Roburt

I believe that the Irral 45 was released in 1963 and must have sold well enough in California to warrant a 2nd press + a national distribution deal with Dot (probably a few months after its Irral issue at the very end of 63 or early 64). The 45 raised Joe's profile enough for Irral to land him a record contract with VJ. Irral Berger (who ran the Irral label) wrote both “My Adorable One” & “Say (That Your Love Is True)” that Joe had released on a VJ 45 in August 1964 (his 2nd VJ outing I think). Of course, we don't know if Irral Berger actually wrote those songs or if he just took credit for them as part of the deal that resulted in Joe cutting them. "My Adorable One" was cut by a number of other artists & a few versions sold well, so Irral must have made a bit of money from it down the years.

Seems those Datone acts are getting about again this year ........... ... hope Aussie soulies all know about this gig ...........

Extract from the above article ........... In the late seventies, Meaux facing a slew of tax related issues, sought to defray his bills by releasing a then unprecedented amount of unreleased material he had recorded through the years. The tax scam album as it is today known was the shady art of recording and then releasing a record for the sole purpose of claiming it at an inflated cost of production and loss come April 15th. A method for making gargantuan tax write-offs without having actually spent said costs by a long shot. It was incredibly illegal but not the easiest manner in which to be caught for tax evasion. The LA based Emkay label 45's (Hypnotics, Charles Drain, Love Set, Otis Williams) were put out for this self same reason.

Would say that the RCA outfit would have been from the New York area (or at least have cut there). That would account for the involvement of Teacho Wilshire, Charlie Foxx & them cutting some NY Motown office songs.

Would guess that the EVD and Brenda Holloway ones are up there with the most in demand items. But I'd guess most of the early Tam/Mot UK LP's are sought after by label collectors. I used to have a copy of the 1st Mary Wells UK Mot LP. If memory serves me right, it had a Stateside release number in the run out groove (though this may have been scratched out & the T/Mot number added).

The 521 Club was located at 1134 Fulton Street in Brooklyn, on a busy road junction (the corner of Fulton & Franklin Ave). By all accounts, you could see into the club if you were standing on the platform of the adjacent Franklin Ave Metro Station (which was elevated here rather than underground — see photo of access bridge onto stn platform). Seems that it operated from the late 50's through to the mid 70's and was owned / run by a number's runner; Eugene Goldston or Golston. The likes of Eb Davis & the SoulGroovers, Lew Kirton, Jerry Lawson (of the Persuasions), the Shufflers & Paul Osher were all regulars at the place. The club had its own house band, who at one time were Sue recording act; Jimmy Oliver & Soul Twisters. Jimmy Oliver & his Soul Twisters were the club's resident band from 1961 to at least 1966. They were most probably the group referred to as the 521 Club Band on Paul Walters 45. The band obviously opened up for all the live acts who played the club (backing the main act up instrumentally after having started the show on their own). Seems they must have performed a lot of Motown numbers in their shows (judging by the songs they did covers of on their Sue LP). The club's record label put out at least a couple of 45's, these were by Little David (Smith) and Paul Walters. Recording artists who played / hung out at the club included Millie Jackson, Little Johhny Taylor, The Invitations, The Persuasions, Kenny Hamber & Sterling Harrison. Today, the building that housed the club is a Popeyes Chicken fast food restaurant (see picture; its the building under the bridge behind the white van). Fulton St starts just inland from the East River, just across from Lower Manhattan, so the club was quite handily placed. Anyone know anything more about the label or the acts they signed to record deals ??

Back to the Peppermint Lounge again ..... ... and to the Marvels / Fabulettes one more time ...... seems that in their early days (1962/63), they used to sing all the Marvelettes tunes ........ the Marvels singing the Marvelettes hits ... guess that wasn't meant to confuse people at all !!

Hope Lorraine has been interviewed & the resulting info is included in the CD booklet notes (as Ady is thorough ... if not totally organised ... I guess he will have this all sorted). If not, perhaps Lorraine can contribute to this thread & let us know what she remembers about those times in the studio & the artists involved.

