Roburt

There's another link between Lou Ragland & Detroit (in addition to his link (once-removed) from the Pack & their work @ Golden World's studio. In summer 67, Way Out sent Lou to Detroit to gain access to the local studios & find out the 'secret' of their hit sound. Don't think Motown would let Lou anywhere near the inside of their studio, but he did visit United Sound & Golden World. Maybe his work with Terry Knight got him access he wouldn't normally have been given. He played on the Precisions "If This Is Love" and other tracks cut at sessions done that particular week. He headed back to Cleveland and used his 'new found' knowledge to cut Way Out tracks that MGM distributed in early 68.

RELATED QUESTION ... what was the Brenda Holloway dance cut on the BBC's 'MY GUY' radioplay LP that was a totally different recording / mix to the original released version ? (used to know, but at 75, the memory is shot).

So the Wheel in 66/67 wasn't playing Northern Soul tracks ?

Terry Knight had 'dumped' the Pack & had his 1st solo 45 out in May 67. Just days later he was over in Cleveland with Lou Ragland leading his backing band (though Lou still kept doing solo things as well) ... Lots of top Brit acts would play the club that Terry, Lou R, etc played in Cleveland. So I guess, those same UK groups & their members (Rod Stewart, Steve Winwood, etc) would have been playing the same clubs across NE USA as Lou was playing. Wonder if Lou got to meet Rod, Stevie ? (too late to ask now).

+ Chalky said ... To say punters weren't bothered isn't strictly true. . . . The scene has always been centred around rare records, exclusive Dj plays, its always been elitist ... CHALKY, NOT THE CASE IN THE MID 60's ... I was attending lots of the top soul clubs (outside London) back then -- the Mojo, Bee Gee, Nite Owl, Wheel, Tin Chicken, etc ... we didn't know enough back then to know what was RARE ... we'd assume an obscure 45 on UK HMV or Pye International was rare just coz we couldn't find a copy when we wanted it. We'd also no idea if a 45 on say US Symbol, Sue, Sims or Bell was as rare as a 45 on Shrine, Velgo, Bonnie or Queen City (not that we knew those labels even existed). We just wanted to own a copy of the single we were dancing to each weekend & didn't care if had made the top of the US R & B charts / made the Hot 100 pop chart. The majority of UK released soul 45's had either been at least 'radio hits' in the US or came from a US label that already had a licensing deal with a UK record company. UK released 45's were the mainstay of the scene we were on. When we get to 1972/73 things had certainly changed but back when we were chasing copies of "Jump Back", "Ride Your Pony" "I Did Your Act", "See Saw" & "Whispers" it wasn't so. To many on here, those were all youth club tracks, to us they were mainstream niter fooder.

Golden World & it's studio were always about more than soul / NS output -- though we on here revere it for that side of it's work. AN EXAMPLE ... a Flint rock group started out on the path to fame by using a Shangri-Las hit song as the inspiration for their name. With the name change (to THE PACK) came a different music style, the guys switching from jazz to rock. They would soon allow their new lead singer, ex DJ Terry Knight, to put his name ahead of the groups, after he used his industry contacts to land them a record deal. The Pack's first single, "Tears Come Rolling"/"The Colour of Our Love", was recorded at Golden World's Studio and was released on the Wingate label. John Rhys wrote & produced "Tears Come Rolling". The group's manager, Jim Atherton from Flint, felt that Wingate was not the right label for a British-influenced Rock group. So he convinced fellow Flint businessman Otis Ellis to record the band on his small Lucky Eleven label. Before the band recorded their second single, the band name was changed to Terry Knight and The Pack, The group started having hits (local at first) and the guys in the Pack were soon being regarded more as Terry Knight's backing band (he becoming the star name their promotion was focused on). There was a falling out & so Terry Knight went solo (after "I Who Have Nothing" was a big hit). Though they were from Flint, they spent a lot of time in Cleveland (where they were very very popular) & where they were regulars on the locally made TV show 'Upbeat'. So when Terry needed new guys to back him, he headed for Cleve. There, he recruited Lou Ragland & some of Lou's musician mates & they went on the road. Lou couldn't believe the difference in the treatment they got on that tour. They were playing 'white clubs' exclusively (not chitlin circuit clubs black acts played). They didn't have to set up their own instruments / gear on stage (just had to do a short sound check ahead of the show), they had great dressing rooms, were given food & drink whenever they asked, were booked into decent hotels, etc, etc). The time Lou spent on the road with Terry really opened his eyes to what treatment he should now expect. The Pack continued on (& as I was informed by Neil Rushton in a Facebook post) .... . . John Rhys was in London to deliver the Shades Of Blue “Oh How Happy” tape to Island Records. Chris Blackwell, the owner of Island, took John out in London and they saw one of the first performances by Jimi Hendrix. John loved one of Jimi’s songs and asked if he could record it on The Pack for Capitol Records when he got back to Detroit. The next night Jimi gave John a tape with the track on. John recorded it and 7 other tracks for Capitol who he recalls “hated” the music. . . . The Pack metamorphosed into Grand Funk Railroad. The Pack's final single for Capitol Records, was that cover version of Jimi Hendrix's "Fire" retitled "Next To Your Fire". The 45 was popular in Michigan but failed to chart outside the state. The Packs full-length Capitol LP was never released though, but 3 songs from those sessions ("Getting Into The Sun", "Can't Be Too Long [Faucet]" and "Got This Thing On The Move") did eventually appear on a compilation album released much later on. I guess the remnants of the group, when they chose their later name __ GRAND FUNK Railroad (though it was GRAND TRUNK RAILROAD originally) were harking back to their more-soul / jazz based origins. The guys must have forgiven Terry Knight for 'dumping them' as he became their manager for a while. Capitol also revised their view on the group's rock style as it was Capitol who signed them to a deal in 69.

