Roburt

There was an various artists Xmas LP ('Happy Christmas, Baby' - LP 501) put out on Hollywood Records at the end of 65. I have no idea what artists / tracks it contained though.

1963 and the Treniers were in town .......... .... this group were in quite a few films in the 50's ........... Don't Knock the Rock (1956) The Girl Can't Help It (1957) Calypso Heat Wave (1957) Juke Box Rhythm (1959) They wanted a R&R President ... don't think Barack qualifies though I'm sure the guys would have approved of him ....

The guys that were Edwin Starr's backing band from 1965 to around 68 (the Soul Agents) became (after the 2 brass players went home to Cleveland) Black Merda. Their stuff (under the Black Merda name) was heavily influenced by the Hendrix' sound. It's not actually my 'cup of tea' .... ...... but it just shows how easy it was back then to go from performing as Impact (behind Gene Chandler, Billy Butler, the Artistics & the Spinners) to backing Edwin on "Back Street", "Stop Her On Sight", "You're My Mellow" & "25 Miles" to cutting "Foxy Lady" & "Reality". ............

Don't know that one.

But was the problem with the quality of the master tape recording or just what it sounded like when converted into vinyl format ?? Maybe there's a pucker original master tape that sounds just great (but where that would be found now is anyone's guess).

I'm not dissing that particular 45 .... but are there ANY other Barron Knight's Columbia records (or Epic even) that go for more than a couple of quid. Their stuff was popular as 'radio plays' back in the 60's so I guess quite a few Emidiscs of their stuff was sent out .... but the uda tracks haven't stood up well to the test of time (corny comedy & mimicry type cuts).

Heck, I didn't realise just how many different Guinness label albums were put out.

This tale has been told many times in the past ... BUT ... heyho ..... In the late 60's / 70's when London based indie record labels (the type that put out soul / ska / reggae 45's) wanted to dump stock ..... ... many times, a van filled with said 45's would head north up the M1 and the entire contents would be dropped off at St Albans tip (which I'm told was right next to where the M25 now is -- just east of the M1 / M25 junct). By all accounts, it was quite a well known happening & guys who worked on the tip knew to rescue as many as they could & wait for a dealer to call them & arrange to buy what they had. The son has lived in St Albans for about 12 years now but the practise was terminated many years ago (I believe).

CHEERS .......... ... but as its a film its not up on I-Player. I'll have to wait till the BBC screen it again.

Damn, missed it ............... & it's not due to be on again real soon .... ... https://www.tvguide.co.uk/searchfilm.asp?title=Cemetery%20Junction What channel was it on ?? Worked in Reading till 5 years ago (4gudol Thames Water), so know the place well. I'd watch this for the Reading related bits & for the soul content. Were bits of the film actually shot in the town ?? Chatted lots back then with a local 2nd hand record shop guy who had been into soul (NS) since the 70's .... he related tales of what the locals used to get up to back then (including the coach trips up to Wigan).

I have some similar TAPE 1 UK acetates of modern(-ish) soul stuff. Also have a few done by MASTER ROOM (Custom Cutting To the Record Industry) of Ridinghouse St, London ...... I have posted a scan of a label off one of these up on the TEST PRESSINGS thread. When the Record & Tape Exchange shop on Goldhawk Rd (just west of Goldhawk Rd Underground Stn in Shepherds Bush) was still there (about 20 years back), they would get such acetates in on a regular basis (as a couple of acetate cutting studios were local to it & they cleared their store rooms out every 18 months or so). If you dropped by that shop when such a clear out had just taken place, you could pick up acetates of UK soul (7" / 12" / LP) for a few pence a go (but with the info on each label being very sparse, you took a chance on getting some rubbish). Picked up a 12" acetate there of an unissued track by Frankie Kelly ("Ain't That The Truth" being his biggie that Virgin put out on 10). Virgin must have been considering releasing this unissued cut at one stage but passed on the idea after having some acetates cut..

