Roburt

It makes no sense at all that this would be a 1968 release ... It was Minit #32013 ... checking other Minit releases, #32008 (Homer Banks) was released in the US in Sept 66 (reviewed in US music press in mid Sept 66) & in the UK in early Jan 67. #32012 (The Players) released mid Oct 66, reviewed in US press early Nov and made US charts early Dec 66. #32014 (Jimmy Holiday) failed to get to the release stage but was pencilled in for Jan 67. A different Jimmy holiday 45 was quickly scheduled (#32016) and this escaped in Jan 67 (gaining reviews in Feb 67). #32015 (O'Jays) released in mid Jan 67 and was reviewed in US press in mid Feb 67. #32020 (Homer Banks) was a Feb 67 US release + April 67 UK release. So whoever assigned a 68 release date to the Shawn Robinson 45 was clearly wrong. Minit 45's #32030, 31, 32 & 33 were all 1967 releases with #33 gaining press reviews just before Xmas 67. So Shawn's 45 would have been numbered after #32033 if it were a 68 release. Minit was part of Liberty Records and so not the sort of label to have made a major numbering mistake.

LOL

Folk who opposed this concert really seem to be obtuse just for the sake of it. I said I didn't attend during the Wigan era ... to anyone with any grasp on reality, to me that indicates I attended on a regular basis before & after the Wigan era. So I guess I must know that the scene didn't start & finish with Wigan. Last post from me on this thread as it's beginning to disappear up it's own ass ... Those that appreciated the BBC concert will continue to do so & will look forward to it being screened on BBC2. Those who oppose that view will no doubt continue to fume at our opinion.

RE: many of us just didn't find the BBC representation of 'Northern Soul' either soulful or tasteful. Or, in fact, anything to do with Northern Soul (except in the song titles and advertising slogans). I think many on here must have selective memories ... I went away from niters the entire period that Wigan was ruling the waves ... when I returned to the fold, I couldn't believe how much ABSOLUTE POP SHITE was now being called NORTHERN SOUL.

With Gregory Carroll being a long time member of the Orioles & then other NY area groups through to the mid 60's, it is highly likely that he got to know / did shows with Earl Carroll of the Cadillacs. Gregory Carroll had started life as JOHN Carroll (no idea why he changed his name) and his 1st group -- the Four Buddies -- were from the same area of Baltimore as Sonny Til & the other original Orioles. John / Gregory's older brother, was also in a local group, the Four Buds. So the Carroll family were well connected in Balto R&B circles. Gregory / John's group (4 Buddies) recorded a load for Savoy between 1950 and 1955 and had some hits. But Gregory was soon to become an Oriole. The Cadillacs were from New Jersey and when the group split into 2 rival groups in 1957, Earl Carroll led one version with J R Bailey being in the other one. It seems that the Balto' Carrolls and the Cadillacs Earl Carroll weren't related but they must have known each other. Even more so after Earl left the Cadillacs in 61 to join the Coasters -- as already stated, Gregory Carroll worked with the Coasters (in 64 on "Wild One" & other tracks). Gregory Carroll had started life as John Carroll, J R Bailey took on numerous different names (for recording purposes), so there's no reason why a long time group member (Earl Carroll) wouldn't try a solo recording and put it out under a different name ... but as you say, that's speculation. One thing against it though ... Earl Jackson is the name he used to register his songs & that still seems to be the name used. Lots of guys used alternate names, but down the years they have linked their 'false names' to their real name to ensure their composer's royalties due continue to roll in. There is no other name linked to Earl Jackson on the BMI site.

Earl also wrote with Ralph Bass and Morton Craft, both New York based. Gregory Carroll has 226 songs registered with BMI; so he must have cut hundreds of composers demo tracks -- singing himself or using guy / gal pals to handle the vocals for him.

