Roburt

Two venues in Baltimore in April 1948 that had visiting acts on. The Royal Theatre was featuring the Ravens as their top of the bill act, whilst the Astoria Musical Bar was playing host to jazz outfits like the Gene Redd Trio. The Ravens would have been touring at the time on the back of their 1st big hit "Write Me A Letter". If this was a doo-wop track it was a very primitive one.

Well I don't know how most small studios got everyone involved on their recording sessions without breakin the bank, but at least one southern based studio made use of the kids in the local college band to ensure brass, strings & the like were in evidence on their recordings. These visiting players supplemented the studio house band. Backing singers weren't usually a problem as loads of guys (gals) looking to land themselves a session would first help out on other projects to get some studio experience / impress a producer.

I'll have to throw the Dells 1956 version of "Oh What a Night" into the mix for consideration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ozQT8yQXA

I think we need input from RobbK or someone with similar knowledge of doo-wop tracks. I'd personally be more interested in which individual tracks to the overall sound onwards to early soul as I guess it wasn't the output of just one or two groups that progressed things back then. Lots of times (in the 50's, 60's & 70's) a group would make a certain type of track coz that's what their record company wanted from them, rather than because it was what the individual group members had a burning desire to cut ..... but of course that wasn't always the case. THEN AGAIN, it could have been a singer / songwriter moving a sound forward (guys like Curtis Mayfield & Smokey Robinson spring to mind) or it could have been a producer that was moving forward with the acts he was working with. I'd say there's no one easy simple answer to this question.

Sonny Til & the Orioles were well established before the end of the 40's and are credited as one of the groups that helped set the doo-wop standard. They were still going & making 'up to date' records into the late 60's (THOUGH they were followers and not leaders in setting trends by then). Lots of early to mid 50's groups maintained a cutting edge sound into the 60's (& some even into the 70's) .... the likes of Lee Andrews & the Hearts, Hank Ballard & the Midnighters, the Meadowlarks / Larks plus Little Anthony & the Imperials spring to mind. The Drifters were around for years & years as well but as totally different outfits adopted the name, I don't think they can really count.

Sonny Til alternated between performing as a solo act (with the likes of Virgie Till as a member of his review) and performing with a set of Orioles. If he went out as a solo singer (with backing vocalists) he kept more of the club fee for himself I believe, if he went out as Sonny Til & the Orioles he (no doubt) had to pay the other guys a bit more. I do know that membership of the Orioles was ever-changing through to the mid 60's. Sonny even 'sacked' the entire group (one time being as early as 1955) and recruited whole new outfits to join him as the Orioles. It's my understanding that if a decent 'Oldies show' tour invite came Sonny Til's way, he would assemble a set of Orioles and take the booking (as the booking would be for the group and the fee for the whole tour a decent amount). Can't say I know when he (& the group) first started doing the 'oldies shows; circuit. Marv Goldberg's site is just about the best for info on early black groups and their histories. He has put up a 4/5 part series on the Orioles and that gives full details of how things went for Sonny & the other guys through to the 60's and beyond ........ https://www.uncamarvy.com/Orioles/orioles3.html That states .......... Sonny put together a new Orioles group ..... they got an engagement at the Apollo Theater (for an "Old Goldies" show) that began on September 29, 1961. The other acts were Little Anthony, Shirley & Lee, the Teenagers, Little Joe, the Valentines, Charlie & Ray, and Robert & Johnny. I would guess that the show was just about the first 'Oldies Show' that the Orioles performed on. Sonny & whoever else was an Oriole back then still tried to continue on as a everyday group though and kept on with gigs during which they would perform (other acts) recent hits as well.

EGVO had started out as a soul band (beat group ?) that toured the UK extensively. When mainstream UK clubs started moving over to a less soul dominated playlist around 67/68, the outfit changed its name & became more progressive / syc rock (or whatever name that genre goes under). As the 'new' EGVO they soon had a big club following and so no doubt were signed to an album deal by CBS and placed on Direction. It's likely their LP tracks were cut quickly (I don't actually know if this is true or not) and so they could easily have used songs that they had performed in their soul days (did they, I don't know their LP tracks). I do know they were a popular live draw at clubs like the 100 Club and Marquee back in those times.

