Roburt

Lots of songs (back in the day), were knocked out in a few minutes by teams working on salary at places like the Brill Building (New York). Many writers worked as part of a team, one doing the music, the other the words. Many folk in the music biz were quite perceptive & realised that getting their name registered as a co-writer on a song was well worth the effort & so it has proved (with people still raking in royalties on the more popular ditties 60 years down the line). I once asked Sidney Barnes how he & J J Jackson went about the task when they were a writing team. They seemed to follow along the well worn same path as established by the Brill Building teams -- they'd hire a room equipped with a piano, Sidney would bring along a bottle & they'd stick to the job for a 5/ 6 hour stint. This thread ain't about a Barnes / Jackson song though. I thought I'd do a thread on a different old song. This never hit the really big time (sales wise) in any of it's many incarnations but it does help illustrate the long & winding road many songs have taken. I've chosen HURTIN' INSIDE to illustrate this piece. The song came into existence in 1959 as a joint effort from Teddy Randazzo and Cirino Colacrai. This pairing wrote quite a few songs together back at that time, after Cirino had given up trying to make it as a singer himself. Both he & Teddy did get a bit of fame as singers though, with both of them appearing in the 1956 movie 'ROCK, ROCK, ROCK'.

Christine, you must have some stories to tell then ...

Mark B ... why do you think I put that emoji after my comment ... coz I was being sarcastic about it being a suitable venue.

A pic from an earlier event @ the venue (unfortunately, of a pop group on the bill) .... nothing wrong with the place (as a niter venue) as far as I can see ... 😆

The NS scene played soul but also loads of crap pop songs that you could dance to. The MS scene played mainly class items, many having a much higher soul content than lots of NS (even if the backing on some was a tad on the disco side of things). The Disco scene played class tracks like Philly soul but mixed them in with pure shite from the likes of the Village People, Ritchie Family, Garys Gang, Boney M, Gibson Bros, Pet Shop Boys, Madonna.

How the building looks these days + another soul act that played the club back in the day.

A few of the regular UK venues for visiting soul acts back in the late 60's (Up The Junction being one of them) ..... Poor old Percy Sledge had been booked to play two gigs on a December night in 69 ... bet the roads weren't too good (snow, ice, fog or rain) ... AND THE TWO VENUES WERE MILES APART ... Wellington in Shropshire & Retford in Nottinghamshire. No doubt that was a dash across the Pennines to remember.

Also in November 67 ... over in DC ...

The record company people who organised CBS's 1972 convention in London must have been a bit parochial ... seems they initially shipped in (from back in the US) just about all the sound & visual equipment for the event .... but obviously didn't seem to know that US equipment voltages / TV equipment were totally different here so their stuff couldn't be used. I bet there was a whole lot of scrambling about to get the right gear needed before the event kicked off at the Grosvenor House Hotel on Park Lane. The Great Room at the hotel (where the convention was staged) has also been used (down the years) for many of the top UK award ceremonies ... it must have seemed a bit different for the black musicians who got to perform in the room back then.

The Internationals toured the UK in the late 60's but had to perform as 'the International Showstoppers' as they were a 'stand-in' version of the real Showstoppers.

Thought about posting this in the LATE 70's JAZZ FUNK SCENE thread but it also has ties with info in some of posts in Kegsy's ROYALTIES ON 2ND PRESSES thread ... so I decided to start a new thread. Maxine had a strange recording career ... born in Oklahoma, she moved to California where she finished her education. But it was performing that most interested her, so she headed off to Hawaii, the Philippines, Hong Kong (1963), Korea & Japan. Moving back to San Fran, she got some high profile club gigs there & then in LA. She also performed quite a few concerts with her sisters, some of these being quite political events. She hit the ground running with her recording career in 1970, cutting 2 decent albums for Mainstream Records (with members of the Crusaders backing her up instrumentally). Columbia Records liked what they were hearing & so signed her to a contract & started to showcase her to the music press. At the same time, they started cutting her on tracks but nothing emerged on record. She was kept busy on the live front by the label, doing club gigs & industry showcase shows. In fact, they had so much faith in her, that she was brought over to London to perform at CBS's big annual Convention in summer 72. They had her work with Jimmy Bowen (more famous for his stuff with the likes of Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Nancy Sinatra, Kenny Rogers, Glen Campbell, etc). Eventually, a 45 escaped by her on CBS ("Maggie's Farm / Looking For The Answer" Feb 73) but the company only seemed to make promo copies available. Anyway, the 45 didn't take off (but with the A side being a Dylan cover, can't say I'm surprised the cut didn't get much R&B radio airtime). Seems CBS then lost interest in her (after having her on their books for over a year). She next turned up on Monument Records (who signed her in 73), with a 45 escaping in January 74 (her 2nd Monument 45 again featured "Looking For The Answer", her CBS 45 cut) and these were followed by a further 45 ("I Want Sunday Back Again") & 2 albums (released in 74 & 75) ... ... then everything went quiet (on the recording front) before she turned up on a Japanese Atlantic 45 release in 82 doing a vocal to a track which had featured on Jap TV in a Toyota car advert. That was pretty much it, though some later stuff did escape. For me, she cut too many standards / pop song covers and didn't really mine the main soul or jazz funk veins but everyone to their own I guess. She was certainly badly served by CBS, especially having been shown off as a 'star of the future' at their big 72 Convention in London (where incidentally the likes of Earth, Wind & Fire, Ramsey Lewis & Azteca also performed -- would certainly have liked to have been there to witness those shows). ANYWAY, anyone here have a fave from Maxine ??

