Roburt

QUOTE OFF THE SITE .......... I was travelling home from work one time and took the scenic route. The roads are usually quiet but there was a car in front that had the plate N5OUL or something very similar. It had a load of "Keep the Faith" stickers on etc. We went along over hill and dale for about 10 miles and then the road widened out at a junction and we ended up alongside. He looked over and I went to do the fist gesture, but because I am a fcuktard, the way I did it looked like I wanted to fight him. He wound the window down and gave me a "You-f*cking-what?" look. Yes, white skinhead. I started laughing and did "The fist" properly, and he laughed. He was lost. .......he had Kegsy summed up instantly then, the guys been lost & in the wilderness for years. He most definitely got lost for this years Cleggy Weekender.

I prefer the guy that kicks in at 29 mins 15 secs ........ You made em laugh and left them feelin glad, You made em cry and you left them feelin sad ......... go on with the show ...

Sam & Dave were infamous for their relationship. They didn't talk to each other for years, even though they were still performing as a duo for some of that time. They were always 'fighting and cursing' when they did get around to being in each other's company ....... ......... https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/rush-molloy-hold-soul-man-sam-moore-b-duo-sam-dave-article-1.320931 But did they ever end up having a fight on stage at any shows ?

Luckily there is very very little fighting at UK NS events ...... this calm atmosphere is not repeated at Hip-Hop events across in the US where it seems pulling a gun or thumping someone comes with the territory .......... see here ........... https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/rick-ross-young-jeezy-history-violence-awards-375382 But violence at music shows didn't just start to happen when macho hip-hoppers wanted a bit of extra publicity. Such events have happened since the dawn of R&R / R&B. In the UK, rockers used to smash up cinemas / theatres and in the mid 60's mod / rocker rucks at the coast were commonplace. Luckily guns don't figure much in UK incidents, however they do across in the US. It seems that back in St Louis in 1957 Roy Hamilton avoided a stampede by continuing to perform on a show staged at the Kiel Auditorium even though bullets were flying over his head ........... I know some artists (Chuck Berry, Wilson Pickett) were famous for having a gun handy at concerts to ensure that the promoter paid them for their work and no doubt lots of gang fights kicked off at dances/ concerts in many big US cities ..... Any other incidents at R&B / soul shows come to mind ? (Al Greene was shot by a female fan in the 70's but that was away from a venue)

It was a Gwen Glenn Enterprises release. That was the outfit within Motown run by Gwendolyn Gordy Fuqua (Berry's sister) after her divorce from Harvey Fuqua. I think it was a bit of a vanity project to keep Gwen occupied and happy but not many of their releases got much of a push (some of the High Inergy cuts being the exception).

With the internet these days, it can be quite easy to chase up facts on an old record or artist. The 'back room' people behind the music (label owners, studio engineers, producers, arrangers, studio musicians) are much harder to track facts down on. Using a common name for a group also causes many problems. One such named Baltimore outfit was the Persians. Put 'the Persians' into a search engine and you get 1000's of hits about the people who lived in the middle east many years ago and very little that relate to music groups. On top of that, there seem to have been a number of outfits that recorded under that name. The Baltimore group named the Persians had 45's out on ABC, GWP and Capitol between 1968 and 1972. None of their sessions seem to have been cut in Baltimore and the group existed before and way after the period during which they had record contracts. So 'researching' them is a minefield only made easier due to the fact that they re-formed in the 90's and so put out a potted bio back then to assist them in landing new bookings. Their first recording session (& quite a few after that) was overseen by George Kerr so its highly likely that lots of their studio sessions were undertaken in the New York / New Jersey / Philly region BUT establishing just which studio was used for each session is a nightmare (unless like Ace / Kent you have access to the original session logs). With George Kerr being such a 'back room 'heavyweight in the recording biz over many years, you would think that he would have received numerous mentions in say Billboard mag back in the 1960's / 70's. HOWEVER, that doesn't seem to be the case. So researching George's exploits requires quite a bit of detective work.

The use of visuals in books also seems to be a bit of a minefield. Obviously a photo taken by a 'celebrity or paparazzi photographer' has to be licensed (with fees paid) before it can be used by anyone else 'for profit'. But what about promo artist photos, label scans, record company ads placed in a music mag, club flyers or newspaper ads for concerts. Who owns those and holds the intellectual rights covering their use. The usage of an ad published in say an old edition of Cashbox or Blues & Soul will in theory be copyrighted by that publication even though it would have been the label's publicity department that drew it up originally and that ad could have been placed in a number of publications at the time it was drawn up. A book published in the recent past seemed to lift loads of its 'visuals' from Blues & Soul (page after page seemingly being reproduced just as in the original mags). Obviously some deal was done to allow this to happen but I don't really understand the logistics of such a move. Anyone out there investigated (from a legal point of view) just what 'old material' can be used (as its in the 'public domain') and what has to be granted permission before it can be utilised ? If permission has to be sought, just who do you approach to gain such permission (surely a record company needn't be asked if a label scan or copy of an old promo photo or old record ad can be printed in a new publication) ? It is obvious that you can't just copy an old newspaper / magazine article and re-print that in a new publication. The same goes for using an audio clip of a record or a video clip from a film or TV programme. But when it comes to the use of other 'visuals', I'm still highly confused about what the ground rules are.

