Roburt

I bought a CD player to use in my 'newer' car. It also has a DAB radio, so that is tuned into MAGIC SOUL (no rare stuff played or NS though). On the computer I listen to Mixcloud, especially many of the 100's of shows put up there by Richard Searling.

Been on a La Louisianne quest recently as I've been writing an article on a guy involved with the Lafayette / La music scene of the 1960's / 70's. Most of the guys involved with the tracks of interest back then were white guys and lots went on (when soul was no longer the in sound) to move over to the swamp rock or country side of things. Eddie Raven was a song writer (under his real name of Edward Futch), a singer (making mainly non-soul stuff) and a producer (supervising many soul track cutting sessions). I'd like to know more about his soul era as just about everything on line mainly documents his later country music involvement (he wrote songs cut by many top country artists). But he was (earlier) involved with many local Lafayette recording sessions that resulted in good soul cuts being laid down. Some of these were picked up from the local label for national distribution (by the likes of Philly based Jamie). Other tracks stood the test of time so well that they went on to get released by Ace / Kent (& others) here in the UK -- see scans below. BUT I'm really after info on one song credited to Edward Futch in particular ... it shares the same title as one of my all time fave Chicago songs "AIN'T NO BIG THING". Anyone here got a copy of Gee Gee Shinn & Jerry "Count" Jackson's "Ain't No Big Thing" on La Louisianne ? I can't find a sound clip of this track on-line.

Way before Brian Auger formed Oblivion Express ... when he was switching from jazz to soul ... he was the subject of a UK music mag feature ... THEN ... after his time with Steam Packet & then Julie D as a mod / soul icon, he became very popular in the US and played all the big venues over there (Filmore West & East, etc) ... it was his popularity over there that resulted in his OBLIVION EXPRESS period and his original version of this thread's track ...

You takes your choice ... English or French lyrics ...

More input from a SDF member .... on CBS ('Oriole') pressed 45's ... Although their mastering and their vinyl sound quality were good, CBS UK was sadly one of the main offenders in terms of off-centre holes for both singles and albums. Therefore, a "farmed out" CBS pressing was more desirable to the likes of me. He didn't have knowledge of any Direction 45's that had been 'out-sourced', it was rock singles on CBS that Decca had pressed he had. I guess this 'off-centre trait was due to the equipment at the old Oriole / CBS plant in Aston Clinton being almost life expired. I'd guess they improved in quality when CBS moved to their new purpose built pressing plant on Raybans Lane, Aylesbury (see pic of it on original thread referred to earlier in this thread).

Geeselad, my brain is wired that way; I can't help myself once I get the bit between my teeth. But I'm not up there (knowledge wise) with the real Detroit experts, so always welcome input from others.

Back in the 80's, I was a guest on Richard Searling's Radio Hallam radio show. We were chatting & he mentioned he'd be playing Bud Harper's "Let Me Love You". I'd had a UK copy of Bud's "Mr' Soul" since it was big here in 1966. Haven't got a copy of that I told him, I've only got his "Mr Soul". ... DOHH BUT in my defence, I'd only had the 45 for around 17 years.

Yes, it was a phone call from his (then) girlfriend that prompted Lou to write the song. She was really really missing him, so he promised to head home to her in the morning (after his show that night). He promised to be there, to go home & see her .... So I asked him ... so you went home in the morning ... With a wry smile ... he said ... actually NO, in fact I never saw her ever again ... we all ended up on the floor laughing.

Lou told me the story around him writing this song (what the inspiration for the lyrics was). He had us all falling on the floor laughing.

Ian Melia put a Grant Smith & the Power 45 ("Thinkin About You") up on Facebook today. They were Canadian & Eddie Spencer had been the group's lead singer ahead of Grant Smith being hired. Lots of stuff on garagehangover about them.

So did The Eddie Spencer's "If This is Love" get it's 1st UK club spin by someone who bought one of the copies from this shipment ?

CBS out-sourced the pressing of some copies of a few Bob Dylan HIT 45's here in the UK. A few years later, they started having hits with some of their soul 45's on Direction. If CBS had out-sourced some of their pressing work when their own plant couldn't cope (to EMI & Phillips), maybe copies of the following HIT soul 45's were also out-sourced ... Sly & the Family Stone's" Dance To The Music" [[June 68 -- though this had escaped on EMI's Columbia label first), the Bandwagon's "Breakin' Down The Walls Of Heartache" [[summer 68) & the Tymes "People" [[Jan 69). Anyone here have knowledge of this actually happening ?

