Roburt

Dave makes mention of Tony & Tyrone's close friendship with Carolyn & Aretha Franklin, but he didn't extend that to include the 3rd sister -- Erma. Erma had lost her Epic record deal in 63 & wouldn't sign with Shout (where she had big hits) till 67, so her career must have been at a bit of a low point in the mid 60's, albeit that she was still a singing sister of the future 'Queen Of Soul'. In 65, Aretha was still signed to Columbia and had a top 20 R&B hit with "One Step Away" (which was coupled with "I Can't Wait Until I See My Baby's Face" on the 45). So Erma must have landed these booking partly coz Aretha was 'back in fashion' & on the charts. Seems Erma was also a friend to Tony & Tyrone as she took them on a tour down the US east coast with her in 1965 ... see attached Baltimore club ad from August 65 ...

In the early years, there was a Hammond organ (seemingly abandoned) in the backstage area. It was discussed that it should be acquired but those old things are very heavy, so it was not touched. No idea when it did go & who got it.

Seems someone's lost their ID from last year ...

Back to Nina Simone again ... and her old backing singer ... well Doris has a reissue out here ...

Anuda memory jerker ...

Went to everyone up to Ady handing over too ... have so many great memories ... Dougie letting me help him at all the sound checks, spending time with the artists, going to the 'Smallest Pub in the UK' (just down the road) ... early events - Sunday night chalet parties, later events -- Saturday afternoon caravan piss-ups / bolox talkin. Finding bargains on the Friday afternoon at the record bar. Selling some of them on just a few hours later -- got quite a few copies of the Bobby McClure Island 45 for 20p each out of a 60's stall cheap box & sold (all but one) on for a quid each to mates just 5 hours later. Fighting over copies of import 45's brought around to our dive (missed out on the great Icemen slowie "How Can I Get Over A Fox Like You" which Charlie get coz his money was out the quickest ... looking on in amazement as Tall Pimple asked "wot you all doing fightin over that, you can't dance to it"). Meeting up with the Macce lads every year -- remembering not to drink with them, otherwise a whole days events would be 'lost in the twilight zone' ... Got 1000's of photos around here (both prints from the early days & digital uns from after).

Got confirmation from one of the Motown studio team of what I am on about above. He confirms that the Motown musician rate (in the 60's) per guy was JUST $25 per session. A session usually ran for 6 hours, so that worked out at around $4 per hour. The US musicians union got involved & the rate was forced up to $125 per session eventually. The norm after Motown (& Golden World) went 'union', was $60 for a 3-hour session -- with a 4 song limit for masters and 6 song for demo versions. Wonder what the Motown band members got paid for playing on Motown Review shows .... these were staged (in the 60's) @ chilin circuit theatres (Howard in DC, Fox in Detroit, Royal in Baltimore, Uptown in Philly, Apollo in NY, etc) and a weeks engagement ran to 17 separate shows -- 2 each night Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs with 3 on Frid / Sat /Sun. So 17 shows over a 7 day period (the usual stunt length at one of those theatres) would probably have earnt each musician around $200 I guess. The guys involved thru the 60's were under the leadership of (a different times) Popcorn Wylie, EVD, Choker Campbell & Hamilton Bohannon.

From memory a typical studio musicians pay rate back in the late 60's / early 70's was around $10 to 15 / hour -- and lots of studios / producers tried to pay less than 'union rate'. Today, things have moved on but not by that much. A typical studio musician (not a 'name' session player) will get around $25 per hour or $50 per completed song. Backing singers getting around the same rate. Using those figures, I'd guess that the Getto Kitty session ran for quite a while. I assume Weldon's band was around the same strength as when he backed up Nina Simone, lets go for a 5 strong musician team. Guess those guys did the backing vocals themselves (sounds that way on the 45), then no extra backing singers. But, to be safe, lets assume 2 backing singers. So a 7 strong team + Getto Kitty herself (who wouldn't be paid as it was her session and she was being charged with everything (studio hire, musician . backing singer hire, arranger & producer (both Weldon himself). That would make (in my guess) the assembled teams hourly cost around $1000 an hour all in. So that would mean a session length of over 4 hours in all. Experienced musicians would practise the songs ahead of actually going into the studio, so could lay down a full track in around 30 minutes (for a 3 minute + cut). Assuming all the above (& it's a big leap), then they could have cut around 6 to 8 tracks in all.