As I understand it, any monies (radio & club play PPL fees, artist & writers royalties) earned by a record released here by a US artist would just have gone into a big pot used by the UK music authorities UNLESS a specific artist / group had individual UK representation .... so about 80 to 90% of US soul acts would have got nothing at all from UK sales / plays. I could be wrong but think that's how it went back in the 60's .... Of course, if you had a UK pop chart hit, you'd most likely be one of the few lucky ones .... but how many of the acts we love got a UK chart hit, very few indeed. The likes of EMI would hold the rights to all the releases on many US labels (as would Pye, Phillips, etc) but lots of US / UK licensing deals were reciprocal agreements (you get to release our stuff there, if we can release your stuff here), many US acts wouldn't even realise their stuff was being put out in foreign countries.

Same song ...

Have you spotted this item in Record World (Oct 67) ... unfortunately it doesn't ID the cities that Karate Boogaloo was doing well in.

It's from Record Mirror ... a montage of Decca 45 ads from November 67 ...

Had a good time in the company of Rudy Love on Saturday, so thought I'd put this one up ... RudyLoveMSTrack.mp4

Watched some of this episode & it's piece on how the dance scene moved from the UK to Ibiza & then to Vegas ... That is correct & the show states how great the scene was in Vegas ... BUT NO MENTION OF THE FACT THAT ... it was the Casinos who quickly jumped on the dance music bandwagon there. In doing so, many converted their music lounge rooms into discos. The main consequence of that was that performers such as Sonny Charles, Bobby Wade, Lou Ragland and the like lost the venues that used to employ them. Most changes bring good but on the back of that comes a downside. I used to visit Vegas most years but with the live soul shows giving way to 'rave nights', there was no reason for me to go that far anymore.

No doubt Stuart's new book will be another good read ... got his earlier books but haven't gotten round to reading 67 or 68 yet ... ... ... ... a quick question ... a major change in the world of soul occurred between 67 & 70; the demise of the big chitlin circuit theatres (the Royal, the Howard, etc) ... only the Apollo seemed to hang on. With the end of these smaller venues (500 or so), the 7 night engagements for acts ended and they moved to a single night concert in front of an audience of 3000 to 5000 (in venues such as Madison Sq Gardens or Baltimore Civic Centre). The big groups still made decent money as the headliners at these massive venues but the number of shows available for smaller acts just starting out was reduced massively. This led to a big reduction in the opportunities for new acts to break through in many cities. Lots of the acts also started playing more white venues (supper clubs & Atlantic City / Vegas casinos) where (in general) they were treated better (dressing rooms, food, set-up assistance, general conditions). Does Stuart touch on this aspect of the soul scene at all in any of these 3 books ??

I'm sure it won't be of any interest to you but his UK club biggie was released here on London on 3rd Nov 67 ... the same week that Oscar Toney's "Lead Your Woman To The Altar", a Mitch Ryder 45 (also on Stateside), Barbara Randolf's "I Get A Feeling" & Joe Simon's "The Girl's Alright With Me" came out here ...

Loads of info about tracks that Jerry O & Sammy Kaplan had connections to in this piece on the net (though it's in French, so needs translating) ... https://soul-in-groove.eklablog.com/sammy-kaplan-jerry-o-story-a136938294 Loads of conflicting info on him on the web ... for instance ... he was born in January 1931 OR in October 39 ... not much difference there then.

Can't help much, but The Metro St. Louis Live Music Historical Society describe Tom and Jerrio + Jerry-O as the St. Louis' "Boogaloo" Kings.

Whatever you wanna type, I'll still count them as a bootleg outfit.

Lou Ragland is back in a Vegas recording studio once again .... this time though, he's cutting new tracks on Cecil Jenkins ... originally from Norfolk ... ... so you just know he's worked in the past with the likes of Frank Guida and Lenis Guess ... one of Cecil / Sesil's old tracks from those days ...

On DISCOGS it states ... Canadian reissue label known for quasi-legitimate reissue 45s (mastered from existing vinyl records; it occasionally issued singles with odd artist and/or song pairings) .... seems they SOMETIMES got licenses to reissue stuff (old Elvis Presley RCA tracks) but many times put out stuff that it would have been almost impossible to track down the copyright owners ... As some have stated above, I'll also keep viewing many of their soul 45's as bootlegs.

Seems that Al Green has been tempted back into the recording studio. The first track to escape sounds like vintage MEAN AL GREEN to me ... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H5CZVCM?ref=dmm_ocar_PR_algreen_beforethene_91318 Don't bother going to Youtube to watch the so-called promotional video for the track, coz you'll hear exactly zero seconds of it ...