I was referring to the top sounds & their value in the Casino era, by then I was off the niter scene & buying much more modern / mainstream stuff. I didn't really care what was big @ Wigan or know / care about the value (unless by chance, I had a copy myself). But from the mid 60's to around 72, I was buying stuff I didn't know (buying blind or on a recommendation). I never paid much for any of these purchases (my most expensive buy being the French Motown EP that contained "Love A GoGo" -- coz that was the only way to get one of my fave Mojo anthem tracks on 7") but that didn't mean I didn't get hold of a few items that became top sounds later on. But I either liked them or not because of what they sounded like, not whether they were rare or not. I liked the Sapphires "Gotta Have Your Love" and so bid about 2/6 off a mailing list for a different Sapphires 45. This was an import only item but I didn't like it coz the lyrics were too banal for my taste. Thus I sold this 45 to a niter guy who'd come round to listen to items in my collection. I sold it for a small sum (in 1970) & never regretted it -- the track in question being "Slow Fizz". I got back into the 'scene' again after Richard Searling started up on Radio Hallam & I liked most of what he was playing (new, jazz funk, deep, NS, MS, etc.). He was playing NS stuff I liked & that caught my interest (+ the best current niter venue was just down the road). So, since around 1980, I did take an interest once again in prices, so of course that meant I had to care about rarity. Still would want to own a track by say Zingara over one by the Magnetics though.

I don't think the DJ's were actively seeking out rare records as such, though of course they all wanted exclusives (even back then). Some of the import 45's that got played in clubs like the Wheel (& the Scene in London) came from UK record companies who had the rights to many US soul tracks. They couldn't afford to release them all .As little or no money was put into promoting soul 45 releases by UK majors back then, the 45's would 'sink or swim' on their own merit. So, to test the waters, UK labels would get some import copies & send them to pirate radio & club DJ's. If they got a good reaction, then the 45 would be considered for UK release ... of course, with clubs being involved, the tracks that prospered were mainly dance tempo items. Back then there was no internet and little info on US soul 45 releases included in UK music mags. So, apart from on labels such as Motown, Stax, Atlantic, Bell, Chess, most new US releases went under the radar. I would try to find 'unknowns' by bidding low on a 45 by an act I had heard of or that was on a label a fave of mine had come out on. Lots of the time this 'blind buying' would get me a 45 I didn't really like, but the cost was low enough per 45 to make it worthwhile. When B&S came about, knowledge on what was around in the US jumped right up. Listening to pirate radio from around 65 also increased my knowledge as they always played lots of imports.