JM just got £100 for the Bay Sound 45 by Soul Clinic ("So Sharp c/w No One Loves Me Anymore").

Yes Steve I know about the book & have chatted (on-line) with the guy who produced it. As far as I recall, there is little in there about the recording studios (its mainly about the local acts; soul & pop).

RE: Hi Roburt how about the pulse label the sound of Baltimore with Doc & the Echoes " Why Wonder " & " Million dollar bill " Yep they were a decent outfit who got their name because they had started life as Tommy Vann's backing band -- Tommy Vann and the Echoes. So when he went off & got some new guys to work with, they were so well known locally that they decided to just become 'And The Echoes'. Tommy himself plus 4 of the 5 guys in 'And The Echoes' were white but that didn't stop them loving / performing soul stuff. Here they are (without Tommy Vann) ............

RE: Clay Hunt seems to have maintained his singing career right down the years (his first 45 release being a Motown cover on Kapp) but I don't know of any other records released on him unless he's the guy who was cutting for Polydor in the early 80's .......... The Clay Hunt who recorded for Kapp & then Bay Sound in the 60's is obviously the same guy who had the LP 'Part One' + 2 singles out on Polydor in 1981. Clay's manager in the mid to late 70's was a guy called Sonny Gordon. Sonny was also Peaches & Herbs (Herb Fame) manager at the time. 'Peaches' in the 60's had been ex Sweet Things (Date) lead singer Francine Barker. When the Sweet Things were recording (65), Freddie Perren was a DC area school teacher who wrote arrangements for the group and so got to know their manager, Sonny Gordon. Encouraged by his music biz success, Freddie quit his teaching job and went on tour with Jerry Butler. He ended up in LA and became a member of Motown writing team 'the Corporation'. A few years later, he struck out on his own, working with Tavares, the Sylvers, Revelation, Minnie Ripperton, Gloria Gaynor, etc. When he started his own MVP Record label, he signed Peaches & Herbs to a deal as he remembered Herb from the old days. This brought him back in touch with Sonny Gordon and so he also signed Clay Hunt to a deal with MVP (via Polydor).

Baltimore helped kick off the doo-wop group explosion in the 50's, had loads of fine soul acts in the 60's plus a great live soul club / theatre scene back then ..... BUT .... it struggled to set up / support local recording studios and record labels during those times and into the early 70's. Lots of local soul artists headed out to New York, Philly, DC and the like to sign record deals and cut tracks but a few stayed local to kick off their recording careers. Rufus Mitchell's Ru-Jac was the local label that lasted the longest and made the most impact but lots of their stuff was actually cut in DC area studios. Lou Mills (Louis R Mills Jr) opened his North Baltimore based studio set-up as Recording International at East Cold Spring Lane and the Alameda (not far from the Morgan State Uni campus) in 1958. Lou's outfits then seemed to use the names Recording Inc. & Record Manufacturers Inc. before he later renamed his studio as Flite 3. Lou was highly regarded locally as a recording engineer and soon became known as 'Baltimore's Godfather of Sound'. The first big cuts to be laid down at the studio seemed to be by locally based Al Brown and the Tune Toppers. They used the studio in 1960 to cut "The Madison", which after being picked up by Amy made the US R&B Top 20 in May / June 1960. Syng McGowan cut most of his tracks (released on Hope Records) there from around November 1965 through to the end of 1966. Betty Sandler Feldman (Bella Flowers) owned / ran Hope Records. Top sound engineer George Massenburg started out working as a sound engineer / producer at Lou's studio in the late 60's and he worked on lots of the tracks released on Bay Sound Records. Bay Sound Records put out good stuff by the Bleu Lights, the Chaumonts, Clay Hunt & the Fuzzy Kane Trio. Kenny Hamber did a show with Clay Hunt at Annapolis High School back then and was blown away with the guy's vocal ability. Clay seems to have maintained his singing career right down the years (his first 45 release being a Motown cover on Kapp) but I don't know of any other records released on him unless he's the guy who was cutting for Polydor in the early 80's. Another Baltimore studio where local artists cut in the late 60's was Accent Sound Studios which was located at 48 West Biddle Street. By all accounts this was a basic facility that had a 'homely feel'. Eddie Drennon (NJ / DC based back then) cut Baltimore act Mickey & His Mice there in 1968 and their version of "Little Green Apples" made the local charts for an extended period after being picked up by Bell. The success of that 45 enabled local promoter Marty Cantine to start up Marti Records (the label putting out Mickey & His Mice's follow up 45). The Marti label was associated with Roc-Ker Records for a while. However most of the 45 cuts made by Baltimore's Frankie & the Spindles that came out on the Roc-Ker label seemed to be cut in Philly and were put out via Philly based Phil LA of Soul Records and then via a deal with Amy / Mala / Bell. Frankie & the Spindles 45 version of "Have You Seen Her" (Funny "A") made some noise in 71 until Brunswick relented and allowed the Chi-Lites original version to escape on a single. Strangely, Frankie had first called his group Frankie & the Spinners but despite the national profile of the Tri Phi / Motown outfit, he was still using that name on live shows as late as summer 1968. Dontee Records was run by Joe Tate who later started Jotee Records. His main artists were the Summits, the Contemplations (who became Rock Candy) and the Blendels. In the early 70's, they seemed to cut their tracks at DB Sound Studio (where was this located ?). There was another basic recording studio located down by the Inner Harbor area but I can't recall the exact location or owner at present. Can anyone add much to the above information or provide details of other Baltimore studios in the 1960's (the city had a few more decent ones by the 70's including one built on a barge anchored in Baltimore harbor).