Thanks for that info. So I guess AJ was in the backing band that replaced the Soul Agents (his original RicTic backing crew, 2 of whom were from back in Cleveland). With Edwin being Detroit based (I assume) in his Motown days, seems only natural that he'd recruit a new set of guys who were from Detroit (after some of the Soul Agents got homesick & went back to Clevelandtown). Do you know who the other guys in this backing band were ?? What did they do when Edwin headed off to tour Europe (as he did on a regular basis in 68/69/70) ?? .... guess they sat at home waiting for Edwin to start gigging again in the US (though it seems that AJ himself headed into local recording studios to keep working).

Two different presses on the Irral 45 as well (one also crediting Eugene Blacknells Band & one not)

RE: While playing drums for Edwin Starr during a performance at the Apollo Theatre in New York one night, When would that have been, the late 60's / early 70's ??

The Bushwick Theatre in Brooklyn back in the day. It was closed (as a theatre / cinema) at the end of the 60's and then used as a church. The building then fell into misuse but still exists today in a slightly changed form (as a school). Bet it would have been a good place to see a 1960's soul package at.

Been mentioning a few 'neglected' Brooklyn soul venues on the thread about THE SHELLS .... but opening it up as a separate topic to allow more places to be discussed. Loads of big theatres in Brooklyn back then that had live soul shows on at times. The Brevoort Theatre seated 2300 & admitted a 'standing only' crowd as well when sold out. As the packages featured at the theatre usually stayed a week back in the early / mid 60's, then with 3 shows a night midweek & 4 a night on weekends, around 50,000 people would attend the most popular of the live shows ..... and the only advertising they did was to post up handbills on lam posts around the borough plus get radio DJ's to mention who was on. Other theatres there included the Fox, Paramount & Bushwick (pictures of some up on the SHELLS thread). But there were also lots of bars & clubs that also had live acts on. The Riverland Lounge located on the corner of Brevoort Place and Bedford (right across the street from the Brevoort Theatre) had live shows ... PLUS .... the 521 Club (1134 Fulton St) not only featured live acts but ran it's own record label !!! I'm told that there were also bars / lounges in the mid section of Fulton St, (between Franklin & Bedford). Another bar and lounge that was located on the corner of Spencer and Fulton (again this was situated between Franklin & Bedford). There was also a big bar on the corner of Bedford and Fulton, but the names of them all seem to be lost in the sands of time. Those Brooklyn based 'Dig Deeper' boys certainly have a legacy to live to. Anyone know of any more good live venues (or record label bases) in the area back then ??

A few more UK test pressing albums ........ ......Seems that there are loads of UK Decca Records test LP's(London / Brunswick stuff & the like) to chase ... ......... and they appeared in 4 different colour variations.

Another act for whom the Brevoort Theatre figured large (in their early years) was Patti Labelle & the Bluebelles ..... “I Sold My Heart to the Junkman” was performed by Patti La Belle & the Bluebelles on their 1st nationally telecast TV show 'American Bandstand' in June 1962. After the group lip-synched The Starlets’ version of “Junkman” on live TV, they became known as the faces and names behind the song. But suits were immediately filed against the group and their record label by Chicago's Starlets (the actual singers on the track), so Patti’s group had to shoot into the studio to record their 'cover' of “Junkman.” After the Bandstand performance “I Sold My Heart to the Junkman” became a Top 20 hit and the Bluebelles' ticket to the 'chitlin’ circuit' theatres. The group made its stage debut at the Brevoort Theater in Brooklyn, eventually moving up to perform at the Apollo in Harlem plus the Royal (Baltimore), Howard (DC) & Uptown (Philadelphia). Sometime later, Patti & the group were on once again on at the Brevoort, this time Jackie Wilson was topping the bill. Just before the show, Jackie & one of his friends caught Patti (18 years old) as she was heading from her dressing room in the direction of the stage. They took her off to a quiet part of the theatre's backstage area. Here, the two men set about trying to rape her (according to Patti's account of the incident at least). She screamed so loud, as they tried to overpower her, that they had to let her go and she escaped to the rescuing arms of the other ladies in her group.