Input again from a SDF member ... copies of TMG 607 were outsourced for pressing. It seems likely these were done at the CBS / Oriole plant (probably the one in Aston Clinton) ... though some seem to think they may have been made by Pye. An 'out-sourced' copy is shown below ... the label on this looks identical to the EMI pressed copies, so it seems EMI supplied the labels for these 'out-sourced' pressings.

As already stated, Columbia / CBS bought out Oriole in 1965 (the deal being formulated in 64). CBS wanted their own UK outlet as their acts (Bob Dylan, etc.) were beginning to sell well internationally. But EMI & Columbia had a relationship (in the US & UK) that went right back to the 1930's. That's why EMI released stuff (& owned the rights to) the COLUMBIA label in the UK. So, when COLUMBIA bought out Oriole & started their own UK label/s, they had to be CBS here & not Columbia. But the 2 companies still 'got on' although from the mid 60's, they had no formal ties. The UK Columbia label had existed for decades & had various different label designs. In the early 60's, CBS owned labels such as Okeh had their 45's released here (Major Lance, etc) by EMI on the Columbia label. The relationship between the two was coming to an end though, so US soul stuff began to dry up on Columbia 45's. BUT, the two companies retained links AND when CBS started to have UK hits with Bob Dylan 45's, the ex Oriole pressing plants couldn't meet the peak demand. So CBS went to EMI and had some 45's pressed up at EMI's west London facility (again, Bob Dylan fans are fanatics, so all this info has been gathered by others already). The UK CBS Dylan 45's pressed up by EMI are mainly ID'ed by the tax code letters to be found on the record's centres (KT for instance). Below it shows a 3 pronged CBS 45 (Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone") this was also pressed at an 'outside plant' (by Phillips I believe) as the CBS / Oriole versions always had 4 prongs.

3 versions of a 70's Tamla Motown 45 ... going further afield to get it pressed up ... with thanks to SDF member ... The German version for the German market ... The German version for the UK market ... The UK version for the UK market ...

There were 45's that sold steadily over a long period but never made the UK singles chart (or just made it into the bottom of the chart) ... these steady & long sellers would mostly all have been pressed in-house I guess ... with a 2nd pressing coming 6 to 12 months after the first. A record at the bottom of the Top 40 would be selling a fraction of the copies of that week's No.1 record. SO THERE WERE THE big CHART HITS ... some UK soul 45's were awarded silver (250,000 sales) or gold discs (500,000) for sales levels. These would have made it high into the top 10 but may only have sold in high numbers over a period of say 10 to 12 weeks. So, at their peak, they would have been selling around 40,000 copies in a 7 day period. These are the 45's that would have been outsourced to other companies pressing plants to meet the short term demand. So that's tracks such as the 4 Tops "Reach Out", "Marvin's "Grapevine", Stevie's "Yester Me, Yester You" & a couple of Supremes' singles+ other labels cuts such as Nina Simone's "Ain't Got No, I Got Life". How many copies of 45's such as Ike & Tinas' "River Deep", Roy C's "Shotgun Wedding" and Bob & Earl's "Harlem Shuffle" would have sold in their PEAK WEEK I can only guess at, but it seems that they also probably would have been out-sourced' too to keep up with demand. I think we'll never now know the full facts on actual sales figures. But with the info available on say how a Decca pressing differed from a Phillips or Pye, Polydor or EMI pressing, we should be able to ID certain Stateside, Tamla Motown & Bell 45's that definitely weren't actually pressed by EMI at their own plant.

Mick, thanks for that info. Yes, it's obvious many other EMI released 45's were pressed up by other companies. I never realised Polydor were also part of the process (but now do). I know Beatles fans have researched this subject & it seems Cilla Black fans have as well. I guess if I trawled the net, I could also find info on 45's by the likes of Frank Ifield, Rolf Harris, Cliff Pilchard, the Shadows & more that were made by others. The closest I think I can get at present to a EMI 45 that must have been pressed up by others are copies of Kenny Lynch's version of "Up On The Roof" (HMV # 45 POP1090). This was a No.1 for a good while in early 63 and so sold by the barrow full. But I don't have the means myself of checking all the different versions of this 45 out there & so ID'ing which were pressed up by other companies. Hoping someone somewhere has done a bit of work on this subject already.

