Roburt

Decks, speakers & amplification moved ahead at the fast pace from the late 60's thru to the mid 70's. Of course, not every venue kept up with the times & some had sound systems that were crap. The 'power' (wattages on the amplification) of systems in the mid 60's was quite low but I don't recall the sound in clubs such as the Mojo, Nite Owl or Wheel being that low-fi (but I was young at the time & it was a very long time ago). Of course, being small cellar type rooms meant you didn't really need massive wattages.

Beg to differ to your closing statement. WORST YEARS FOR NS QUALITY >> 75, 76, 77, 78 ..... obviously some good sounds were discovered & played, but in general the quality was sh*te. Decent stuff started to take over again in the early 80's (Clifton Halls) & continued thru the Stafford / 100 Club years.

Drop the Torch spot BUT REPLACE IT WITH a Clifton Halls section. It was the Clifton Halls that drove the scene forward in the early 80's (& helped bring the Casino era to an end).

Cleveland himself thought it was a priceless 45 ...

A fascinating tale that brings to the surface many underhand things that have occurred in the music biz down the years. Bobby Sanders was certainly an operator who knew his way round most aspects of the music biz. No doubt (in common with the likes of Don Robey), he used his knowledge / power to his own advantage on many occasions. I know there were numerous members of groups who were sent out to perform as the Younghearts / New Younghearts who had a low opinion of Bobby S. But then, no doubt in HIS early years in the biz, Bobby was ripped off himself at times. As they say .... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Maybe he thought he was due a few 'breaks' later on in his career to make up for earlier events when he had been ripped off. It could well be that the Cool Sounds, being a Bobby Sanders managed group, followed the same path as the Younghearts / New Younghearts and had an ever changing line up. From their 1969 Pulsar 45, thru their Pick-A-Hit 45 and onto their 3 x WB 45's ... those releases escaping over a 3 year period, the group could have had numerous different members. WB in the period 1970 to 74 seemed to put out a real mix of assorted pop, folk, rock & soul, with no real direction to their release strategy. Also, many singles got a release but didn't seem to get any promotion at all. A WB promotions man, visiting radio stns to gain plays on the companies latest releases must have had an almost impossible job -- did he spend all his time at pop radio stns who had the largest audiences (though few of them would playlist the label's obscure soul releases) or did he also visit some big R&B stns to push just the label's 'black' releases with them. I have no idea how the promotion dept at WB was staffed during those years & how those staff worked at the time. It would be fascinating to find out more about this subject. From 1970 to 75, all the major labels (CBS, WB, RCA, Capitol, United Artists, etc) were signing up soul artists from indie black labels, but many had no idea how to market those acts effectively. The likes of Atlantic, ABC, Phillips / Mercury and more had been servicing the R&B / black market for a good while & in many cases, seemed to make a better job of things. Then just as they had an established roster of soul acts; disco took over. I know a few 'strange things' surrounded the 1973 WB 45 release credited to Lou Ragland (Since You Said You'd Be Mine), not least the fact that it was recorded by the group Lou led at the time & not by a solo Lou.. . . Reprise was a WB label & they seemed to follow a similar haphazard release policy to WB itself. Singles were released by the label on the likes of the Hypnotics (an outside production by Kent Washburn) in 73, on Barbara Lewis (an outside production) also in 73 and by Life (an outside production) in 74 ... BUT no effort at all seemed to go into promoting these releases or gaining decent sales figures on any of them. Why bother signing these outside productions up if you were just gonna let them all 'wither on the vine'.

So why are you bothering to comment if you didn't even watch the show ? How can you know what it was like if you didn't watch it ? Listened to most of tonight's show & quite enjoyed it. What's the name of the NZ lady that's done a cover of "If This Is Love" ?

The vocals on display on the night @ the RAH were far better than any of the original artists could have produced at the event (as many are dead, whilst all the other's voices would have changed so much down the years that they wouldn't have been able to reproduce their own old performances anymore). AN EXAMPLE OF THIS ... I brought Lou Ragland over to the UK to tour in 1990. One of the gigs he did was at the Old Trout (?) in Windsor. The crowd there wanted his old 60's / 70's songs but they also wanted his London 2 Step anthem "Makin Love". He sang over backing tapes but still managed to do a good job. Some guys approached me afterwards & said "Why was he miming to "Making Love" .. he wasn't I said ... but it sounded exactly like the record, vocally & instrumentally, whereas the other tracks didn't. That's coz he cut "Making Love" for his own label, so still had the original backing track available & he only recorded the song 5 years ago, so his vocal delivery are still the same. The other songs were to new backing tracks he'd made and his voice has changed over the 24 or so years since he originally cut the tracks. They went away but I still don't think they believed me.

Way Out's Joan Bias also sang for us @ our Vegas soul nite (Lou looked her up; she was living in a trailer park outside Vegas) ...