Seems that there were numerous theatres around New York that hosted live R&B shows in the late 50's & through the 1960's. We only ever seem to get info on the Apollo and although that was a major soul venue throughout the 60's / 70's, it's shadow seems to put all the other venues totally in the shade. Coz of this , it is hard to track down a lot of info on the other places that staged decent live shows. For instance, most of the big Murray the K live presentations in New York were hosted at the Fox Theatre in Brooklyn. So all the top acts in 1962/63/64, etc appeared there ... that included many of the Brit invasion groups + the Motown acts & other soul outfits. As well as the Fox, the Paramount, Brevoort & the Bushwick Theatres also staged numerous live shows. The Brevoort even had room for a bigger audience than the Apollo (2300 seated + some standing). It sold out shows even though they would last 7 days and would be on 3 times on weekdays & 4 times on weekends (with a midnight show being added. So, if a presentation at the Brevoort was really popular (the Motown Revue for instance), then around 50,000 people would get in to see it over it's week long run .... not a bad turn out at all ............ ...... BUT even though these shows were major events that attracted many 1000's of soul fans, little seems to have been documented about them.

The rejuvenation of the Shells even resulted in them enjoying releases overseas (in the UK for instance) ....... They enjoyed about 4 'extra releases' due to the reactivation of their old 1957 single ..... ..... seems they never really gave up on their doo-wop style though .... I wonder what would have happened to them if they had changed over to more of a 1962 'Drifters style' sound.

The story behind the reissue of the Shells (& other) 45's in 1960 ....

I'm chasing down (if poss) the date of a big show staged at the 2300 capacity Brevoort Theatre in Brooklyn in 1961 or 1962. To assist me in my task, I plucked out the name of one of the 'lesser' acts on that bill to search the web for info. Came up with quite a bit of info on this group, Brooklyn based doo-wop outfit, the Shells. This (what later became) R&B vocal group was formed in 1956. They were noted for their typical New York doo-wop stylings. The group cut their first record, "Baby Oh Baby", in 1957 and this did OK on its release on the local Johnson label. The Shells broke up, but the following year, lead Nathaniel ‘Little Nate’ Bouknight formed a new ensemble, bringing in Bobby Nurse (first tenor), Shade Randy Alston (second tenor), Gus Geter (baritone), and Danny Small (bass). Subsequent records did nothing. Then in 1960, with the help of Time Square based record shop owner Irving Rose, the 45 was re-released. "Baby Oh Baby" in 1960 made it as a Top 20 hit on the national pop charts (it went to number 11 on Cash Box’s R&B chart). The group re-formed and they started cutting some new sides. Two are now viewed as being excellent ones, both featuring new lead Ray Jones -- "Happy Holiday" (1962) and "Deep In My Heart" (1962). However, these later Shells cuts failed to reach the charts and they again broke up. In 1966, the group came back together for one last a cappella session using the four remaining members, without a lead. However, after "Baby Oh Baby" had made the charts, the group toured for almost two years on the back of the track. The reissued 45 escaped in late September 1960 and was on the charts by December. The group 'hit the road' in April 1961 and kept going through till around early 1963. I'm after info on when their gig at the Brooklyn theatre would have taken place. It must have been sometime between May 61 and about July 62 I would say. Anyone know much about the group & it's activities back then (a doo-wop fan such as Robb maybe).

Bettye just sang "Let Me Down Easy" ...... WOW, she's still got it at her age !!!

Jools Holland's NY's Eve TV show has just started and he's introduced Bettye LaVette & Bobby Womack who are in the studio. Don't know if they will both be singing or just chatting but guess they will both sing something.

I'd guess the same thing Steve. Mind you, if I'd been working for a record label and a few test pressings had crossed my desk, there's no way that they would have been thrown away.

When "Agent OO Soul" hit from day one of it's release ..... Edwin had to instantly get himself a backing band & start to play gigs .... ... so he went straight back to Cleveland and recruited some guys he knew from the Futuretones days. Here's the guys he got to back him ..... from left to right in the picture: Victor Stubblefield (trumpet; Cleveland), Tyrone Hite (drums), Anthony Hawkins (guitar), V.C. Veasey (bass) and Gus Hawkins (sax: Cleveland). This outfit backed Edwin during his Ric-Tic period (before the pair got homesick & heading back to Cleveland). Edwin's big hit was of course "AGENT OO SOUL", I've no idea how he came up with the name the SOUL AGENTS for the band !!!

Not long now till the 'Spyder'man hits these shores ............

CHEERS ...... so it seems that there must be copies of Test Pressing LP's of many UK London / Brunswick label albums out there.