Roburt

Treetop rehearsing for the concert shown on the last post (the Bobby Stringer Tribute show) .......... https://vimeo.com/48679193

Treetop (Treetop & the Soul Branches) was still active on the Miami music scene last year ......... ... here's a flyer for a Bobby Stringer (Fun City & Swar Records) Tribute show he played on ....

This Utica (not too far east of Buffalo & Syracuse) based outfit would press up 500 copies of your 45 in 1972 for $105. That worked out at around 20c per single.

Even the likes of H-D-H had to hire out their Detroit studio facilities after the guys had spent all the advance payments they had received for signing up with big national distributors (Capitol, Buddah, CBS, etc.). I don't know what their hire charges were back in around 73, but have some for an LA studio ........ .... they were charging $30 per hour for use of their facility in 1973. Like airplane seats and hotel rooms that if left empty earn no money, recording studios found themselves in a similar situation. A studio left empty earned nothing that day, so many would allow outside parties to make use of their facilities with no advance payment. Their hold on such artists making use of the studio was that they would hold onto the master tape until they were paid. So if the singer or their reps hadn't come up with the required fee, the master tapes stayed at the studio till money did change hands.

A Cleveland based company that turned your recordings into records ................ I have no costings for their work but have costings for other facilities that I will also post up .....

Tommy has messaged me with some further questions & I thought others might also be interested in the info. So I'm going to post it up on this thread and not just forward it to him privately . ....... Firstly some Cleveland studios that hired themselves out to outside parties. Cleveland never really had a large well financed home-town label (Way Out being just about the biggest there was but they were never really properly financed). So the local recording studios all had to hire themselves out to 'outside parties' to keep the work / monies rolling in.

There was also a 12 (?) track BONUS LP released as part of the V.A. package but this was a 'limited edition' item that quickly sold out. I know it featured tracks by the Sensations, Springers, Betty & Angel, Exceptional 3 and more but don't have the full track listing. Maybe another SS'er has a copy and can list all the cuts it contained.

Numero has bought the rights to the Way Out material but as of yet (as far as I know) they have only released a 40 track package that includes previously released tracks (+ the 32 track Lou Ragland package). On the V.A. compilation they have included the 2 Way Out tracks that Lou Ragland (& friends) cut under the name of Volcanic Eruption. An article about the release from about 9 months ago ... ...... https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/old-soul-never-dies-a-quirky-historical-cleveland-record-label-gets-new-life/Content?oid=4342987 Guess we can expect further Way Out related stuff from them in the future but can't at present confirm this.

Most recording studios were available 'for hire' (& still are). The Motown studio (and most years) the Stax Studios were too busy to take 'outside bookings' but just about every other studio ran a for hire side to the business. In house sessions (for the studio's own label) didn't earn cash, they just cost money to run. So to fetch in 'outside income' most studios ran sessions paid for by 3rd parties (for instance I'd say the majority of sessions cut at Detroit's United Sound studios were for such 'outside' parties). You could either hire the studio with it's full compliment of musicians, producer, etc. OR just the room and the sound engineer to 'turn the knobs' & produce the master tape. Many 'outside artists' would have the song's picked out & learnt in advance, the arrangement organised, the musicians prepared BEFORE actually going into the hired studio. That way about 4 tracks could be cut, mixed & mastered in a 2 hour session. It was generally the small operator's studios that were used by 'private labels' as they were the cheapest and most amenable, I'm sure that not too many 'private label' sessions were booked at places like United Sounds in the studios heyday. Today you could hire a (basic) US studio for as little as $70 (for a 2hr duration session).

The Tropical Records shop (4950 NW 7th Ave) was still listed (in Billboard) as a 'Hot Black Singles Retail Outlet' as late as 1985 (along with Peaches, Specs and Rudy's Records which were also in Miami).

As John has said, usually refers to a 45 (or LP) pressed up by the artist himself (or his family / group). Huge numbers of gospel tracks released in this way. Recording session organised (in hired studio or in church) by actual artist. Record making (pressing process) organised & paid for by artist AND many times records mostly sold at the artist's live concerts (usually with no copies sent to distributors / very few or no promo copies sent out / very few copies sold via actual record shops).

More Boogaloo info here to further muddy the water (with regards to the origin of bugalu / boogaloo) ............ https://www.chancellorofsoul.com/jerryo.html

More on Nth Florida's Charles Vickers .............. Charles Vickers is a native of Daytona Beach, Florida. He first appeared on stage at the tender age of six. He was chosen to sing the Lord's Prayer by the late Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune at her college program. The event was held at White Hall on the campus of Bethune Cookman College and Charles Vickers was chosen to sing solo. Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune became a great inspiration in his life. Afterwards Dr. Bethune nodded a head of approval to the young singer. She was so amazed to see such a little fellow singing that song with such great enthusiasm! He learnt to play piano from his sister who was taking formal music lessons, quickly learning the keys on the piano. He later took lessons himself from a renowned pianist in Florida. At age of fourteen, Charles had his own gospel radio show a local radio station WDAT. He went on to host a local gospel TV show. By the time he turned twenty, Charles signed his first recording contract with King Records ("Do Me Good / Lost My Faith In You” King 45-6128 1967). “Do Me Good” escaped on V.A. LP's released in France & Germany. Charles was trained in classical and gospel music and although his records are still played all over the world, he has yet to receive anything more than a few dollars in royalties. Charles has a book (gospel themed) that is available from Amazon. "Do Me Good" ........... "Me Lost My Faith In You" ....