WPDQ were tipping a Jonathan King 45 in late 72, no accounting for taste I guess. They were still pop in 74 as were spinning a James Taylor track. Still pop / rock in early / mid 75 as they were playing tracks by Kraftwerk & UK rockers Yes. They switched formats in summer 75. By 1976 / 77 / 78 / 79, they'd seen the writing on the wall and were then tipping 45's by the likes of the Dramatics, Ashford & Simpson, David Oliver & Platypus. The Billboard report (below) seems to be wrong as WPDQ was still going strong in the late 70's & 80's. By 85 it seems they were well established as a R&B stn and getting a 45 played by them was influencing other similar stns to playlist them also (so the stn seemed to be a trendsetter).

I made mention of Donald's connection with Doris Willingham in 1966 (for the Hi-Monty 45). Is anything known about the Hi-Monty label (who owned it, etc.) ?? Is the Doris W 45 the only one on the label ?

WPDQ .... it was more usually a pop stn but went R&B by the 80's ... they did play lots of soul in the 70's though ...

I'll start with the Fat Larry Band's track. Yes, it would have been a Philly radio hit initially. Years later, I was taken around lots of Vegas music rooms by Lou Ragland to meet the acts performing live. One act I hit it off with was a 4 / 5 strong group in a small casino next to New York, New York (<< where the Motown Cafe was based back then). Can't remember the name of the group but they were good live (have a video of them here somewhere & they have been mentioned on here before). Anyway, being a Brit I asked if they'd recorded as that was how their name would become known outside of Vegas. They said NO, coz you always get ripped off when recording. Then their singer chipped in ... "I was the lead vocalist on "Centre City" he said but didn't stay with Fay Larry coz of a dispute ... STRANGE OLD WORLD.

From my above posting, I'd add a comment. . . $4000 for working on the Getto Kitty session seems a lot, even if Weldon was paid the whole sum to cover both him & his band members playing on the session, him arranging & producing it too. $4000 would seem to me to cover a long studio session -- much longer than would be needed to just cut 2 tracks. Weldon & his guys were accomplished live / studio guys & experienced in studio work. So they would have come prepared & would have glided through each track quite quickly (IMO). Now Getto Kitty was probably in the studio for the 1st time, so might have had nerves, maybe not being a great singer anyway -- so maybe she needed 4 / 5 attempts at each song to get a usable take. My GUESS would be though that more than 2 tracks were laid down at the session & that Andy Stroud would have been provided with a master tape containing 4 (or more) finished cuts. What would have happened to that master tape after 72/73 is anyone's guess.

Got the WHAT & WINN ones ... have to check if I have the WWRL one. I love old US black radio stn charts ... so many obscure 45 tracks on many of them back in the 60's. ... The top 60's DJ on Philly based WHAT passed away just over 4 months ago ...

Coz Weldon Irvine was a famous jazz keyboard player & coz he'd written "Young, Gifted & Black" for Nina, they've made a documentary about him. This goes into all aspects of his life (which it seems was quite tragic) and the show uses lots of old clips & old paperwork ... this seems pretty conclusive to me ... Weldon's earnings in 1972 ... It IMPLIES (to me at least) that Getto Kitty was (MAYBE) a singer who Andy Stroud signed to STROUD and who Weldon & his band were paid $4000 to work with. Musicians were always paid for their studio work (playing, arranging, producing) even if the artist themselves was often not. So it seems Weldon (& his guys) were paid $4000 to play on the Getto Kitty session. The $1100 from 'Nina Simone' was probably royalties for past songwriting / performance duties paid out on Nina's RCA tracks that were still selling.

I don't believe so as Weldon Irvine seems to have broken with Stroud in / by 1972. The Stroud 45 was probably cut sometime in 1972 (or maybe in 71) & released at the start of 73. In 1970, Nina had left Andy Stroud & headed off to live in Barbados. She owed US taxes & was very unpopular in the US due to her Civil Rights statements / work. So Stroud's supply of money must have dried up (he was her manager / booker too). He'd got the recording deal for some acts with RCA and that must have brought enough money in to keep his recording sessions going. The Stroud label put out 2 x 45's + LP's on Nina in 72/73 but they must have been much earlier recordings (69 / 70 ?). She also had an LP out on RCA in 71 but Andy Stroud had nothing to do with that at all. Seems Stroud must have been trying to carry on with the remnants of Nina's entourage (except Sam Waymon, Nina's brother). Sam Waymon sang with Nina on some shows but he'd gone off with her, so can't have been a vocalist with Getto Kitty. The Ninandy label was shut down & Stroud started up, well she was no longer involved so the NINA / ANDY name was redundant. The Swordsmen stayed with Andy Stroud & I guess Weldon Irvine & his band did too. But Weldon Irvine & his group were releasing stuff on his own label in 72. So he'd obviously walked away from Stroud by then. His LP ('Liberated Brother') was laid down at a NY studio but the band line-up changes on some of the tracks. Perhaps that's coz of the changes that came about when he broke with Andy Stroud. Weldon had a 2nd LP out on his own label in 73 and sax Player James Stroud isn't on that (though Weldon thanks him for his past work on the sleeve notes). Two pictures; Nina & Andy together in the late 60's ... then Nina on stage with her quartet in 69 (I'm assuming the quartet are Weldon Irvine & his band) ...