We did have a great time. Got in trouble with the wife though as she was hoping for at least a couple of nights when I would take just her to a decent restaurant. As it was, the other soulies kept saying ... you know XXXX, get in touch & see if he's / his group is doing a show. If so, you can take us along !!! So that's what kept happening, instead of a quiet meal for two. PLUS, I kept getting in trouble for writing out the days events after we'd returned to the hotel each night, had to do my scribblings in the room's bathroom in the end, so the light would be off in the bed area. Met some great folk on the trip & made a few friends for life. Best Brit guys among the throng; Bernie O'Brien who helped organise things, Dave 'Snapper' Needham (his illness had kicked in & he kept saying I'll slow you all down, coz I'm feeling weak, but ne never did. The other lads played tricks on him though; at the Motown Cafe he bought loads of stuff ... returned to show us it all .. another lad said ... did you get the Brit's discount (there wasn't one) & off he went back into their shop to claim a refund. The Motown Cafe was struggling a bit (numbers wise), so when I'd made contact with them to say a whole bunch of Brits will be in next week, they laid out the red carpet. We got an extensive backstage tour, were introduced to the places male & female groups and then allowed up on stage with them (as dancers / backing singers). Donny's own John Phillips (& Carol) were also fine folk. One of the other top guys was Glen Hunter (Macce Lad .. R.I.P.) ... we had arranged for tickets in the front row for the Isley Bros show. Angela Winbush was with an Isley at the time & also performing on the show. On a romantic number, she crouched down on the edge of the stage, took Glen's hand & sang the whole song to him. Needless to say, next morning I had to take him to the nearest CD shop so he could buy a copy of her album. Glen was also a massive Star Trek fan, so he sneaked off one day to go to the Star Trek Experience @ the Hilton Hotel.

Going back to PROVE YOURSELF A LADY ... this is the only mention the 45 got in Billboard mag (early June 67). ... the 45 was in a listing of new 45 releases ... but in the pop section, not in the R&B section ... GO FIGURE ... other 45 releases that week (competing for your $ / £) ... Arthur Conley, Darrell Banks, Exciters, Fabulous Pack (Harlem Shuffle), Terry Knight (who was employing Lou Ragland to back him, after he'd sacked the Fab Pack), Ben E King, Major Lance, Billy Butler, James Brown, Emperors, Spinners, Bobby Wells, Billy Harner, Checkmates Ltd, Willie Hightower, Peoples Choice, Inspirations (all listed in the pop section) + the 7 x 45's reviewed in the actual R&B section ... If anyone had picked up on James Bounty's 45 from that, they were a lot better man than I was ...

I don't dispute your opinion on SLOW FIZZ. Needless to say, I never heard it played at a niter / soul club in the time I owned the 45. If I had, then the beat may have outweighed my dislike for it's lyrics. I wasn't a Casino goer & lots of what got played there did little for me, so maybe I would still have had a low opinion of the track. I never liked many 100 mph stompers, being in my mid twenties by the time Wigan sounds went big. PLUS I was always a massive deep soul fan & always preferred tracks where the tempo wasn't too fast to allow the singer to inject feeling / passion into their delivery. Also, I was always a 100% collector. I did DJ occasionally but never really bought anything specifically to DJ with. I was buying from the likes of Randys Rec Shop & Ray Averys in the US in the 60's (+ from F L Moores from when he started up in Leighton Buzzard), so got a few import only biggies 'ahead of the curve' at decent prices (Kittens on Chess, Invitations, Art Freeman, Fuller Bros, etc.) but I'd gotten lucky with lots of those coz mates put me on to them early on.

Don't forget there was no internet, very little UK knowledge of small US indie soul labels, no knowledge at all of James Bounty or the record label back then. PYaL was James 1st release & Compass (though it had been in existence since early 67) hadn't yet gained a UK outlet when James' 45 was released. That was remedied when Helena Ferguson's "Where Is The Party" escaped here late in 67. I bought a UK copy of HF's London release but it didn't set me off on a quest to track down other releases on the label. I guess if I'd have seen a Compass 45 on a UK dealers auction mailing list back then, I'd have bid low on it (as was my policy back in the late 60's / early 70's on blind bids on unknown soul stuff). We were 'young & dumb' back then, had little spare cash & didn't even have the knowledge or cash to buy BILLBOARD mag to scan their entries on soul release. If we had, we'd have seen PYaL listed as a new 45 release (3/7/67) and then James getting a mention in a piece about Compass Records (about them picking up the Helena F 45 for release -- 29/7/67).. James 45 sold in small amounts & so 3 years later the 45 would have been included on record warehouse lists for a few cents a copy ... BUT we wouldn't have known to add it to our orders. No doubt a few copies were in the UK by 69/70/71 but I guess the guys that had them weren't Wheel goers & therefore not able to say on the night ... I KNOW WHAT THIS IS, IT'S .... PLUS there's a big difference in what sounds were appreciated at the Wheel and what would become big at the Casino (though I'm sure JB's 45 would have gone big if it's ID had been known instantly & numerous copies were therefore imported into the UK back then). . . . AN INSTANCE OF THIS ... I loved the Sapphires "Gotta Have Your Love" from it's HMV release and loved much soul released on ABC in the States. An auction list arrived with a different Sapphires 45 on it (another ABC release). I bid 2/11 or a similar sum & won it. I had no idea what I'd bought, it arrived, I played it and didn't like it. The lyrics were crap, banal & senseless (by 69/70, dance lyric songs were out of favour as old hat). So it went in my 'rejects box" and I sold it to a guy at college around 12 months later (at a profit). THUS I had dumped an early copy of "Slow Fizz" that had made it to the UK. Never regretted the fact either (though I did wish I'd kept it till it was a big sound & I could have got a lot more for my copy).

