Roburt

A few of the various 45 variations ..............

If I recall correctly, they had a private box reserved for them but some nights would let mates use it instead of themselves -- they'd usually only attend one show as well (the night I went there were 2 houses; 1st started about 6.30 & the 2nd about 9pm)

You're right about Brian Epstein being involved. He owned the Saville Theatre at that time & the Beatles were in the audience for a great many of those shows.

A ticket for a show staged @ the Nite Owl in Leicester on 24th March 67. It was a long time ago & I can't even remember how I ended up with this as I didn't start attending sessions at the Nite Owl till May 67. No idea who was backing Lucas up that night (probably Mike Cotton Sound though).

Wigan Casino ........ was closed down in 1981 under pressure from the police and the local authority as drugs gangs had the venue in its grip. Copied from ..... https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Lost-Tribes-Leicestershire-Northern-Soul/story-12027767-detail/story.html#axzz2hc4JfQsC

Locals up in Norfolk could also have signed up for a USAF related course that has just finished (though no doubt little of the info detailed in the lectures would have related to visiting entertainers on the bases). The bases just over the Suffolk border (though many of the personnel who work on them actually live at RAF Feltwell which is a couple of miles away in Norfolk) also had their own newspaper / magazine, Jet48. Some of the later editions of this are now available on line. I scanned a few issues of it (from 2006) but the only black music related item I have found so far is a piece on a Tim Westwood visit to the base ...... see Page 7 here >> https://www.lakenheath.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070112-011.pdf

Sales levels have been released for the show and it seems that for 35 of the 36 weeks it had been running so far it has taken over $1million. The 36th week it fell short by just over $40,000. One week it took 106% of potential gross (over $1.5million -- meaning every seat was sold + standing room sales on top)

Here's the link to the piece about Jimi Hendrix playing the Orford in Norwich on Thursday 25th January 67 ........ https://2ndair.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/hendrix-at-norwich/ Hendrix had been on at the Mojo in Sheffield (a normal Sunday night session; 5/- entry) on 8th January 67, I was in the crowd that night. He'd been on at the Wheel niter on the Saturday night. I saw Hendrix agin (though we really went to see Garnet Mimms) at the Saville Theatre (London) on Sunday 7th May (67) and got to see Lucas + Mike Cotton Sound perform at the Skyline Ballroom in Hull on Thursday 8th June (67).

Upper Heyford outside Oxford used to be a big US airbase and RAF Croughton (next door to Heyford) is a US spy base. The Yanks pulled out of Upper Heyford in 1992 though they were still flying bombing missions to the Gulf from there in 1991. RAF Croughton is still staffed by the US military. From 1990 to 92 I used to drive past both bases daily on my way to work in Oxford. I'd be passed by US Cops in a big American car many mornings as they went from base to base or to one of the military housing estates in the area. It always seemed strange being overtaken by a speeding car all badged up as US Military Police on those quiet Oxfordshire back roads. Unfortunately I never got the chance to go on the Heyford base when it was active, though I know some locals did get invites to play ten pin bowling or use the American Diner on the base.

As "Write Me A Letter" sounded so old fashioned (outdated) to me I decided to give "Please Believe Me" a listen .... ..... AND YES ... there sound had progressed in that short period. That Ravens track .........

There are still active USAF bases in Norfolk (Lakenheath, Mildenhall) but with modern day security measures I don't think Brits can get in to make use of the entertainment facilities anymore. With the strong US military presence in the area since the 40's, their is a dedicated USAF Library that I believe is in the centre of Norwich. I know the likes of Kenny Hamber played gigs at those bases (& Upper Heyford) in 1991 but it isn't an easy task to ID which other groups, acts played gigs there back in the 60's & 70's. You would think details like which artists played shows there would have been documented but I can't find any details after doing an on-line search. The only thing music related that I could find on the US Library's site was an article about Jimmy Hendrix playing a gig (along with Geno Washington & RJB) at a Norwich pub back around 1967. I recall B&S included a 'Stars & Stripes' section in the mag in the early 70's for some months and that section detailed events taking place on US bases over here. I also seem to recall a Wilson Pickett led revue show playing some of the British US bases before doing a couple of shows for the public here. Will have to look out those editions of B&S to see what shows on bases were mentioned at the time. OF COURSE, lots of US servicemen would get leave on weekends (while over here) & head up to London to sample the clubs there. Lots of others actually formed groups or performed as solo singers on (& off) those bases .... which is how we ended up with the likes of Geno Washington plus others here.