Although his ABC 45 has been a big record for over 50 years, little is known of Earl. I made mention of him in the current BBC Proms thread ... ... I chatted with Johnny Pate for ages and then it came to me that I knew nothing about Earl Jackson (Johnny P co-wrote "Soul Self Satisfaction" and ran the studio session). The 45 was released in October 68, so the track was most probably cut in August / September that year. Pate's main focus at the time was the Impressions and similar groups (the Mighty Marvelows, etc.) but he didn't seem to be super busy at that time. I asked him about Earl & his recording session and the songs he cut. Johnny couldn't remember anything at all about the guy, the song or the session. He stated I just used to go into the studio from 9 to 5 everyday and work, do whatever was called for each day. It was just my job. So, even the guy who masterminded the track remembers nothing at all about it or about Earl. So further digging seemed appropriate. His recording session took place in Chicago but that doesn't mean he was from that area. Johnny Pate was the 'go-to' guy at ABC if you were cutting soul tracks from the mid to late 60's. So singers would be signed to ABC in (say) New York or LA but be sent to cut in Chicago. So, Chicago may not be significant when it comes to Earl. I first visited BMI to check what they had on him (see below) ..... He wrote 20 registered songs, mostly in conjunction with Gregory Carroll. Gregory Carroll had been in the music biz for years, so that link seemed more promising. Greg was from Baltimore and had started out as a member of Sonny Til's Orioles. But when work started drying up for the group (1955), Gregory moved on and got into studio / behind the scenes work. He couldn't stay away from the mic though and started a new group in 56 -- the Dappers. They didn't do too well and so he continued his other works. Next came Greg & Peg (with Peggy Jones aka Lady Bo). He had a solo 45 out in 1960 & then started a group with Doc Wheeler and Doris Troy. He then worked with Doris Troy and the pair wrote "Just One Look". He produced the song on Doris & it became a massive hit. Based in New York, he followed that with sessions on the likes of the Coasters, the Essex, Big Joe Turner, Ashford & Simpson, Anna Craig ("The Life Of The Party"), JoAnn Courcy ("I Got The Power"), The vibrations, Lou Christie and more. He also got back in front of the mic himself again; in conjunction with J R Bailey he started the Previews (Veep; 1965). So Gregory Carrol, with whom Earl worked on at least nine songs, was New York based and worked with lots of NY soul scene folk (Henry Glover, etc.). So it's quite safe to assume Earl was NY based while working with Gregory. So did Earl work in the studio with Gregory Carroll. If he did, either the tracks weren't released or they were put out under a different name. Is there anyone on here who has researched Gregory Carroll and his studio / song writing work in the mid to late 60's. In 1968 Gregory, in conjunction with J R Bailey, was laying down tracks like "I've Got My Lovelight Shining" on cuts released as by Chuck Wood. So it seems his song writing with Earl had ended by then (the successful songs the pairing wrote came out in 63,64,66). Anyone have knowledge of who Gregory Carroll got to sing the demo versions of his songs -- Gregory himself or someone like Earl. Knowing more about Gregory's way of working on his demo cuts MAY help to shed more light on the mystery of Earl Jackson.

QUOTE FROM ABOVE >> Someone here, I don’t recall whom, suggested members of such a celebrated body as the BBC concert orchestra were nothing more than factory workers going about their daily, mundane duties. No soul, no interest. Just journeymen. That’s rubbish. You don’t get to participate in that orchestra unless you are excellent, top quality - and you have both a comprehensive understanding of the music and a deep appreciation of how it needs to be played. They understood, and did it with fabulous gusto! HOW TRUE. Many years ago, I got to spend a day with Johnny Pate. Johnny was a brilliant song writer, a great arranger, a fine orchestra conductor / leader & a dazzling producer. He worked alongside Curtis Mayfield & the like in the top Chicago studio for many years & he wouldn't have been able to do that unless he was really well respected. We chatted for ages and then it came to me that I knew nothing about Earl Jackson (Johnny P co-wrote "Soul Self Satisfaction" and ran the studio session). The 45 was released in October 68, so the track was most probably cut in August / September that year. Pate's main focus at the time was the Impressions and similar groups (the Mighty Marvelows, etc.) but he didn't seem to be super busy at that time. I asked him about Earl & his recording session and the songs he cut. Johnny couldn't remember anything at all about the guy, the song or the session. He stated I just used to go into the studio from 9 to 5 everyday and work, do whatever was called for each day. It was just my job. Even with that answer, I doubt anyone here would accuse him of being nothing more than factory worker.

Amsterdam Russ; you're correct.

The songs included in the BBC concert were a very good selection IMHO. Of course, we could all have dropped a few & added others in BUT THEN we weren't asked to compile the selection. With regard to the 'free T-shirts handed out' comment ... NOT SO, the folk being filmed in those clips are the BRISTOL N SOUL POSSE (or whatever they term themselves). They're a well informed team & certainly seemed to enjoy the concert to the full.

I've been corresponding with Philly legend Earl Young a lot recently (he was just cruising around the Med as an 83rd birthday celebration). I informed him that "Hold Back The Night" was included in the concert and he was delighted. I forwarded bits about the concert to him & he was really intrigued & sad he couldn't attend. I'm hoping someone posts a clip of that part of the concert on youtube, so he can watch it (US residents can't utilise BBC iPlayer). I think the fact that Earl's group's hit dated from 1975 & yet Earl is already 83 years old might be a bit of a clue why no original artists were involved. I did forward this clip to him ... a few folk at the concert ...

As a guy who attended many niters & witnessed many OAO (Original Artists Only) performing their latest + older recordings .. AND ALL BEFORE (the term) NS was even invented ... I can truthfully state that ... ... I hardly ever saw a singer who performed his songs in a way that was faithful to their original recording. Apart from the fact that the UK musicians backing them up were nothing like (in expertise & type / variety of instruments played) the original studio band, songs were always 'speeded up' to intensify the vibe & energy of the live performance. It's only with the likes of Ady coming into the picture that acts were asked to try their very best to recreate the sound captured on the original track as committed to vinyl all those years before. So in 66/67/68/69/ etc. you almost never got to witness a track being performed in a way that was faithful to the original recording. So to say the BBC's efforts were 'fake' is to totally miss the point.

If folk keep saying they enjoyed this concert, then there's only one remedy ... Oulu will be sent round to their abode ..