That Joe Wilson 45 was the 1st time I'd seen any release from Malaco.

Isn't it an Israeli LP ? ... believe JB (sock it to em) was the 1st person to get a copy in the UK.

The Inciters, who backed up Brenda Holloway at the LA show, are still around (though no doubt with an evolved line-up). In fact, this weekend they are doing a show with Ruby Andrews ...

I did Eddie (though only 1 or 2 of the guys at Cleggy were either Sam, Erv or Tom -- Sam Culley was deffo @ Cleggy). I told him I'd seen them & he seemed embarrassed. He said they turned up at a UK club one night & saw that the Isley Brothers were the live act according to posters outside. GREAT, he said, WE'RE FRIENDS WITH THOSE GUYS ... imagine his surprise when told they were the Isley Bros.

And yet more ...

Yet more pics (just scans of old photo prints, so not the greatest quality reproductions ...

Some more pics ... mostly from the LA show ...

Some pics to go with the text ...

I put all the above in at a decent resolution, no idea (apart from downloading them) how to view them full size ... Here's an extract from page 1 ... same resolution ...

As 25 years have passed since this event took place, thought I'd post up about it. The trip was planned via the net & an old (long gone) soul fan group that included Brits, Yanks & assorted others. It took quite a bit of planning, some negotiations with the airline agents (we initially talked with Virgin Atlantic who were planning to start a London - Vegas service but that proposal fell through), regular contact with Lou Ragland in Vegas (to organise a live show / venue there), lots of work by Nancy Yahiro (re the live show in LA & coach booking to get us there), much input from Bernie O'Brien and lots of help / encouragement from Greg Tormo. It all came off, albeit with a few hitches along the way ... but I believe everyone involved had a great time. I documented events as we went along (much to the annoyance of my wife, who's sleep patterns were interrupted by my nightly scribblings) and had it published in SKM (#34) on our return. I didn't return to the UK straight away. We visited our son & his wife in Hoboken on leaving Vegas. That gave Greg T the chance to take me along to a NT record fair, while again was most enjoyable. Enough waffle, here are the details of the trip ... glad I documented it at the time as down the 25 years, much of the detail has slipped from my memory ...

Two radio shows to listen to ...

After Tobi cut "Time Will Pass You By" she headed back to Toronto. In 1969, she was hired to play the parts of Dionne (the part played by Melba Moore in the Broadway show) & Abraham Lincoln in the Canadian stage version of HAIR which ran for around 18 months @ the Royal Alexandre Theatre in the city. This gave her an even higher profile, led to her getting a record deal with Nimbus Records in 1970. With the label, she had a hit 45, it's sales leading to the single also gaining a US release.

From the info in the attached video, TWPYB as a song was started in 1965 and completed 12 months later when John Rhys got help from Dino & Nick. John & Edwin Starr were writing together for the Sunliners in 65 & that group's Golden World 45 came out in Oct 65, after Edwin's 1st Ric Tic 45 had hit US shops in June 65 (Agent 00-Soul entering the US R&B charts at the end of July). So John Rhys was writing songs for Golden World acts in summer 65. Golden World set up the Volkano label as an outlet for John's work and that label's 1st release was in Nov 65. Again that points me to think that John would have been working on TWPYB in the 2nd half of 1965. So that means the song TWPYB would have been finished & ready to record by sometime in 1966 (late summer to the end of 66 I'd guess). It seems to have been recorded by Tobi Lark late in 1967 or very early in 1968 over on the US east coast (the 45 gaining release in Feb 68). Tobi had moved to Montreal in 1966 & made a name for herself performing in local clubs there before starring at the Expo 67 exhibition (which opened in April 67). From there she went to Toronto, before being hired to do some tours of the US east coast late in 67 and in 68. So the song must have sat there for around 12 months with no takers to record it. With Tobi having left Detroit and relocated to Montreal before or around the same time the song was completed. So how come she was the person who ended up with the song and the only one who got to record it.