"Gimme a Little Sign" always was a great song !!!

Just noticed that my head appears bottom left of the screen at 1min 55 secs into the clip ...... you just can't keep me out of things !!!

A bit about the end of All Platinum / Sugar Hill Records ......... https://www.northjersey.com/arts_entertainment/music/Sugar_Hill_Records_tax_issues_latest_chapter_in_Englewood_hip-hop_familys_rock_history.html

You never know, but this might be the guy .............. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z0VdBGK8XI

The above label scan has allowed me to solve the identity problem here ...... ... seeing that the song writer was called Samuel Mickles, I did a bit of checking and found this info on a Toledo based 60's singer ........ ........ the guy was (is?) called Samuel Mickles aka Sweet Sammy J Mickles and he was a mainstay on the 60's Toledo music scene ....

By 1981 Richard was playing a much classier selection (IMO) that included loads of great Modern Soul tracks. I think he was just about to cut his ties (buying wise) with John A @ Soul Bowl & he had started DJing on Radio Hallam in Sheffield. I much prefer the stuff he was playing in the early 80's than most of the tracks listed in the 1st post of this thread.

Unless his name was something like Sammy J Kaplan / Sammy J Ward or similar (I.E. the J was his middle initial). Of course, he could also have (usually) been a group lead singer (with the Earthquakes or similar) who just had the one 45 out as a solo artist.

Don El Records was Philly based & owned by real estate man Donald White. His labels flourished from about 1960 through to around 1967. The company was based out of 2020 Ridge Ave, Philly for some time (62 to 66 at least). He had three labels Don El, Chestnut and Alpha. Chestnut was primarily used for country music which he also liked. Wally Osbourne & Bobby Martin were his main producers. Artists signed to his labels included Eddie Holman, the Celestrals, Bobby Holland, the Daychords, Little Grier, Lady Fox & the Foxettes, Fluffy Falana & more. The Celestrals started on Don El & transferred across to Alpha. No real idea who Ronnie & Joyce were though, obviously a Philly based pairing. see here …..https://www.discogs.com/artist/Celestrals%2C+The & here …. https://www.45cat.com/label/alpha-records-philadelphia

Bettye LaVette is also on at the Stamford Bridge club ........ https://underthebridge.co.uk/events/bettye-lavette/

I've been told that Winfield Parker was just over in the UK but I don't recall seeing anything about him visiting these shores. Has he just been here & if so, did he perform anywhere while here ?

A show Marva undertook in Baltimore in 1967 ...........

Dunstable (California Ballroom) & Portsmouth (Birdcage & more) were great for live acts in the mid to late 60's. A great web site about the Portsmouth scene (especially the Birdcage) .... https://michaelcooper.org.uk/C/birdcage.htm

Back in the 60's / early to mid 70's most towns / cities had good soul clubs. Most didn't host nighters and many didn't feature live acts but the sounds spun were good. Places such as Hull, Bridlington, Scarboro, Goole, Grimsby, Doncaster, Tadcaster, Sheffield, Rotherham, Leeds, Worksop, Castleford, Bradford, Dewsbury, Retford, Nottingham & more had great clubs that catered for the mod then soul crowd. A great venue in Dony was the Attic (Co-op Ballroom) which used to host great soul nites that featured fine live acts. With the passage of time, skinheads took over & reggae music was also introduced and the club eventually faded away .... but in its time it was a great place.