Roburt

So Trevor never even dissed NS at all. However It seems the other blokes & gal did diss it ... who does Keb think he is to say Wigan played loads of pop shite coz the DJ's got lazy ... surely not ...

I beg to differ. ALSO, Trevor Nelson may have said some negative things about a NS venue but I seem to recall him attending one of Ady's Cleggy Weekenders and having a really good time (my memory may be off though).

The knockers will no doubt pile in once again. Why shouldn't Craig Charles interview folk on the scene, he's a soul radio DJ after all. Apart from having Dustbin Stanley on, it was an OK piece of reporting.

There's a great 'back story' behind this guys performances .... but he doesn't do any original; songs ... Judging from another recent thread on here, some may say he's just doing covers of songs which in their original form have really enriched people's lives (mine included). But I believe he demonstrates real soulful content, probably due to the hardships he's endured during that life. To me his efforts do not come across as empty re-imagining of soul classics. The quality he displays mean he's more than a mere cover-merchant; never coming across as cringey or dire. He creates a groove, has guts and is in no way flat, bland, unpassionate in the way he performs his 'covers'. Due to the show he performed on being mainstream peak TV viewing, the song arrangements are lavish. They support his vocals well, allowing him to really interpret the songs he tackles. Many may dismiss his efforts, but I applaud them. The Masqueraders got a huge amount of good publicity from appearing on this show, I hope it can also act as a boost to a future singing career for Archie.

I'd start with "Cut You Loose" if you're into NS ... although the track has a few 'rough edges' & the sound quality on the recording ain't the greatest. One of his earlier efforts ...

Ramot Enterprises were active from 1963 to around 1967 .... Bobby Moore for much longer ...

This is a piece about the music career of Bobby Moore .. BUT not the "Anything Man" guy ... OR EVEN ... The Rhythm Aces leader ... this is about the New Jersey Bobby Moore. Bobby started out in the music biz around 1958 in Newark, NJ. He & his mates formed a group to emulate Little Anthony & the Imperials, their always performed tune being "Tears On My Pillow". By 1960, they had established themselves enough to get a record deal. A 45 credited to the 4 Most escaped on Milo. The 45 did nothing & the group broke up. But Bobby had been noticed & the Fiestas came looking for him & got him to join the group. Booby was on the group's Old Town recordings made in fall 1960. He then sang lead on both sides of their early 61 single released by Strand. 1962 saw Bobby going solo and having "The Ginger Snap" out as 'Little Bobby Moore' on King. 1963 saw his first group's 45 put out on an oldies label and this prompted Bobby to put together a new set of the FourMost and they had a single, "You Got To Live For Yourself", out on Fantasy in 1964. Another solo effort also came out in 64; "I Carefully Checked Your Heart" on Kay=O (this song being a NY office Jobete registered song). In 1965 it was back to the group. "It Was A Lie"" appeared on the D.W. label (with the group's name misspelled as the "Fourmosts"). This 45 was licensed by Red Bird for national distribution in 1966. But Bobby soon went back to cutting solo (1966), but there was a complication. Another guy was enjoying hits as Bobby Moore (with his group the Rhythm Aces), therefore Bobby had to find a new name. So when "I Was Born A Loser"/"My Luck Is About To Change" on the Sue label (#45-144), it was attributed to 'Bobby Lee'. A second Sue 45 followed; "I Missed It By That Much"/"I'm Not Afraid" (#45-145). There was one more Bobby Lee record from 1966: "Cut You Loose" (another of Bobby's compositions), backed with "I'm Just A Man," on the Port label (/#45-3022). During this period and on into the 70's Bobby was also the vocalist with Duke Anderson's band. They participated on a Ramot Productions session that resulted in 2 tracks escaping on the Cloud label (65). Another Ramot production (the teaming behind Bobby's 45's on Sue) saw a 45 attributed to Bobbi & Michi being released b y Josie in 66. Booby Moore aka Bobby Lee stayed in the music biz and even rejoined a set of Fiestas in the 1990's. Bobby passed in 2013.

The 1st Players 45 on a Memphis radio stn chart ... some interesting other 45's also figuring at the time ...