I think it's almost certain that the Getto Kitty tracks were cut in late 1972, the song registered (copyrighted) at the very end of December 72 but the records pressed up in early January 73. Promo copies being sent out by Stroud in mid January & the 45 starting to get radio tips by early February 73. BACK TO PROBABLE INFO ON THE GROUP .... A show on Nina Simone's March 69 UK tour was reviewed by Melody Maker. See the attached (seems the reviewer misheard the backing singers name & noted her down as Doris Williams not WILLINGHAM). The advance notice info on the tour package refers to NINA, her quartet & trio ... I'd guess the quartet were the 4 musicians listed already above & that the trio were the backing singers (obviously 3 were expected ahead of their UK arrival but just 2 seemed to have come). With her show being 2 hours duration, I'd say the musicians would have opened (doing a couple of jazzy instrumental numbers), then the backing singers would have come on stage for a couple more songs (vocals this time) and then finally Nina would have come out -- probably sitting at & playing a piano.

Doris Willingham / Duke must only have stayed with Nina for around 9 months (Jan to Sept 69 ?), as by early 70 she was signed to Canyon & recording as Doris Duke. No doubt old B&S interviews with Doris (Duke) will have touched on the details of her UK gigs in 69 (as a backing singer for Nina). Mine are up in the loft, but guess someone else's will be available to check. It's a pity Nina / Andy didn't think to sign Doris to a Ninandy contract (but then, I guess, we wouldn't have gotten the great Doris Duke Canyon stuff from 1970 onwards).

Just checked & I have David Nathan's book on Nina. Nina had a UK hit in Oct 68 & came to the UK to do promotional work & to appear on T of the Pops. During that visit she met fans @ Soul City Record shop in London. She had 2 more UK pop chart hits in early 69 and so returned here to do a full tour (many UK venues). Weldon Irvine gets mentioned many times in the book. In 1969, Nina was touring the UK & so did lots of shows here. David Nathan reports on a London show & states ... Nina was aided by 4 most capable musicians; Weldon (Irvine -- organ), Gene (Perla -- on bass), Don (Alias -- on drums) & Al (Schackman - on guitar). None of the other 3 guys were still in Weldon's group in 72. BUT ALSO, she had Gena & Doris (Willingham) on backing vocals. But DORIS WILLINGHAM (DORIS DUKE) couldn't have been the singer on the Getto Kitty tracks as she'd left Nina by then (see below). But for certain, Doris toured the UK as a backing singer for Nina in 69. PERHAPS it was GENA (?) who was the singer on the cuts. Doris Willingham had her solo (Jay Boy) 45 released in the US in late Nov / early Dec 68. The 45 was doing well by early Dec on WWIN in Baltimore. She then hooked up with Nina in 69 BUT BY 1970, she was solo again as Doris Duke & recording for Canyon by Feb 70. On Nina's recording sessions at the end of the 60's, she used the Swordsmen as her backing singers. They also accompanied her on UK tours and opened the show before singing backing vocals when she performed. Her daughter Lisa & brother Sam Wymon sang back-up on other of her recording sessions. One of the Swordmens 45s (Oh, My Soul") was getting radio plays (& charting in Nov 68). It was getting spins on WWRL (NY), WEBB (Baltimore) & WENZ (Richmond). By early Dec it was @ #6 on WCHB's chart (Detroit) & ' #12 on WJMO (Cleveland).

Q 1969 New York club shows ... Nina & friends ... I guess the heading NINA SIMONE & COMPANY means NS + the Weldon Irvine Band. BTW, Montego Joe had been her drummer in the early / mid 60's.

The Telegraph did an article on their (Nina & Andy) relationship ... it's still up online ... www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/how-nina-simone-fell-in-love-with-her-abusive-husband/ EXTRACT ... Stroud could often be found at a Harlem bar called the Lenox Lounge, where he was friendly with the manager and his wife, a sometime nightclub entertainer named Becky Harding. One night while Stroud was drinking at the Lenox, Harding told him that she had just seen a fantastic singer named Nina Simone at a midtown supper club called the Round Table and that she was going to go back and he should join her. Stroud drove them down to the venue. Harding had introduced herself to the singer on her first visit, so after her set Simone came to their table to say hello. Stroud was eating a hamburger next to Harding. Simone playfully snatched up some of his French fries and, as he said later, “We got cute and whatnot.” Stroud was driving his friends home, so following her final set Simone joined them and they headed up to Harlem. She hung out for a few drinks at the Lenox Lounge, and then he dropped her off at her Central Park West apartment, just a few blocks from his police station. Before getting out of the car, she handed him the Round Table business card, which had a note on the back saying, “Nice to have met you—Nina,” and her phone number. The whole story & much more about her career & Stroud Productions are in her autobiography. Don't think Getto Kitty gets a mention but Weldon Irvine certainly will have.