Nashville radio stn WLAC had strong ties to Randys Record Shop -- think the shop sponsored shows on the stn. Anyway, I'd get sent the latest Randys 45 catalogue each time a new edition was printed (annually ? or even more often). At first, I'd just order from what was listed in the mag -- mainly newer releases. But then I realised that stuff like Bobby Bland's "Call On Me" was already years old & that some major label 45's never took off anywhere across the States and so issues were hard to track down. But radio stn copies of many you could get. So I started to send 'wants lists' to Randys & Ray Averys. I got lucky quite a few times via Randys Records & they'd send me a radio stn copy of a 45 I'd enquired about (The Kittens "Ain't No More Room" being the 1st of these I recall). The only annoying thing was, they'd scratch off the NOT FOR SALE writing on the 45 labels & I didn't like having un-played singles with 'damaged labels'. I always suspected that some of the 45's they sent me had been sourced from the WLAC library (but have no idea if I'm right). WLAC: The powerhouse Nashville station that helped introduce R&B to the world (tennessean.com) ... //eu.tennessean.com/in-depth/entertainment/2021/09/23/wlac-radio-nashville-station-rb-soul-music/5606792001/

No idea when 'rarity' became the be all & end all of the NS scene ... don't really care that much either as that part of the scene was never for me -- I had a family to look after, so paying £100 for a soul 45 was never on my radar. BUT, I was collecting soul 45's from 1965, starting with buying just UK 45's, then UK LP's . . ... then when I was attending the Wheel most weekends & the DJ's there were playing UK 45's that had been deleted, I started chasing import 45's from places like Soul City Shop (mail order), F L Moores (L Buzzard), UK Record Dealers mailed out lists, Ray Avery Rare Recs (Calif), Randy's Record Shop (Gallatin, US) & via New Jersey Record Warehouses I managed to get lists sent from. My trips to the Wheel niters started in September 67. I used to think (may be wrong, but that was my impression at the time), that lots of UK soul 45's (by the lesser known acts) were 'held back' by the Wheel DJ's till after they had been deleted here AND ONLY THEN they would all start hammering those singles. There was a big earthquake in Calif in 1971 & I think that caused major damage at Randys Rec Store (San Fran), he lost lots of his rare stock, so I stopped ordering 45's from him after that. The other outlets I would buy from till I stopped attending niters in the early 70's I was still buying more recent releases / soul packs / soul sound 45's from the likes of B&S / Boylens, etc around 1971 -- I recall wanting the latest 45 from Marvin Smith on Mayfield at the time (early 71 - being made aware of it from the new US 45 release listings in every B&S mag). That 45 had "Who Will Do Your Running Now" on the B side but I didn't know the track, I just liked everything Curtis Mayfield had a hand in at that time. From there, I got more into major label soul stuff and gradually lost touch with what were the latest sounds on the niter scene. I had amassed a large collection of UK / US / Euro released soul 45's / LP's though. Current niter goers back then -- Paul Temple, his mate from Selby (was his name Sharkey or sumat like that), Snowy and his mates would call round & plunder my collection for stuff that was much more valuable on the NS scene than I realised; Tobi Legend on US issue, Artistics on Okeh and much more.

Most 'unexpected' session @ Golden World studio (to me anyway) ... Harold Smith's Majestic Choir -- Just As I Am LP (Checker) -- summer 1966 "We Can All Walk A Little Bit Prouder" wasn't cut there though.

Loosely related ... my pic of the Ric Tic Revue folk @ the Ritz (Edwin was missing) ...

When Motown took over Golden World, their Hitsville studio was in full operation with the one-inch, eight-track format. Golden World had a 1/2 inch three-track Ampex 300-3SS, and a Scully 1/2 inch four-track recorder. From BG on down through producers, like Norman Whitfield, etc., it was considered that this lack of eight-track technology an unacceptable limitation that rendered the newly named DAF [Davison Avenue Facility -- Studio B) unusable. Right off the bat, the pressure was on to revise the equipment so as to make productive use of Studio B a possibility. The first thing Motown did at Golden World was to install eight-track recording equipment & a new console. The acoustics in the studio were considered sufficiently good that Motown never felt the need to change this. Golden World used a Neumann AM-32B lathe (see pic) for disc mastering but it was installed in a small room, so the facility was very cramped. However overall the original Golden World studio design was deemed very good, considering the money available at the time it was constructed (April 65).

A couple of their very early releases get reviewed ... Both Golden World and Ric-Tic Records were operating from early 1962. Run by Ed Wingate and Joanne Bratton till the summer of 1963, label operations being mainly undertaken in New York by Leonard Reed. Ed and Joanne would commute to & fro between Detroit and New York. The Ric Tic name came from the nickname of JoAnne's son to boxer Johnnie Bratton. Myto Music was named after Joanne's Aunt Myrtle and her cousin Toni. Leroy Smalley was from Cleveland.

