played niter sounds on Discatrons. We'd then head over to Piccadilly for the 1st available train back over to Yorkshire (or drive back mid morning).

I can't tell you which Arctic tracks were cut in Detroit but I do know when Gamble & Huff were over there (@ Motown and GW). Gene Dozier had quit Philly to try his luck in Detroit after chatting with Mickey Stevenson backstage @ the Uptown. One of the last things he did in Philly was start co-writing a song with Norman Johnson. It wasn't finished when he headed out of town. Both guys did further work on the song -- Norman's version became Eddie Carlton's "It Will Be Done (June 65). Gene laid down a demo version of his effort which was released as "Swoop Down On You" and credited to Lorenzo Manley (a 1966 Original Sound 45 release -- the uva side of the 45 being cut by Lorenzo himself in LA after Gene had moved there). So, Gene headed off to Detroit & went to Motown's studio. He didn't really get the welcome he was expecting but did get 'taken on'. He told me he sang background on Stevie Wonder's "Uptight" sometime in Fall 65. He co-wrote some songs with other Motown writers, these included one release a while later on the Marvelettes ("Too Many Tears, Too Many Times"). But he told the Motown team his name was "Billy Jackson" aka Billy the KId (coz he was still young). Gamble & Huff came into town and hung out at Motown. The guys there said ... Oh, you'll know Billy Jackson who's working here now ... puzzled (coz they knew the real Billy was still back in Philly), they asked to see the guy ... that's not Billy Jackson, that guy's name is Gene Dozier they told the Motowners. So Gene / Billy was asked to move on in late 65 / early 66. He moved across town to work with Golden World / Solid Hit. There he was responsible for Pat Lewis's "Let's Go Together" (March 66 release), Theresa Lindsey's "Daddy-O" (May 66 release) & Pat Lewis's "No Baby No" (a later Solid Hit released cut, which had obviously been cut a while before it's release) + other tracks. But Gene soon decided to move on again, this time to LA. There he hooked up with a new musical partner (Santifer) & cut the Blossoms "Let Your Love Shine on Me" (October 66 release) & tracks by the Groovettes ("Think It Over Baby", etc) put out on Reness. BACK TO THE QUESTION THOUGH ... Gamble & Huff exposed Gene Dozier's deception at Motown some time in latish 65 / early 66. So Gamble & Huff were over in Detroit to cut tracks during that time period ... so I guess those tracks would have been released on or after Arctic # 115. I guess the likes of Robb would hear the work of Detroit musicians if he listened to the right Arctic tracks from that period (late 65 through to mid 66 releases I guess). No doubt the guys that check out the Motown track recording online database can easily ID when "Uptight" was laid down and when "Too Many Tears, Too Many Times" was also laid down to get a more accurate date for Gene's work at Motown.

The Bandwagon's US 45 was doing so well by late May 68, that Epic sent out new promo copies to radio stations & music mags across the States. Their new 45 followed just after & was reviewed as a potential pop chart contender in those mags in June 68 ... the mags having reported their original 45's regional breakout status in April 68.