It makes no sense at all that this would be a 1968 release ... It was Minit #32013 ... checking other Minit releases, #32008 (Homer Banks) was released in the US in Sept 66 (reviewed in US music press in mid Sept 66) & in the UK in early Jan 67. #32012 (The Players) released mid Oct 66, reviewed in US press early Nov and made US charts early Dec 66. #32014 (Jimmy Holiday) failed to get to the release stage but was pencilled in for Jan 67. A different Jimmy holiday 45 was quickly scheduled (#32016) and this escaped in Jan 67 (gaining reviews in Feb 67). #32015 (O'Jays) released in mid Jan 67 and was reviewed in US press in mid Feb 67. #32020 (Homer Banks) was a Feb 67 US release + April 67 UK release. So whoever assigned a 68 release date to the Shawn Robinson 45 was clearly wrong. Minit 45's #32030, 31, 32 & 33 were all 1967 releases with #33 gaining press reviews just before Xmas 67. So Shawn's 45 would have been numbered after #32033 if it were a 68 release. Minit was part of Liberty Records and so not the sort of label to have made a major numbering mistake.

LOL

Folk who opposed this concert really seem to be obtuse just for the sake of it. I said I didn't attend during the Wigan era ... to anyone with any grasp on reality, to me that indicates I attended on a regular basis before & after the Wigan era. So I guess I must know that the scene didn't start & finish with Wigan. Last post from me on this thread as it's beginning to disappear up it's own ass ... Those that appreciated the BBC concert will continue to do so & will look forward to it being screened on BBC2. Those who oppose that view will no doubt continue to fume at our opinion.

RE: many of us just didn't find the BBC representation of 'Northern Soul' either soulful or tasteful. Or, in fact, anything to do with Northern Soul (except in the song titles and advertising slogans). I think many on here must have selective memories ... I went away from niters the entire period that Wigan was ruling the waves ... when I returned to the fold, I couldn't believe how much ABSOLUTE POP SHITE was now being called NORTHERN SOUL.

With Gregory Carroll being a long time member of the Orioles & then other NY area groups through to the mid 60's, it is highly likely that he got to know / did shows with Earl Carroll of the Cadillacs. Gregory Carroll had started life as JOHN Carroll (no idea why he changed his name) and his 1st group -- the Four Buddies -- were from the same area of Baltimore as Sonny Til & the other original Orioles. John / Gregory's older brother, was also in a local group, the Four Buds. So the Carroll family were well connected in Balto R&B circles. Gregory / John's group (4 Buddies) recorded a load for Savoy between 1950 and 1955 and had some hits. But Gregory was soon to become an Oriole. The Cadillacs were from New Jersey and when the group split into 2 rival groups in 1957, Earl Carroll led one version with J R Bailey being in the other one. It seems that the Balto' Carrolls and the Cadillacs Earl Carroll weren't related but they must have known each other. Even more so after Earl left the Cadillacs in 61 to join the Coasters -- as already stated, Gregory Carroll worked with the Coasters (in 64 on "Wild One" & other tracks). Gregory Carroll had started life as John Carroll, J R Bailey took on numerous different names (for recording purposes), so there's no reason why a long time group member (Earl Carroll) wouldn't try a solo recording and put it out under a different name ... but as you say, that's speculation. One thing against it though ... Earl Jackson is the name he used to register his songs & that still seems to be the name used. Lots of guys used alternate names, but down the years they have linked their 'false names' to their real name to ensure their composer's royalties due continue to roll in. There is no other name linked to Earl Jackson on the BMI site.

Earl also wrote with Ralph Bass and Morton Craft, both New York based. Gregory Carroll has 226 songs registered with BMI; so he must have cut hundreds of composers demo tracks -- singing himself or using guy / gal pals to handle the vocals for him.