A couple more ...

Thought these items may be of interest to some .... Wonder if the mag typesetter or the Ric Tic exec got a b*ll*cking for the "Whole World Is A Stage" ad error ...

In the Guardian article above, they select the 10 most defining tracks that Nina cut down the many years of her recording career ... this was one of them ... her version of a Leonard Cohen song .... 10 of Nina Simone’s most defining tracks -- #1. Suzanne This was cut for her 'To Love Somebody' album which came out in 1969. She also performed the song on many of the UK / European concerts she undertook in March / April 69 -- in fact she performed every song off that album during the tour. She played Belfast, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Manchester & London dates here. Her main backing singer on that tour & on the recording session for the album was one DORIS WILLINGHAM aka DORIS DUKE ...

A couple of Shrine related bits ... enter now if you want to land a record deal with the label ...

Nina Simone recorded quite a few radio / TV shows in the UK / Europe in 1968. A big TV special featuring her was recorded in late May 68 (shown later & in the US in March 69). She also did a recorded show for the BBC (radio I presume). She returned to the UK in Dec 68 and did Top Of The Pops (12th Dec) and the David Frost TV Show (8th Dec). From what I can tell, she was still just performing with her small backing outfit (no Doris Duke). Done some checking & it seems the bigger backing team for Nina Simone (musicians + singers) was put together for the UK / European tour in March 69. Doris & the 2nd female backing singer did all the shows on that tour -- March 10th to April 5th (or thereabouts). The full ensemble (10 strong) must have done some shows in the US ahead of xing the pond, to make sure they were ready to impress from their 1st show over here (Dublin). The whole bunch of them had rehearsed a number of songs and these were listed in the tour programme for the UK shows -- Nina would perform which ones she wanted on each night (all being from the list). In June 69, her new album was released in the US ('To Love Somebody') and all the tracks on it were also selected from the list she performed over here -- Doris Willingham was a backing vocalist on the album tracks, so I guess it was really just a studio based version of the UK live shows. No idea how long RCA took to get from laying down tracks to releasing a finished album, so am unsure if the tracks from the album were cut ahead of the trip to the UK or after their time in the UK was over. The whole ensemble stayed together on the return to the US and did some high profile shows in the US too -- an example being the Berkeley Jazz Festival @ the very end of April. In mid May she was doing a week @ the Apollo Theatre (Harlem) and the Swordsmen (the Cleve group signed to her label, who would do live shows with her (including some in the UK later in 69). Don't know if Doris Duke was still with her for this week, but would GUESS that she was. The Sound Of Soul TV show (May 68) ... no Doris Duke at this time ...

Doris, when she was a backing singer for Nina Simone (not sure if the pic is from a US or UK show -- Doris on the left) ... the other lady is Gina Rothschild.

Doris Duke's time with Nina Simone must have been a bit traumatic as this was just about the most turbulent time in Nina's life (& she had quite a few of those). Nina had toured the UK in 1967 doing small soul clubs (& some jazz venues). But then "Ain't Got No" was a big pop chart hit here in autumn 68. She came to the UK to promote the 45 (doing an in-person appearance @ Soul City record shop for her fans -- SC's David Nathan ran her fan club at the time) and to do a Top of the Pops TV show (mid Dec 68). She had two more pop chart hits early in 69 and so returned to the UK for a tour of bigger venues (March 69). At the time she was backed up on live shows by her quartet (in all but name, the Weldon Irvine group) + backing singers [one of whom was as stated Doris Willingham / Doris Duke) and acts signed to Ninandy Records [her brother Sam Waymon plus -- on a 2nd tour later in 69 -- Cleve outfit, the Swordsmen). At the time her marriage to her abusive husband (Andy Stroud) was breaking down, so her personal life was in crisis. Stroud was also her manager / booker and ran their record label, so her business affairs must have been complicated. ALSO, after seeing how black people were still treated in the US and how they were being sent in high numbers to Viet Nam to die, she adopted a high profile Civil Rights stance & anti-war stance. This made her unpopular with the US government, the FBI and many everyday Americans. Coz of that, I think RCA got a bit scared of her being signed to the label -- she'd had a big hit for them with "Young, Gifted & Black" (written by Weldon Irvine). So her record biz life was also getting quite complicated. So she packed a bag & moved to Barbados (where she started an affair with the head of state there). She did cut tracks that RCA released on an album in 71 but Stroud was no longer involved with them & her contribution (if not already in the can) was added from abroad. After a spell in the Caribbean, she moved to Africa (Liberia) & then Europe (France. etc) and never again lived in the US for any length of time (though she visited to record & do live shows). Don't think Doris was with Nina when she made her PA @ the Soul City record shop. Or how the turbulence of her time with Nina had much of an effect on Doris at all. Nina, who was diagnosed as being Bipolar later in her life, was a very turbulent person to work with most of the time -- I'm sure Doris would have seen / been involved in some incidents caused by Nina's mental health problems. Nina did a 2nd UK tour later in 69 (November), don't think Doris was with her on that.