The Florida based outfit that also used the name Tropical Records was based out of two different places in the NE part of the State. One base was Ormond Beach which is on the Atlantic coast immediately north of Daytona Beach. When the label released the Bobby Williams 45 (see post #7) they were based out of Deland which is inland and about 40 kms from Ormond Beach. There is a bit of info on this TROPICAL RECORDS on the net ........ here's an extract (relevant bits) ....... ....... (some) TROPICAL RECORDS 45's 118: Charles Vickers -- Did You Have A Good Time / Every Day's Blue Monday 125: Charles Vickers -- Where Do The Teardrops Go / I'm Trying To Believe I'm Through (1967 release ?) 128: Country Church Singers -- Jesus Was A Helpful Man / And He Heard Me //Who Else Is Listening / Divine Guidance & Revelation 130: Bobby Williams & His Mar Kings -- Darling, Here Is My Heart / All The Time 136: True Heavenly Gospel Singers -- Nobody But You, Lord / Ain't It Sweet To Know 139: Charles Vickers -- No, No More Tears / Can't Get Anywhere With You // If I / Wondering, Wondering 140: Tammie Johns -- Soul Searching For My Baby / Soul Power (both wr. Sullivan-Sherman) 141: Mighty Willing Gospel Singers -- All The Way With Jesus / Have You Got Your Ticket 147: Roger Hamilton & Odds & Ends -- I'm A Mojo Man / Something's Wrong (c.'69) 153: Gospel Days -- I've Tried Jesus / Holdin' On By Faith 164: Charles Vickers -- That Little Honey Bee / Jim Lea -- You Can Light Another Candle (Chuck McCarthy) 167: Heavenly Trumpets -- I Want To Rest / O Not Enough Love 170: Sensational Spiritualaires -- Give Up The World / Son Of God 171: Charles Vickers -- Thunder Bay / Yes-es Of Yesterday 172: Charles Vickers -- Let There Be Another Tomorrow / Let's Go Back 172: Charles Vickers -- If The Hat Fits / You've Gotta Meet Your Partner ....... (some) TROPICAL RECORDS LP's 165: Charles Vickers -- The Charles Vickers Album Come On Down (Olga Wolkenstein) Over Too Soon (Gunther Woschank) If I ("Rebel" Fortini) I Don't Want To Dream An Impossible Dream (Gene Aloe) Witch Woman (Florence Trento-Gordon Florence) Did She Mention My Name? (Henry G. James) What More Can I Offer? (Albert McCauley) Half-Hearted (James Harmon-Henry Marcus) Raining Sorrow (Joseph Zavitsky-Helen Chaney) A Million Clowns (Jessie Munro) Twilight Lonely (Louis Petro-Bernard Reichman) Soul Searching For My Baby (Mike Sullivan-Don Sherman) ................................................................... 402: Charles Vickers -- Does Disco Baby, What's Gonna Happen Tonight? (Wanda & Wen Allen) Woman And Love (Theodore Stokes) Shut Your Mouth (Wanda & Wen Allen) Just To Get Her Out Of My Mind (Thelma Miller) Tryin' To Keep You Out Of My Mind (Lee Alison) Nightmare (Jim Kelly) Livin' In Paradise (Donnie Covington) Tug Of Love (Robert Bernasconi) Black Widow Spider (C.U. Smith) Disco Joggin' (Camille Beaulieu) Crazy Knockin' (Bernie Perry)* I Promised My Baby (Bernie Perry) There Can't Be A Dream Without A Dreamer (Cliff Huddleson & Stacey Stevens) .............................................................. 403: Charles Vickers -- Disco Pop For The 80's A Brand New Face (Edward Culver, R.C. Culver) I've Been A Fool (John Drogas) So Lonely (James Miliken) It's Significant (William Doane) True Love Can Never Go Wrong (Ted Nagle) You Are Mine (Wanda Allen, Wen Allen) Please Walk Away (Wanda Allen, Den Allen) Love Left Before I Woke (Larry Liljenquist) How Many Years 'Til April? (Vyrl Burghart) Gift Of Love (G.P. King) Home For Me Is Only Where You Are (Sonia Oliver) From The First Moment (Randy Braman) Nothing Will Keep Me From You (Lionel Beauchamp, Duane Hannigan) ALL ABOVE TAKEN FROM ......... https://www.songpoemmusic.com/labels/tropical.htm It makes sense that Charles Vickers cut for this Nth Florida label (& not the Miami based one) as he was born in Daytona Beach.