An add on question ... . . . has it been established which record companies' pressing plant made lots of the collectable UK soul 45's put out by ska / reggae & soul indie labels. Stuff like Errol Dixon's "Need Someone to Love", Jimmy James R&B, Ska Beat, Trojan or Miami label 45's, Blue Beat label stuff, Glen Miller's "Where Is The Love" and the like. I believe Oriole's plant made 45's for many different UK labels, including some Blue Beat singles. I'd guess that copies of the Isley Bros "This Old Heart of Mine" could have been pressed up by 'outside plants' but that 45 sold over such a long period, that I'd say EMI must have done 3 / 4 different pressing runs of it themselves. I know that the some of the Spot label 45's (the Lunar 2 single) were pressed up in Newport, south Wales. I don't even know who owned that pressing plant but assume it was a small indie operation not owned by a major UK label. A crap copy of this 45 just sold for £250 ...

Going back to the 1960's, EMI was the biggest record company in the world. Off the back of the Beatles worldwide success, they expanded here & in many other countries. They had some of the most modern / best / biggest pressing plants in the world here in the UK. This was partly coz old equipment would be taken off line & shipped to an overseas EMI operation (India / Pakistan / Africa) with new machinery replacing it in their UK plants. BUT even though EMI was a 'giant' in the industry, sometimes they had problems pressing enough records to keep up with the demand. To increase production they turned to other companies to press up some copies of particular releases, however, the vast majority of their single releases were still pressed by EMI themselves. However, if they, say, had a big Beatles hit on their hands and a couple of other big sellers at the same time, they would go out to get help from other labels plants. They used the likes of Oriole -- who pressed up loads of copies of “I Want To Hold Your Hand” (R 5084--- November 63) & “Can’t Buy Me Love” (R 5114 -- March 64) at their Aston Clinton facility in 63/64. It seems they deemed Oriole to have a very good pressing plant that was also used by several other companies. Oriole pressings are usually mistaken for Pye pressings. The reason for this was that Pye also had several of their big hits 45's pressed by Oriole, with folk assuming these had been done in-house by Pye. By all accounts you can tell the EMI label & Pye label 45's that were made by Oriole coz they have distinguishing characteristics. Oriole pressings .... 1. No tax code is evident in the push-out centre on either side of the disc. 2. The push-out centre has a rough texture to it. 3. There is one small ridge that’s approximately 0.5mm in from the edge of the push-out centre. 4. The gap between the push-out centre and the body of the disc is approximately 2.5mm wide. 5. The tax code can be found stamped into the deadwax at the 9 o’clock position. 6. The mother plate number is pressed directly underneath the tax code at the 9 o’clock position. Obviously CBS took over Oriole in late 64 and then used the Aston Clinton & Colnbrook pressing plants to make their own CBS & Direction stuff, US Columbia / CBS had first looked to start their own UK labels in 1962. From May 1962 onwards, Philips handled the American Columbia / CBS label here & in Ireland. An early UK 45 under the new arrangement with Phillips was the Dave Brubeck Quartet's "Unsquare Dance" (CBS AAG 102). This collaboration started to end after CBS bought out the Oriole Records operation. A few more EMI 45's were made by CBS (/ Oriole) in December 64 & again in September 68, but not as many were made this way. So, it seems using the old Oriole facilities became harder for EMI when they needed instant extra capacity. So they went to the likes of Decca, Phillips & Pye. Decca pressed up 45's for EMI in September & December 63 + in summer 65. It seems Decca pressed up lots of 45's for EMI throughout the 1960's. Phillips & Pye made EMI 45's mainly in 1968 /69 and into the 70's. I have used the Beatles 45 to illustrate this piece as their stuff has been extensively researched by many before me. Beatles collectors have identified which singles were pressed by the other companies & how these can be identified, as the completists want a copy of each 45 in all it's different forms. So, we know it went on (other companies pressing up 45's for EMI) from at least 1963 right through into the 70's. I guess it would only have been big single runs that were sent out to these outside sources; an order for say 5000 of this particular record, rather than 500 copies of 10 different EMI 45's, So that means it will only have been HITS that EMI outsourced. That would cut down the number of releases that were of interest to us ... but I guess we could easily have Stateside 45's from the likes of Lee Dorsey, T/Motown 45's from the likes of the Supremes / Tops, etc, Bell 45's from James & Bobby Purify, etc etc that were done by the likes of Oriole, Decca, Pye, etc. I know Pye went through a rough patch in terms of 45 sales in summer 65 and were only 'rescued' when Fontella Bass's "Rescue Me" (Chess) became a big seller for them ahead of Christmas 65. I guess it's likely that copies of this Pye / Chess 45 were outsourced to other pressing plants to meet the demand. ANYONE HERE have any knowledge of which singles from one company were pressed up in this way (by another rival record company) ?