Well we had a very similar thread about 3 weeks ago & the person who started it wouldn't accept that Emidiscs started life as official EMI acetates at the start of the 60's (or even a bit earlier). Of course you're right, you didn't contribute to the earlier thread (which was Unknown - You Turn Me On BTW). A piece posted up on Discogs .......... I was involved with the recording industry in the 1960's, so perhaps I can clarify the 'Emidisc' situation. Bands/Groups/Artistes would either hire private studios, or be given Record Company studio time, in order to make practice, experimental, or demonstration recordings. The finished recording would be on a 'recording industry standard tape'. This was far too wide for a domestic tape recorder and played at a different speed. The performer(s) would be given the options of purchasing copies of their work on Industry Standard Tape, Domestic Reel to Reel Tape, or Acetate Disc. To the best of my knowledge, the only blank acetates used in the UK were Emidiscs. The recording was not 'pressed' onto the acetate, but individually 'cut' by a machine. This resembled a record player that worked in reverse. Putting it simply, sound was transferred from the Master Tape to a diamond cutter that vibrated, and cut the grooves. This was old technology that dated back to Edison recordings at the beginning of the 20th Century. If six copies of a double sided single were required, you had to wait while the machine performed twelve times. This took time and these demo discs were not cheap! I cannot ever recall any of these acetates being given matrix or run-off numbers. The self-adhesive labels were provided separately so that any info could be typed on them. These were always blank except for the printed Emidisc blurb around the rim. Any catalogue numbers were typed on by the performer’s management and were nothing to do with Emidisc or EMI. What the guy on Discogs doesn't say (coz he obviously didn't actually work for EMI) was that EMI themselves used the discs to make their own acetates. You can get some genuine EMI Emidisc acetates quite cheaply (if you're into Barron Knight's records that is).

Emidisc's were EMI's offical acetates, thus Stateside, HMV, Columbia label stuff (& more) were put on Emidiscs. Of course, EMI made Emidisc's for outside parties -- other labels in the 60's ... but by the 70's these were also made for NS DJ's & dealers. But back in the 60's, an EMI acetate would be an Emidisc as it would appear with a Emidisc label on it (this all being beforeNS bootlegs). We have had this discussion before but you just don't want to accept the truth.

A big hit back in the early 70's ............. Johnny Taylor .......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF_m0v_S6B8

Yes, I remember going into a record shop on the Kings Rd around 1969 / 70. When we started asking for soul 45's, the guy behind the counter suddenly got interested in us .... ... got loads of UK Major Lance 45's he said, can't give em away. We bought a couple each but as we were really just killing time whilst the ladies spent all our cash on clothes, we couldn't do his stock the justice that we would have liked.

I like most types of black music including psychsoul plus Sidney Barnes (an old group member) is a friend ........ BUT ... I was never able to get into Rotary Connection stuff.

Well if we insisted on a OSO (Orig Soulies Only) or OCO (Orig Casinoites Only) policy at NS events, the scene would have died off years ago. Can't see what all the fuss is concerning OVO mesen, as long as people are dancing the DJ's are achieving their aim. ............ HOPE THAT strict Boba don't delete this as being 'off topic'.

Richard didn't jump from Hallam to Red Rose, he was pushed. The local (Sheff area) West Indian listeners used to write in asking for a ska / reggae / local WI news show. Hallam didn't want to give them this, so they told RS to incoporate ska / reggae cuts into his existing soul show (making it a black music show). RS said he had a mate (Dean) who could provide him with a couple of 'classic' WI tracks each week and (under protest) he'd play these. But Hallam wanted him to play what the locals wanted including new reggae stuff (if I'm remembering correctly). So the Hallam lot said NO to his suggestion & insisted he made it an all inclusive black music show; RS declined and so quit and went off to Red Rose. Within 2 weeks all his old audience had been lost by whoever the replacement DJ on Hallam was. With Red Rose (Preston) being just about on the coast, he was almost instantly getting listeners as far afield as Llandudno. Those folk would write into Red Rose who couldn't believe how 'far flung' their audience now was (at least for Richard's show). Of course, Hallam would never admit they had cocked up in forcing him out.

Another thing about being a UK local radio DJ ....... you only got paid by the hour & only for the time you were actually 'on air'. So although RS would travel across from Oldham (via Mancaster) and spend most of Saturday driving, buying stuff, preparing for the show, broadcasting and then heading home ..... ....... he was only paid for 2 hrs work a week. He would spend far more on 'new release' vinyl each week than he earned from Radio Hallam. The stn contended that each of it's DJ's could pick up loads of extra bookings (& therefore fees) coz they had their radio shows ... so their pay from the stn was secondary income. However, as RS lived in Lancashire, he took few local gigs due to his profile with Radio Hallam (he did DJ in Church Warsop & @ Clifton Hall in Rudarum .... but both those gigs were attained via his NS profile not coz he was on Hallam). Around that time, he did stop spending big money @ the Bowl and started playing lots more new release MS on his soul club gigs. So at least he got some 'extra use' out of the vinyl he originally bought for his Hallam slot.