Two venues in Baltimore in April 1948 that had visiting acts on. The Royal Theatre was featuring the Ravens as their top of the bill act, whilst the Astoria Musical Bar was playing host to jazz outfits like the Gene Redd Trio. The Ravens would have been touring at the time on the back of their 1st big hit "Write Me A Letter". If this was a doo-wop track it was a very primitive one.

Well I don't know how most small studios got everyone involved on their recording sessions without breakin the bank, but at least one southern based studio made use of the kids in the local college band to ensure brass, strings & the like were in evidence on their recordings. These visiting players supplemented the studio house band. Backing singers weren't usually a problem as loads of guys (gals) looking to land themselves a session would first help out on other projects to get some studio experience / impress a producer.

I'll have to throw the Dells 1956 version of "Oh What a Night" into the mix for consideration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ozQT8yQXA

I think we need input from RobbK or someone with similar knowledge of doo-wop tracks. I'd personally be more interested in which individual tracks to the overall sound onwards to early soul as I guess it wasn't the output of just one or two groups that progressed things back then. Lots of times (in the 50's, 60's & 70's) a group would make a certain type of track coz that's what their record company wanted from them, rather than because it was what the individual group members had a burning desire to cut ..... but of course that wasn't always the case. THEN AGAIN, it could have been a singer / songwriter moving a sound forward (guys like Curtis Mayfield & Smokey Robinson spring to mind) or it could have been a producer that was moving forward with the acts he was working with. I'd say there's no one easy simple answer to this question.

Sonny Til & the Orioles were well established before the end of the 40's and are credited as one of the groups that helped set the doo-wop standard. They were still going & making 'up to date' records into the late 60's (THOUGH they were followers and not leaders in setting trends by then). Lots of early to mid 50's groups maintained a cutting edge sound into the 60's (& some even into the 70's) .... the likes of Lee Andrews & the Hearts, Hank Ballard & the Midnighters, the Meadowlarks / Larks plus Little Anthony & the Imperials spring to mind. The Drifters were around for years & years as well but as totally different outfits adopted the name, I don't think they can really count.

Sonny Til alternated between performing as a solo act (with the likes of Virgie Till as a member of his review) and performing with a set of Orioles. If he went out as a solo singer (with backing vocalists) he kept more of the club fee for himself I believe, if he went out as Sonny Til & the Orioles he (no doubt) had to pay the other guys a bit more. I do know that membership of the Orioles was ever-changing through to the mid 60's. Sonny even 'sacked' the entire group (one time being as early as 1955) and recruited whole new outfits to join him as the Orioles. It's my understanding that if a decent 'Oldies show' tour invite came Sonny Til's way, he would assemble a set of Orioles and take the booking (as the booking would be for the group and the fee for the whole tour a decent amount). Can't say I know when he (& the group) first started doing the 'oldies shows; circuit. Marv Goldberg's site is just about the best for info on early black groups and their histories. He has put up a 4/5 part series on the Orioles and that gives full details of how things went for Sonny & the other guys through to the 60's and beyond ........ https://www.uncamarvy.com/Orioles/orioles3.html That states .......... Sonny put together a new Orioles group ..... they got an engagement at the Apollo Theater (for an "Old Goldies" show) that began on September 29, 1961. The other acts were Little Anthony, Shirley & Lee, the Teenagers, Little Joe, the Valentines, Charlie & Ray, and Robert & Johnny. I would guess that the show was just about the first 'Oldies Show' that the Orioles performed on. Sonny & whoever else was an Oriole back then still tried to continue on as a everyday group though and kept on with gigs during which they would perform (other acts) recent hits as well.