Found this post on youtube which dates back to October 2012 ........ My name is Wyzard Seay (jerry seay) I am Frankie's brother, I played bass on most of his recordings, along with my other brothers we were always there to support him,he was a trail blazer, lit me up and sent me on my way,... I am the bassist for the band Mother;s Finest,wrote a lot of the signature music for the band, played with Stevie Nicks and tons of other great artist, I will always remember the entertainment value he brought, he passed away this morning, I'm proud to be his brother-RIP, Wyz ............ this one as well (from the same time period) ............ I (Gerry Cole) played guitar with Frankie circa 1975/ 76 at the Wreck Bar in Castaways in N. Miami Beach. Those were the days! Party time baby! The band was called Frankie Seay and the Contact High. I was so naive, I thought it had something to do with the medicine Contac. lol I never heard this tune- we didn't do it. This sounds like mid to late 60's. In the middle of the gig, he had this schtick that he did. He would have like a chick sit on a chair, and he'd hold it with his teeth! No lie!

Yes, that's the extra info I provided John Ridley with a while back. I reported on Frankie's passing in post # 17 above. As that was over 2 years back now I don't fully recall where the info came from but it may have been reported in a local (Miami) newspaper at the time.

I'd go with this (an official repress) option as well. I believe that when Duke - Peacock was sold to ABC-Dunhill, in addition to all the rights, ABC also got all their master tapes. No doubt the master tape for the Malibus tracks were still in decent condition and included tracks of much higher quality than had actually made it onto the original version of the 45. It seems that ABC also got the master tapes to all the old unreleased recordings the Houston outfit had in their vaults. But these were probably all dumped when some 'smart' ABC exec decided to throw out the tapes of all the companies unissued stuff to 'free up' storage room space.

Boba chatted with Billy about his solo recordings just after 48 minutes into the interview ............ .... OF REAL INTEREST ......... Billy says he wrote "Mr. Shy" for Ruby Andrews. Ruby actually cut her version of the song (but it had a different title) !!! .

He (BM) hailed from the Chicago area though I know little else about him. "Mr. Shy" was a local radio hit in November 65. The Flash label was owned by Don Clay who was the manager of St. Lawrence Records in 1965. ......... info off the net ................ Billy's brother was George Mcgregor who recorded "Temptation Is Hard To Fight" for Twil/night ....... The B side of this 45 ("Everytime I Wake Up") featured both George & Billy on vocals. The 45 was reissued by Numero in the recent past ..... https://www.45cat.com/record/twi102

POST #18 ......... the Orig and the so called boot, both have different info on them the boot say`s a div of ABC/Dunhill Duke Records was not sold to ABC-Dunhill until May 73, so it seems strange that a 6 year old non-hit 45 would have been legally repressed by ABC in the US a long time after it had first escaped. Could possibly have been a special repress done to meet UK demand though ... OR ELSE .... a definite bootleg.

Seeing as facts are being disputed concerning another 45 just sold on this auction ...... ..... thought I'd add my twopenny worth .......... RE: Groovettes Think It Over Baby / Ain't A Thing You Can Do About It Philadelphia boy, Billy Jackson’s brief flirt with California Soul gave birth to one of the most-wanted .... Billy Jackson had nothing to do with this recording. It was Philly's Gene Dozier who had been using Billy's name since he had moved to Detroit a while earlier. This was Gene's first record session after relocating to the LA area.

Recorded at Arthur Smith's studio in Charlotte, NC. Smith was a C&W musician who had been writing hit songs since the mid 40's. He opened his studio in Charlotte in 1957. The likes of Pat Boone, Ronnie Milsap, Johnny Cash & loads of country artists cut there, however James Brown recorded "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag" there in June 65. The fact that JB cut a big hit there probably led other soul singers (such as Pervis Lee) to use the studio. Think the Pervis Lee track dates from 69 and it was issued on a UK (maybe US) pressed 45 not too long back.

I know segregation was still fully in force in the Carolinas into the early to mid 60's and was only outlawed by federal statute (against local polititian's desires). So mixing of the races hardly ever took place until just prior to the mid 60's. Is that the reason why lots of Carolina based beach groups were all-white outfits if formed prior to say 1963 ? If so, it seems strange to me that soul music was the most preferred genre that they all played.

A Detroit newspaper article about 'lesser known' (to your general US listener) Motown songs ...... https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/2014/10/23/motown-playlist/17705513/ Don't think any of them will be unknown to UK based Motown fans.

The Jerry Green on Woodward One could also have been the guy that was a member of the Contours from 1964 to 1967.