Stroud & Ninandy were owned / run by Nina Simone & her then husband Andy Stroud. He also titled his work as STROUD PRODUCTIONS (based out of 507 5th Ave, New York). Andy Stroud was a musical kid who went into the Us Navy as a trumpeter in a navy band. He was stationed in Florida, He left the forces in 1946 & moved to New York. There he played in bands & was on an album recorded at the Apollo Theatre. He then joined the NY Police in 1948 & stayed there till 1961. In 61, he met & married Nina and quit the police to become her manager. Although he was abusive towards her they stayed together till 71. In late 1967, the Ninandy label was started & released stuff by Montego Joe, the Cashmeres, Roy Roberts, Sam Waymon & the Swordsmen. The Stroud label followed on. putting out mainly releases by Nina herself. Andy Stroud & Nina were divorced by the time the Stroud label started. Nina was the star that attracted acts to sign with Stroud / Ninandy -- she would take the acts signed to her labels on tour with her & have them as her support act on shows. Lots of shows in New York she did featured the acts as her support on the bill. She moved in NY jazz circles & that's probably why the like of Montego Joe link came about. The Roy Roberts 45 seems to have been an outside production & had been released on a local Nth Carolina label first (Bo-Ro). Sam Waymon was also from Nth Carolina, so there was obviously a connection with that area (+ Nina's real name was Eunice Waymon, so they were related). After 1 x 45 on Ninandy, his contract was picked up by RCA (though Stroud still produced his stuff). The Swordsmen were a duo from Cleveland. Strangely they weren't known under that name back in Cleveland but were known in the local clubs where both guys performed as solo acts. Seems Nina met up with them while doing shows in the Cleveland area. Perhaps Stroud put them together ( in a Sam & Dave kind of way) & signed them as a duo. Their contract was also picked up by RCA after 1 x 45 on Ninandy. They were active as a duo under that name from 68 to 71. Getto Kitty seems TO ME to be the name taken at the time by Weldon Irvine & his group (a member of which was a certain James Stroud). Weldon was Nina Simone's band leader at the time, so it only seems natural that the band would cut for Stroud Records. By 1972, he was cutting tracks (still with his band) under his own name ('Liberated Brother' for NOBLEW RECORDS -- thats WELDON backwards). He'd set up his own Noblew productions as early as 1968 but mainly worked with Nina till 72. So YES, they were session musicians who did studio work backing up other acts (I'd guess the likes of Sonny Til for RCA in 71. Also Percy Mayfield in 71, also for RCA). But they were mainly Nina Simone's touring band. Guess they were rewarded for their efforts with the Stroud 45. I'd GUESS, that they were the studio band on most of the Ninandy & Stroud recorded tracks. Weldon Irvine had a 2nd LP out on his own label in 73 and then signed a deal with RCA. I guess the Nina Simone & the RCA links make it highly likely that his band were in fact Getto Kitty. Weldon arranged their tracks & wrote the song. Sounds like the whole band singing on the chorus but no idea who the lead singer could be. Nina herself was signed to RCA between 1967 & 1974 ... so all the pieces seem to fall into place. Seem to recall posting up an ad for NY shows Nina Simone undertook around 1970 on which one of the Ninandy artists was the supporting act. Obviously (though not advertised in their own right) Weldon & his band would have backed up both acts on the shows.

Thanks for the very informative posts GF. It's interesting that Ed Wingate was running a numbers racket -- probably using his record label offices / studio as a front. The very same thing went on in Cleveland -- Way Out Records there came about the closest to becoming the established label from the city & their studio was really more of a front for 'number runners' than for recording acts. Way Out's owners kept their studio very busy -- they recorded around 10 tracks for every one that got released. The constant flow of singers, groups, musicians, pluggers in & out of the studio / office building helped 'hide' the many numbers runners also coming in & out.

Another Detroit stn ... a 1979 chart ... & a vid to go with it ... www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sn5XzMF2qA

Two more radio charts; one from 62, one from 72 ... Mary Wells, Barbara Lynn, Billy Stewart, Jerry Butler, Jive Five & more on the 62 chart ... Mel & Tim, Jerry Butler (again), J R Bailey, Millie Jackson, Tommy Tate & more on the 72 chart.