A 60's outing from Little Hooks & the Kings -- "Jerk Train" ............. BTW, Little Hooks (Adolphus Holcomb) had been with the group since their early days ........... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_42jZRcpkA

Lots of doo-wop groups (or their members) had long music careers as age didn't seem of paramount importance to record companies back then. Lots of groups from that era reinvented themselves though, with new names, new stage outfits and different stage shows (lots just including a few old hits in their act plus lots of Motown / recent soul hit songs). So lots of artists such as Sonny Til (who started out in 1947) had mainstream music careers right through to the 70's and then got on the 'Oldies Show' bandwagon that grew from those times. One instance of a group carrying on for many years was a Baltimore outfit who started out as Bobby Hall & the Kings in 1950. Group politics soon played a major part though and 4 years later the group had a new lead singer / leader and were known just as the Kings (though they also had a record out as the Ramblers). By the 60's they had morphed into Little Hooks & the Kings and though the members took day jobs they continued on as a performing outfit. They cut more tracks in 1972 and funky soul tracks such as "Give The Drummer Some More" were a world away from their doo-wop roots ........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu01cO0qTdk

My box has arrived (via Amazon). I put in a pre-order some time ago and my box is #1162 of 2000. As lots of other retail outlets have pre-ordered this box set, I would bet that 75%+ of them have already left the Universal-Island warehouse. My guess is every one will have gone by Xmas, so don't delay if you want a box for yourself.

My box has also arrived (via Amazon). I put in a pre-order some time ago and my box is #1162 of 2000. As lots of other retail outlets have pre-ordered this box set, I would bet that 75%+ of them have already left the Universal-Island warehouse. My guess is every one will have gone by Xmas, so don't delay if you want a box for yourself. Vinyl & labels look fine, though nowt like an old UK black label Tamla Motown 45. The sleeves are old style too but with added logos down each side (so making them different to old 'orange & white' uns).

Love it Greg. Simple instrumentation and pure cool vocals. When does it date from (it has the feel of one of those 70's gospel tracks that took it's inspiration from 60's soul) ?

AND ....... as half of Bob & Earl he helped make just about the biggest anthem of 1960's UK mod clubs -- "HARLEM SHUFFLE".

I know very little about the history of doo-wop groups and (like you) until the last few years generally didn't find time to listen to the tracks such groups cut back in the day. However, I have spent time researching the Baltimore black music scene of the late 1940's and 1950's. Baltimore always had a great entertainment scene, boasting numerous vibrant clubs and one of the big chitlin-circuit theatres; the Royal. The strange thing about the Baltimore club scene back then was that, although a lot of the best early doo-wop groups were from the city, the club scene for the most part stuck with jazz acts right through the 40's & 50's. Even when local groups had national success, they would only really play the city's theatres on a regular basis. The local star groups included the likes of the Swallows, (Sonny Til &) the Orioles & the Cardinals. National outfits such as the Drifters (Clyde McPhatters incarnation), the Flamingos, the Ravens, the Spaniels and the Four Fellows came to play venues such as the Royal Theatre and Astor Theatre (even the Vocaleers got to play the Royal in summer 53). So local fans got to see all the top doo-wop acts but the likes of Bill Doggett, Don Gardner, Sonny Stitt, Earl Bostic and all the local jazz outfits held sway in local clubs for the most part. The big local & national doo-wop groups inspired many kids on the street corners of the city's projects to try their hand at harmony singing and so a 2nd wave of groups such as the Plants followed on. No doubt there are a number of doo-wop group tracks that laid the foundation for the acts & sounds that followed in the 60's BUT it would need recommendations from the likes of RobbK to highlight which recordings back then helped set the scene for the creative explosion that came in the 60's. It would be good to learn which tracks turned out to be the most pivotal in moving black music forward during that decade or so.

I know Bob, but he did start out in Norfolk ....... PLUS ....the article makes mention of his work for Chess in Chicago.

Anyone on here make it along to these recent talks ........... https://www.norfolkblackhistorymonth.org.uk/events/2013/how-norfolk-got-the-groove.html Seems like they would have been quite informative, putting a different spin on the the local Norfolk (UK) soul scene back then.