Back in the 1960's, US 'black' TV channels usually struggled to get loads of high priced advertising. Coz of this, they had to put on cheap shows. With soul music making stars of black singers / groups, many being based in the cities where black TV channels existed, it was only natural that these stations would have their own black music TV show. Some became big & went national (American Bandstand -- both pop & soul acts starring on this). But others stayed local or were shown on far less stations. Shows such as Shindig, Hollywood A Go Go, Shivaree (all featured both pop & soul acts), The Beat, SOUL (see ad below), Teen Town, Upbeat, etc were typical of the type of music shows that aired back then. Many times, they'd play host to a national act who was appearing in their city that week and add in local acts who were always available to appear. But some weeks they'd struggle to get enough acts on to make a full show. So, enterprising music biz folk decided if they filmed one of their acts singing their latest release, then this footage would have a lot of potential customers & the act wouldn't have to travel to numerous different locations to appear on local TV shows. This practise spread to soul acts around 1967 and these short films (the equivalent of later videos) were shot & mailed out to likely customers at black TV stations. One such 'early' film was made of THE BANDWAGON performing "Baby Make Your Own Sweet Music". This track had been released on an Epic 45 in mid November 1967 -- initially as 2 different promo copy 45's -- one featured 2 Bandwagon tracks, whilst the other featured the Bandwagon's plug side track in conjunction with Sly & the Family Stone's track "Dance To The Music". Sly's cut was well received and his cut was soon getting lots of radio plays, it made the R&B charts and then the pop charts. The same can't be said for the Bandwagon's offering. Although their cut was a very commercial song written / produced by Sandy Linzer & Denny Randell, it failed to take off. It's lack of radio plays was probably the reason why (early in 1968) a film was made of the group performing the song. This was duly sent out to a number of black TV stations. But again, take up was slow. THEN, for whatever reason, a black TV station in Detroit added it to their local music show and it aired. The film got a good response, so they added the film to another edition of their music show. The response to the film hadn't gone unnoticed & soon a local pop radio station added "Baby Make Your Own Sweet Music" to their playlist (this was in late March, 1968 -- this was aver 16 weeks after the 45 had been originally put out. Again, the track got a good response and soon it entered the radio station's chart; CKLW. Before the middle of April it was in that station's Top 10. Plays for the track began to spread, with it getting radio spins in Chicago, New York as well as in Detroit. This 'action' was noticed by the A&R guys at Mercury and that instructed one of their Philly based guys to cut a version of the song. Thus, in April 68 a Smash 45 was released; Jay And The Techniques -- "Baby Make Your Own Sweet Music". The Jay & Tech's version was picked up by many radio stations, both pop & soul orientated. A battle was now on between the two versions. Jay & the Tech's had an existing track record, with a couple of their earlier 45 tracks getting lots of radio exposure, where the Bandwagon were a 'new' group, their version of the song being the plug side of their first ever release. The battle between the two versions unfolded, with the Bandwagon's version doing best on the R&B charts, whilst Jay & the Tech's did far better on the US pop charts. Jay & the Tech's were made available to TV music shows, whilst the existing Bandwagon film continued to get aired. Both versions made a noticeable impact, so much so that both were also released overseas. Jay & the Tech's being put out in Canada, the UK, Spain and Japan. The Bandwagon's version gaining release in Canada (not unusual for a track that had done well in the Detroit area), UK (on Direction) and Holland. The song caught on with US & UK soul fans and other versions followed. Motown group, the Monitors cut a version which was included on their album 'Greetings We're The Monitors) late in 68. Ahead of that, ex US group the Velours / Fantastics cut a UK recorded version of the song that was released here on MGM (September 68). So, in this instance, it was the film of the Bandwagon performing the song that eventually resulted in the tracks US chart success and it gaining a UK release. The group's follow up 45 did OK in the States but became a massive UK pop chart hit ("Breakin' Down The Walls Of Heartache"). This success led the group to come over here to tour and they soon decided to settle in the UK and to further their recording career outside their native country. WITH the film of this track being just about the first example of a 'soul music video' creating interest in a 45 and eventually resulting in that 45 charting, you'd have thought that SOMEONE would have deemed it 'historic footage'. With this status, the film should therefore have been preserved and 'rolled out' during TV documentaries about TV music shows and how 'videos' would soon become a major way of promoting record releases. That does not seemed to have happened as the web searches I've undertaken have failed to identify the current whereabouts of this footage.

I got in touch with Sidney Barnes as he co-wrote songs in 1965 (along with JJ Jackson) with Ronald Moseley, who at the time was working with Robert Bateman for End Records. He recalls a lot about Ronald Moseley & Robert Bateman from those times -- he says he'll get back to me with the info a bit later on. I'll pass along whatever he still recalls.

Robb, I don't think what you read can have been in Billboard. All I could find relating to Robert Bateman in Billboard (apart from credits for 45 releases he gets noted on) were these ... An early Mercury related 45 that Bateman / Moseley were responsible for was the November 65 release on Phillips -- The La Vettes – Practice What You've Been Preachin' (# 40338). He had time at Double-L, Capitol & End before going with Mercury ... at End he also worked with Moseley (at the time Moseley was penning songs in conjunction with Sid Barnes & JJ Jackson) ...

Canada; November 73 ... you know things must have been getting bad when free-wheeling biz's like record labels started calling for government intervention.

Robb, lots of the info you just put up on the GW thread on Soulful Detroit should also go up on here as it adds more to the story ....

I sent Dave copies of some of my Prestatyn pics. No idea if they've ended up in the book or not though. He only asked for pics of a few of the acts I had pics of, so I didn't send that many to him. Here's one of them that shows Dave's old mate John Poole (RIP) ...

An ad for another show on her late 67 tour. It was mainly London clubs catering for black audiences that were still booking lots of black soul / ska acts late in 67 ... this was one such club ...

Info on both of Maxine's UK tours in 1967 ... https://garagehangover.com/maxine-brown-q-sets-gigs/ When UK student unions still booked the top live acts ... 1967 ...

To answer Robbs question from above ... I think that Way Out were trying for a Motown sound on this 45 ...

Another Cleveland / Detroit link ... the top Motown & Detroit acts were always playing live dates @ Cleveland venues ... THE MIRACLES @ LEO's CASINO ....

A UK music mag interview undertaken by Maxine during that tour ... PLUS an ad for a London gig she undertook on the tour ... the changing face of London club live bookings can clearly be seen in the ad (not 100% soul acts anymore) ... EVEN Alan Bown had quit soul & was into his "Toyland" / Outward Bown era.