As I live outside Oxford, I'll probably go to see this. Has it been performed anywhere yet & if so, what were the reviews like ?

Some great clips of people enjoying themselves at the event have been posted up on Facebook. Those in attendance certainly seemed to have gotten swept up in the joy of the occasion. www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=search&v=1028987714685544&external_log_id=34215e52-24ed-4784-8e26-16b242e9171c&q=bbc%20northern%20soul%20prom To paraphrase an earlier post on this thread though ... It really has baffled me how we can rave about the pop pap played at the Casino, it has even less soul than my big toe .... ... Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Attending events on the 'rare soul scene' was always a 'phase' in each punters life. My heyday was 1966 to 1970, most folk on here came after me. But by the time the Casino came around, I had a family to think about & so skipping off to nighters 100's of miles away was never on the cards. I always loved my soul, I just followed a more mainstream path. Chasing copies of 45's on Curtom, Philly Int, Hi, Dakar, Invictus, TK and the turned-on majors but not ignoring the likes of KoKo, LoLo, Gemingo, Bashie, Maurci, etc. I'd listen with interest to the NS radio shows but could never really 'buy in' to the 100mph stompers & pop crap that would be aired amongst the pure soul sides spun. But progressive venues started to play more modern / diverse stuff and so my interest was recaptured. Casino goers would come round & plunder my collection and the odd one would even invite me along to enjoy a night at a localish current event (no nighters though). Then a decent nighter started up that was quite local (Rotherham) & it got some plugs from the soul DJ on the local radio stn (Hallam). The kids were now growing up, so I started attending & really enjoyed myself. So I had been brought back into the fold but (of Course) was now much older. So when weekenders started to be organised, that was ideal for me. Dancing at 3.10am, in a warm comfy bed at 3.20am (after my enegry levels hit the buffers). What an ideal situation & with live acts thrown in as well (just like in my old days @ the Mojo, Nite Owl, Wheel). I was even told I should go on NS cruises, but even though we 'cruise' every year, that always seemed a bit too 'over the top' to drag the wife along on. So, as we age, lots of us have entered, left & returned to the 'scene'. The scene itself has evolved. For some that's a bummer ("I only go to oldies events") but for me it's a plus point. I'm even too old now for weekenders (being mid 70's) BUT will still turn out for the right event if it ain't too far away. Heck, the scene has even evolved to taking 100's of Brits to visit the cities the 60's / 70's soul stars live in rather than bringing a bunch of 4/5 US singers to entertain 100's of punters at a do over here. So, the scene / scenes have always evolved -- some hate progress, but it can't be stopped. If 'themed' events in posh London music venues or organised by a main stream hotel chain, bring lovers of our music back. then (I say) more power to those events.

But why all the hate, surely a FORUM is supposed to be supportive of it's clientele, not dismissive.

Ady would know his present whereabouts & (most probably) his current circumstances as Kent keep sending the cheques.

AND my post is an opinion.

I'm with the 'haters' on here. It was nothing like a true reflection of WC ... where were the shite pop tunes, where were the bootleg 45's, why were the audience not made to dress in bags & vests, why wasn't the venue and it's toilets wrecked ahead of the concert to catch the 'real feel' of the Station Road venue. Where was DusbinStanley; it could never have been authentic without him being the headline compere. Why didn't it run through to 8am. Where was the gear. It also seems that the BBC don't intend to run the event week after week, advertising every night as being the 'FINAL NIGHT'. Where was the photographer from the NME to document the death throes of the great institution. NO, I'M AFRAID THAT FOR ME, this BBC concert was just pandering to those folk that enjoy quality music played by talented musicians (& singers). They didn't even have the b*lls to invite Wigan's Ovation (or the Beach Girls) along. PURE SACRILEGE.

Reading lots of the above, I'd say there's loads of vitriol on view. Guess things ain't changed that much since 1965 after all ...

A BBC piece about the concept of this BBC prom ... go to 27mins + in to catch the relevant bit ... he impresses me coz he says straight out that this isn't aimed at the purists, just connoisseurs & others. As he says ... "We're taking [Northern Soul] to a grander and fuller stage in every sense... For me it will be thrilling / emotional that they'll be records I heard as a 12 year old!" www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001npdh?fbclid=IwAR3peXf8mjQA6Lfmq22nAgyN6p-Y5p5tr7GcbpzdCaqpDECz1HDiYABF1hY

Authentic northern soul weekenders (both holiday camp or hotel based) are for dedicated fans. But there's no reason why others shouldn't do northern hotel breaks for the less committed -- after all they do northern soul ferry trips, northern soul cruises, northern soul river trips, etc.

Really enjoyable. A fine effort from everyone involved.

No help on finding a 1979 recording but there's a long & interesting interview he did up on the net ... He's Slim Gaillard's son, his sister Janis married Marvin Gaye (Mark spent years hanging out / working in Marvin's recording studio) .. his dad & MPG are the guys referred to in this extract from the interview ... Mark & his wife (who wrote lots together) divorced years ago. He / they wrote loads of songs that are registered with BMI ... are you sure that he actually recorded the song in 79 and didn't just write it then.