EGVO had started out as a soul band (beat group ?) that toured the UK extensively. When mainstream UK clubs started moving over to a less soul dominated playlist around 67/68, the outfit changed its name & became more progressive / syc rock (or whatever name that genre goes under). As the 'new' EGVO they soon had a big club following and so no doubt were signed to an album deal by CBS and placed on Direction. It's likely their LP tracks were cut quickly (I don't actually know if this is true or not) and so they could easily have used songs that they had performed in their soul days (did they, I don't know their LP tracks). I do know they were a popular live draw at clubs like the 100 Club and Marquee back in those times.

A 60's outing from Little Hooks & the Kings -- "Jerk Train" ............. BTW, Little Hooks (Adolphus Holcomb) had been with the group since their early days ........... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_42jZRcpkA

Lots of doo-wop groups (or their members) had long music careers as age didn't seem of paramount importance to record companies back then. Lots of groups from that era reinvented themselves though, with new names, new stage outfits and different stage shows (lots just including a few old hits in their act plus lots of Motown / recent soul hit songs). So lots of artists such as Sonny Til (who started out in 1947) had mainstream music careers right through to the 70's and then got on the 'Oldies Show' bandwagon that grew from those times. One instance of a group carrying on for many years was a Baltimore outfit who started out as Bobby Hall & the Kings in 1950. Group politics soon played a major part though and 4 years later the group had a new lead singer / leader and were known just as the Kings (though they also had a record out as the Ramblers). By the 60's they had morphed into Little Hooks & the Kings and though the members took day jobs they continued on as a performing outfit. They cut more tracks in 1972 and funky soul tracks such as "Give The Drummer Some More" were a world away from their doo-wop roots ........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu01cO0qTdk

My box has arrived (via Amazon). I put in a pre-order some time ago and my box is #1162 of 2000. As lots of other retail outlets have pre-ordered this box set, I would bet that 75%+ of them have already left the Universal-Island warehouse. My guess is every one will have gone by Xmas, so don't delay if you want a box for yourself.

My box has also arrived (via Amazon). I put in a pre-order some time ago and my box is #1162 of 2000. As lots of other retail outlets have pre-ordered this box set, I would bet that 75%+ of them have already left the Universal-Island warehouse. My guess is every one will have gone by Xmas, so don't delay if you want a box for yourself. Vinyl & labels look fine, though nowt like an old UK black label Tamla Motown 45. The sleeves are old style too but with added logos down each side (so making them different to old 'orange & white' uns).

Love it Greg. Simple instrumentation and pure cool vocals. When does it date from (it has the feel of one of those 70's gospel tracks that took it's inspiration from 60's soul) ?

AND ....... as half of Bob & Earl he helped make just about the biggest anthem of 1960's UK mod clubs -- "HARLEM SHUFFLE".

I know very little about the history of doo-wop groups and (like you) until the last few years generally didn't find time to listen to the tracks such groups cut back in the day. However, I have spent time researching the Baltimore black music scene of the late 1940's and 1950's. Baltimore always had a great entertainment scene, boasting numerous vibrant clubs and one of the big chitlin-circuit theatres; the Royal. The strange thing about the Baltimore club scene back then was that, although a lot of the best early doo-wop groups were from the city, the club scene for the most part stuck with jazz acts right through the 40's & 50's. Even when local groups had national success, they would only really play the city's theatres on a regular basis. The local star groups included the likes of the Swallows, (Sonny Til &) the Orioles & the Cardinals. National outfits such as the Drifters (Clyde McPhatters incarnation), the Flamingos, the Ravens, the Spaniels and the Four Fellows came to play venues such as the Royal Theatre and Astor Theatre (even the Vocaleers got to play the Royal in summer 53). So local fans got to see all the top doo-wop acts but the likes of Bill Doggett, Don Gardner, Sonny Stitt, Earl Bostic and all the local jazz outfits held sway in local clubs for the most part. The big local & national doo-wop groups inspired many kids on the street corners of the city's projects to try their hand at harmony singing and so a 2nd wave of groups such as the Plants followed on. No doubt there are a number of doo-wop group tracks that laid the foundation for the acts & sounds that followed in the 60's BUT it would need recommendations from the likes of RobbK to highlight which recordings back then helped set the scene for the creative explosion that came in the 60's. It would be good to learn which tracks turned out to be the most pivotal in moving black music forward during that decade or so.