Although his ABC 45 has been a big record for over 50 years, little is known of Earl. I made mention of him in the current BBC Proms thread ... ... I chatted with Johnny Pate for ages and then it came to me that I knew nothing about Earl Jackson (Johnny P co-wrote "Soul Self Satisfaction" and ran the studio session). The 45 was released in October 68, so the track was most probably cut in August / September that year. Pate's main focus at the time was the Impressions and similar groups (the Mighty Marvelows, etc.) but he didn't seem to be super busy at that time. I asked him about Earl & his recording session and the songs he cut. Johnny couldn't remember anything at all about the guy, the song or the session. He stated I just used to go into the studio from 9 to 5 everyday and work, do whatever was called for each day. It was just my job. So, even the guy who masterminded the track remembers nothing at all about it or about Earl. So further digging seemed appropriate. His recording session took place in Chicago but that doesn't mean he was from that area. Johnny Pate was the 'go-to' guy at ABC if you were cutting soul tracks from the mid to late 60's. So singers would be signed to ABC in (say) New York or LA but be sent to cut in Chicago. So, Chicago may not be significant when it comes to Earl. I first visited BMI to check what they had on him (see below) ..... He wrote 20 registered songs, mostly in conjunction with Gregory Carroll. Gregory Carroll had been in the music biz for years, so that link seemed more promising. Greg was from Baltimore and had started out as a member of Sonny Til's Orioles. But when work started drying up for the group (1955), Gregory moved on and got into studio / behind the scenes work. He couldn't stay away from the mic though and started a new group in 56 -- the Dappers. They didn't do too well and so he continued his other works. Next came Greg & Peg (with Peggy Jones aka Lady Bo). He had a solo 45 out in 1960 & then started a group with Doc Wheeler and Doris Troy. He then worked with Doris Troy and the pair wrote "Just One Look". He produced the song on Doris & it became a massive hit. Based in New York, he followed that with sessions on the likes of the Coasters, the Essex, Big Joe Turner, Ashford & Simpson, Anna Craig ("The Life Of The Party"), JoAnn Courcy ("I Got The Power"), The vibrations, Lou Christie and more. He also got back in front of the mic himself again; in conjunction with J R Bailey he started the Previews (Veep; 1965). So Gregory Carrol, with whom Earl worked on at least nine songs, was New York based and worked with lots of NY soul scene folk (Henry Glover, etc.). So it's quite safe to assume Earl was NY based while working with Gregory. So did Earl work in the studio with Gregory Carroll. If he did, either the tracks weren't released or they were put out under a different name. Is there anyone on here who has researched Gregory Carroll and his studio / song writing work in the mid to late 60's. In 1968 Gregory, in conjunction with J R Bailey, was laying down tracks like "I've Got My Lovelight Shining" on cuts released as by Chuck Wood. So it seems his song writing with Earl had ended by then (the successful songs the pairing wrote came out in 63,64,66). Anyone have knowledge of who Gregory Carroll got to sing the demo versions of his songs -- Gregory himself or someone like Earl. Knowing more about Gregory's way of working on his demo cuts MAY help to shed more light on the mystery of Earl Jackson.

QUOTE FROM ABOVE >> Someone here, I don’t recall whom, suggested members of such a celebrated body as the BBC concert orchestra were nothing more than factory workers going about their daily, mundane duties. No soul, no interest. Just journeymen. That’s rubbish. You don’t get to participate in that orchestra unless you are excellent, top quality - and you have both a comprehensive understanding of the music and a deep appreciation of how it needs to be played. They understood, and did it with fabulous gusto! HOW TRUE. Many years ago, I got to spend a day with Johnny Pate. Johnny was a brilliant song writer, a great arranger, a fine orchestra conductor / leader & a dazzling producer. He worked alongside Curtis Mayfield & the like in the top Chicago studio for many years & he wouldn't have been able to do that unless he was really well respected. We chatted for ages and then it came to me that I knew nothing about Earl Jackson (Johnny P co-wrote "Soul Self Satisfaction" and ran the studio session). The 45 was released in October 68, so the track was most probably cut in August / September that year. Pate's main focus at the time was the Impressions and similar groups (the Mighty Marvelows, etc.) but he didn't seem to be super busy at that time. I asked him about Earl & his recording session and the songs he cut. Johnny couldn't remember anything at all about the guy, the song or the session. He stated I just used to go into the studio from 9 to 5 everyday and work, do whatever was called for each day. It was just my job. Even with that answer, I doubt anyone here would accuse him of being nothing more than factory worker.

Amsterdam Russ; you're correct.

The songs included in the BBC concert were a very good selection IMHO. Of course, we could all have dropped a few & added others in BUT THEN we weren't asked to compile the selection. With regard to the 'free T-shirts handed out' comment ... NOT SO, the folk being filmed in those clips are the BRISTOL N SOUL POSSE (or whatever they term themselves). They're a well informed team & certainly seemed to enjoy the concert to the full.