Geoege Kerr (who co-wrote this song) was a Motown New York office staffer from 63 till the operation was closed down. Even after 64, lots of the songs other artists recorded were his efforts published by Jobete -- Among his Jobete published songs are tracks by the Chiffons, (63), Tamiko, Sparkels, Richard Simmons, Exotics (all 64) thru to those by Carl Hall, Linda Jones (65 releases). So I don't think there's anything 'iffy' about the Bobby Moore song being a Jobete effort.

An extract from Andy Rix's fine article on Motown's New York office & the work done by the team there ... . . . Much better listening is afforded by Bobby Moore's 'I Carefully Checked Your Heart', one of two George Kerr-Jerry Harris compositions that appeared as a single on the tiny Kay-O label in late 1963. Bobby is clearly NOT the Alabama-based sax-playing Bobby Moore who scored a couple of years later on Chess with 'Searching For My Love' ... MORE ADDITIONAL INFO ... Bobby Moore & the Fourmosts cut "It Was A Lie" was picked up by Red Bird for national distribution in July 1966. This was just before Red Bird closed down -- their last single escaping in Sept 66 (# 083). . . . A matter of weeks before the BM & 4Most 45 had been issued, Red Bird had licensed a UK recording for US release. This was credited to the Silence (an early name used by UK mod group John's Children who for a brief time included Marc Bolan among their members). Although Red Bird boss George Goldner had agreed to put out a record by John's Children, under the name of the Silence, the 45 did not actually feature the group. Pierre Tubbs, of the Jeeps, had cut his two songs for the 45 on John's Children but he didn't like the results. So he recut them himself, with his group the Jeeps, and sent those tracks to Red Bird for the US 45 release. Around the same time, Pierre Tubbs was working with J J Jackson (by then the very recent ex-writing partner of Red Bird artist Sidney Barnes). J J in conjunction with the Jeeps would cut his song "But It's Alright" in Strike Records London studio. J J only cut "But It's Alright" himself after it had been rejected by a UK male group or singer he (J J) was working with (either the Pretty Things, David Essex or Miki Dallon).

I don't want to 'pour cold water' on what is a fine article but surely the bit about Doris working for Motown's New York office from 65 to 67 is wrong. BG shut down Motown's NY office in April 64. To back up this info, Sidney Barnes has often stated that he only started penning songs with J J Jackson after he'd left Motown following their NY office being closed (before that he'd written for Jobete in conjunction with George Kerr). I don't know the exact date of the start of the Barnes / Jackson teaming or what the 1st song that they wrote together was BUT one of their songs was cut by Mary Wells for her initial 20th Century LP which was released in March 65, so must have been recorded very early in 1965.

New release 7" single available direct from the artist in the US ... Pumpkin -- Take Me Back Paris Ford has a long music career history; he started out playing bass on the Oneness of Ju Ju's mid 70's album, moved on quickly to play with the likes of The B.B.Q. Band, Whole Darn Family, Rick James, Johnny Gill, Evelyn “Champagne” King, Lenny White, Tyrone Thomas, Norman Connors, Lonnie Liston Smith, Invisible Mans Band, Glen Jones, Vicki Sue Robinson, Jean Carn, etc. James Robinson is already well known to MS fans as a solo artist but also sang lead with Change. Go to the guy's web page to buy this 45 ... $13 including P&P to the UK & Europe. Listen to it on the site ... //parisfordrecords.wixsite.com/my-site?fbclid=IwAR3W3xLHgceaB0wndf0b8J3vPeb18nyXrIZXHp8-W2RUjz4bLNae3pTjk9w