As said here ... "The Message" was a big pop hit & R&B chart hit in the US ... the group played live gigs across the US for a couple of years on the strength of it. Since then, Schroeder has made even more money from the song being sampled numerous times.

Kenb, I bet there was loads of that stuff up in the loft of the Oriole managers house. But as the buyers weren't record folk, it will all have been sent to the dump. I'd have been happy to have had half a dozen of the old Oriole records cardboard boxes that they'd used to form the loft floor.

After quitting Oriole, John Schroeder went to Pye Records, where he was involved in lots of their UK soul output. He really made his money in the 70's though when he was the guy behind the stuff made by Cymande.

As well as their London studio facility, they had a 2nd pressing plant in Colnbrook, near Slough. I also never researched this 2nd pressing plant. I would guess though that the set up there was run in a very similar way to the one in Aston Clinton. Aston Clinton today, where Oriole pressing plant was ...

An extract from the above article ... Maurice Levy assured me he wanted to put Oriole up against the big boys – we wanted to become a major force. I said ‘if you’re going to do that you’re going to need a lot of finance. You got to have promotion guys, Luxembourg airtime, all sorts of things.’ But he said he wanted to. At the time I believed him. Unfortunately as time went on, the support wasn’t there in the strength it should have been. I don’t think he realised what he’d let himself in for and what was needed to make Oriole a major force. However, I did do a lot in the 2 1/2 years I was there. I had free rein, restricted by the budget so I was always held down a bit. They had their own studios but they were deficient in lots of ways and they didn’t want me to hire any other studios, so we had to put up with the faults and technical difficulties. Then I set up Oriole as a proper label, got rid of a lot of artists, signed new ones and retained a few old ones, like Maureen Evans and Clinton Ford. I redesigned the label, the yellow and black one. I established an Oriole magazine – it had its own magazine that went to the retailers to tell them about the label. The lengths I went to! .... ... ... I investigated the Oriole set-up many years ago as I used to often work in the BUCKS village where they had their pressing plant & storage warehouse. This was ASTON CLINTON, south of Aylesbury. The village has now been largely bypassed by a new road & has changed a lot in other ways too (many new houses). Of course, Oriole sold out to CBS in late 1964 having slowed their output Through that summer. CBS eventually closed all the facilities down there & built a new CD plant in north Aylesbury. I posted up an old thread about much of the work Oriole (& then CBS) did in the village, see here ... CBS Pressing Plant, Aylesbury ... ... from that thread title it isn't obvious that much of the info is actually about ORIOLE not CBS. I'll just pick out a couple of bits of real interest (IMO) ... the pressing plant was set up in an old garage building (see pic on thread) ... they bought a 'Plant Managers house' which was next to the old garage. Their record warehouse was just an old shed at the other end of the village. The staff at the pressing plant were mainly young local women. Each Friday they were told they could take home any record they wanted (just one, but most weren't interested, so took one for a workmate who wanted more). So, ex employees would have ended up with a copy of every Oriole / Motown 45 if that was their musical taste . ALSO, when the plant managers house was sold off by CBS, loads of old Oriole stock was found up in the loft. It's believed the new owners weren't interested in records & just sold off everything cheaply or sent it to the dump. Both the site of their old pressing plant & their old warehouse are now housing estates, again it's thought that when CBS took over the warehouse building, they just got rid of all the Oriole back catalogue really cheaply. Oriole's recording studio was back in London, so I didn't look into that.

A couple more bits from north of the border ...