I've been corresponding with Philly legend Earl Young a lot recently (he was just cruising around the Med as an 83rd birthday celebration). I informed him that "Hold Back The Night" was included in the concert and he was delighted. I forwarded bits about the concert to him & he was really intrigued & sad he couldn't attend. I'm hoping someone posts a clip of that part of the concert on youtube, so he can watch it (US residents can't utilise BBC iPlayer). I think the fact that Earl's group's hit dated from 1975 & yet Earl is already 83 years old might be a bit of a clue why no original artists were involved. I did forward this clip to him ... a few folk at the concert ...

As a guy who attended many niters & witnessed many OAO (Original Artists Only) performing their latest + older recordings .. AND ALL BEFORE (the term) NS was even invented ... I can truthfully state that ... ... I hardly ever saw a singer who performed his songs in a way that was faithful to their original recording. Apart from the fact that the UK musicians backing them up were nothing like (in expertise & type / variety of instruments played) the original studio band, songs were always 'speeded up' to intensify the vibe & energy of the live performance. It's only with the likes of Ady coming into the picture that acts were asked to try their very best to recreate the sound captured on the original track as committed to vinyl all those years before. So in 66/67/68/69/ etc. you almost never got to witness a track being performed in a way that was faithful to the original recording. So to say the BBC's efforts were 'fake' is to totally miss the point.

If folk keep saying they enjoyed this concert, then there's only one remedy ... Oulu will be sent round to their abode ..

As I live outside Oxford, I'll probably go to see this. Has it been performed anywhere yet & if so, what were the reviews like ?

Some great clips of people enjoying themselves at the event have been posted up on Facebook. Those in attendance certainly seemed to have gotten swept up in the joy of the occasion. www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=search&v=1028987714685544&external_log_id=34215e52-24ed-4784-8e26-16b242e9171c&q=bbc%20northern%20soul%20prom To paraphrase an earlier post on this thread though ... It really has baffled me how we can rave about the pop pap played at the Casino, it has even less soul than my big toe .... ... Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Attending events on the 'rare soul scene' was always a 'phase' in each punters life. My heyday was 1966 to 1970, most folk on here came after me. But by the time the Casino came around, I had a family to think about & so skipping off to nighters 100's of miles away was never on the cards. I always loved my soul, I just followed a more mainstream path. Chasing copies of 45's on Curtom, Philly Int, Hi, Dakar, Invictus, TK and the turned-on majors but not ignoring the likes of KoKo, LoLo, Gemingo, Bashie, Maurci, etc. I'd listen with interest to the NS radio shows but could never really 'buy in' to the 100mph stompers & pop crap that would be aired amongst the pure soul sides spun. But progressive venues started to play more modern / diverse stuff and so my interest was recaptured. Casino goers would come round & plunder my collection and the odd one would even invite me along to enjoy a night at a localish current event (no nighters though). Then a decent nighter started up that was quite local (Rotherham) & it got some plugs from the soul DJ on the local radio stn (Hallam). The kids were now growing up, so I started attending & really enjoyed myself. So I had been brought back into the fold but (of Course) was now much older. So when weekenders started to be organised, that was ideal for me. Dancing at 3.10am, in a warm comfy bed at 3.20am (after my enegry levels hit the buffers). What an ideal situation & with live acts thrown in as well (just like in my old days @ the Mojo, Nite Owl, Wheel). I was even told I should go on NS cruises, but even though we 'cruise' every year, that always seemed a bit too 'over the top' to drag the wife along on. So, as we age, lots of us have entered, left & returned to the 'scene'. The scene itself has evolved. For some that's a bummer ("I only go to oldies events") but for me it's a plus point. I'm even too old now for weekenders (being mid 70's) BUT will still turn out for the right event if it ain't too far away. Heck, the scene has even evolved to taking 100's of Brits to visit the cities the 60's / 70's soul stars live in rather than bringing a bunch of 4/5 US singers to entertain 100's of punters at a do over here. So, the scene / scenes have always evolved -- some hate progress, but it can't be stopped. If 'themed' events in posh London music venues or organised by a main stream hotel chain, bring lovers of our music back. then (I say) more power to those events.