RS had to hit the floor running at Radio Hallam in the early 80's. As I understand the tale (he's know better but ain't on here), he used to visit the radio stn as part of his RCA / Grapevine promo work. The usual Hallam soul show guy (who used to have a NS spot with the 45's supplied by Worksop's Pete Ward) quit the show at very short notice. Richard was visiting the stn at the 'right time' & was asked if he wanted to step up & help them out. He took the chance & his radio career was launched. He developed a 'show concept' overnight & stuck with it throughout his 'Hallam' period. Opened (@ 6pm) with a few newies, mixed in a few old goodies & then it was the NS spot around 30 mins in. Back to a mix of new US & UK releases mixed with fine oldies (all genres) then the deep soul & jazz spots before 7pm. 'Record of the week' straight after 7pm and then more mixing of new & old stuff through to 8pm. A bit of gig news was thrown in and a few dedications for people who had written in. I visited him at the stn quite a bit & his 'way of working' was wonderful to watch. He would visit a couple of record shops around Manc on the Sat morning & then call in at another specialist shop outside Sheffield (in a suburb up the hills towards Manc). He'd then pick up the new UK stuff that had been sent to the stn with his name on. So by around 3pm he would have his record box & all the new stuff available and he'd set about sorting out what he would play that night. He would skim through (say) 10 import 45's, 10 import LP's, 10 new UK 45's and 5 UK LP's all in under an hour. He'd select what to play, mix in a few from his record box and the show would be ready. What got me was that he'd spend about 5 / 6 minutes only listening to each LP but would just about always pick up on the best 2 / 3 tracks off each album within that time. ALWAYS AMAZED ME HOW HE COULD DO THAT & GET IT RIGHT SO OFTEN. But he was also flexible .... about 10 mins before the slot, he'd sometimes say to me ... you're picking the stuff on the NS slot today, pick 3 tracks out of your box & I'd have to do just that.

RE: start a debate around payment of artists at the time,or near the time,of recording. A few posts on the IRONY thread in ALL ABOUT THE SOUL section deal with issues close to this.

Non- hit groups (& there were 1000's of those) along with their producers & record labels were always seeking out that illusive hit. The best way most tried to achieve this was by seeing what type of sounds were dominating the current soul 45's chart & making a similar sounding track. Thus, if a group / solo artist hung about on the recording scene for some years they would put out cuts influenced (at different times) by the likes of the Impressions, Uptown New York cuts, New Orleans influenced stuff, Motown, Stax, James Brown, Funkadelic, Norman Whitfield stuff, Hi / Al Green stuff, Philly International tracks, etc. Thus an act could (& did) make records that had them sounding like many different artists .... all in a name of trying to secure a hit. Many acts had a psychedelic sou era but then moved on to 'the next big thing'.

I think you're simplifying things quite a bit. When the skinhead thing hit, there was revived interest in 60's ska / reggae 45's. Same again in the Two Tone era and then again with Madness & UB40 fans. Just when beat up old ska / reggae 45's went thru the roof (value wise) I'm sure others (Pete S) can identify much closer than I could .... but it was a good few years back.

Back in the day, an American based soul artist had to have a record on the charts to secure a decent number of live gigs. If you didn't have a hot record, you were 'old news' & couldn't land any live gigs. A new 45, especially if it was played on the radio, would secure them a chitlin circuit tour that could run to 12 to 16 weeks (starting in New York and playing week long engagements in Philly, DC, Baltimore, Norfolk, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, St Louis, Memphis, Atlanta, Miami and such like). So even if they never received a cent in record royalties, it was worth them having a new 45 out as it could help them earn up to $10,000 in live show fees. By the early 70's, the top soul acts were earning really good peformance fees ... BUT .... they started putting them on in bigger arenas (to help cover the promoters higher artist cost's) and so engagements dropped from 7 night stints to 1 / 2 night stints in each city. So , coz they were doing less gigs, they still only ended up with the same total in fees. Unfortunately, lesser artists (the support acts) fees didn't increase that much but they also suffered around a 70% reduction in bookings. Artists who hadn't been 'hot' for a while would end up playing regular gigs in the UK (& elsewhere in Europe) from the mid 60's thru to the 70's, as audiences here didn't care about hit 45's. That was coz hardly any soul 45's made our pop charts, so the lack of chart hits didn't really matter here. Thus the likes of Ben E King, Jimmy Ruffin, Oscar Toney Jnr, Jnr Walker & more were always over here back then. Others soon followed & quite a few settled here.

Seem to recall some of the later Artistics cuts & other stuff out of Chicago (Chi-Lites, Lost Generation, etc.) being quite psychedelic soul influenced (but then by 69, any group influenced by the Temptations was going psychedelic).