The media in Virginia seems (in the last few years) to have woken up to the sterling work local soul singers & musicians put in back in the day ........ ..... here's a decent piece on Daddy G -- Gene Barge ............. https://www.virginialiving.com/arts-events/arts/a-nite-with-daddy-g/

Can answer my own question from above ................ ........ I read through pieces on Charlie McClendon & the Magnificents that I have since posted up on a thread under that title ........ ... on one of them it states that Charlie & the group did play gigs at clubs such as the Peppermint Lounge and the Top Hat.

Another good on-line piece .......... the Charlie McClendon Story .......... https://virginiafolklife.org/from-the-field/charlie-mcclendon/about/ An extract from the above ......... they booked Charlie at ...... makeshift Virginia Beach dancehalls that catered to young crowds, like the Peppermint Lounge and the Club Top Hat. ........ so I can answer the question I asked on another thread as obviously Charlie McClendon & the Magnificents did play gigs in the Virginia Beach clubs that catered for the Beach Music scene crowd back in the day.

I know this is a very old thread, but there's now lots of info on this outfit up on the net so I thought I'd resurrect it. https://www.vmsoul.com/magnificent.html https://www.virginialiving.com/the-norfolk-sound_1/ https://vimeo.com/56769567 "Put Me Down Easy" ......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o19Ew-VYMJo "Need Love" ......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kZ6SfdOP90 "Gonna Hate Myself in the Morning" ......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OxdjPbzmlc Charlie McClendon talking ........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MENPlQzBabc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV53-A2-Si0

Done a bit of research in the past on the Norfolk music scene and knew that Bill Deal & the Rhondels figured large locally BUT never realised that there was a thriving Beach Music Scene just down the road from Norfolk that BD&Rhondels were almost a permanent fixture on as well. Seems that Virginia Beach, back in the 60's / 70's was doing its best to upstage Myrte Beach (& the like) down in South Carolina. This article, that deals with the clubs & live acts back then, is quite old but I hadn't seen it before (a link was posted up on Southernsoul) .............. https://www.virginialiving.com/virginiana/history/rogues-gallery-of-clubs/ Seems that acts such as Bill Deal & the Rhondels, the Drifters and local outfit the Showmen were the live acts that made the most impact in the Virginia Beach clubs back then. I wonder if the likes of Barbara Stant, the other Shiptown artists or Charlie McClendon & the Magnificents (who Norman Johnson of the Showmen did some work with) also played the Virginia Beach clubs on a regular basis. Anyone know ?

Another old Cleveland show ad, this one's from 1968. Bill Spoon & the Soul Notes were once again on the bill .......... ............ and again this was posted up by Invisible Soul on Facebook ...........

It was such a big US hit that there were a least 3 different presses of the single back at that time ............ (BTW there's also a 2nd UK Concord label version with a different label design) ............. ...... scans of the other two US versions below ........ The earliest Bamboo label design (first release when label was St Louis based) featured a bit simpler palm tree design but the next few releases after that seemed to escape with plain white labels. Guess the design used on Mel & Tim's hit was commissioned when that cut began to sell in quantity. Did the Bamboo #107 palm tree label design come about when Scepter took over national distribution of the label (Steve G will know) ??

The top banana, radio soul wise, for me was gudol TrickieDickie Searling. His Radio Hallam (Sheffield) show in the early to mid 80's was the bees' knees if you wanted to hear new releases, NS, MS, deep soul & jazzy soul each & every Saturday. His 'end of year' top 100 was always a must listen (which also usually ended up being recorded onto cassette). It was a great loss when he had a falling out with the management at Hallam (over show content) & moved on to Red Rose up in Preston. He would send me tapes of his new show on a pretty regular basis but it wasn't really the same. ALSO used to listen in to Dave Evison's slot on Radio Derby (was that on a Tuesday night ?), but RS's output was the tops IMO. Of course, back then, Radio One just about always had a decent weekly soul show back then but that hardly ever had any NS / MS track content.

The Memorial for William Franklin Bell Saturday, November 23, 2013 Time: 11:00 AM Where: Advantage Funeral & Cremation Services, Horis A. Ward Chapel, 1999 GA Hwy. 138 SE, Conyers, GA 30013 ................ Online Memory Book: www.mem.com ; In upper right hand corner, do search by his name - William Franklin Bell