Roburt

They don't have sleeve notes attributed to a DJ ... BUT it's very hard to ignore the 'Bell's Cellar Of Soul' comp LP's from 1968/69. The 'tribute' album to the series that Charly put out in 89 did however have notes by Rob Hughes. EMI put out lots of other great soul comp LP's in the 60's / 70's but usually the sleeve notes were about the artists / tracks on the albums (though some were penned by DJ's). LP's such as .... A Quartet of Soul; Soul Supply, Soul Sixteen, An Album Full of Soul; Sweet Soul Sounds. They also put out more in the 80's ('What's Happening Stateside' etc.) but don't recall if these had notes by DJ's.

As the subject has been touched on earlier in this thread ... I'll add some more details Sidney Barnes gave me that relates to the New York / Detroit connections at Golden World. Shirley (J) Scott was New York based when recording with Gene Redd (& Sidney Barnes). BUT she wasn't from there. When her 45 didn't take off, she abandoned her plans for a singing career in the Big Apple & returned to her hometown of Jacksonville. Florida and disappeared. Sidney Barnes had fallen head over heals for her ('that young lady' he called her). I'd guess from his reaction, that she was quite a 'looker' back then. No idea if she continued singing when back in Florida, but she left Sidney heartbroken at the time. The NY studio session that Sidney did with Shirley & Gene was the last time Sidney worked with Gene. After that, he relocated to Detroit and worked in partnership with George Clinton & Mike Terry.

My fave group has always been the Impressions (unless its the Dells on a certain day) ... so when I picked up a UK copy of "That New Girl" around 1969 and loved it from day 1. Of course, it's not really them singing their own sound, so I also like lots of their 70's CBS stuff. But "That New Girl" has a special place in my heart.

John is right, it definitely sounds like a tune used in a blaxploitation film. Trouble is from around 1972 for 5 years, there were 100's of them made. This isn't the track you're asking about, but it's a similar instro movie track (from Across 110th St) .. The track you're asking about has a guitar on lead in parts but then brass comes to the fore a bit later, so it's definitely some kind of soul orchestra that is involved -- a kinda MFSB / J.J. Johnson Orchestra type of outfit. I'm an old gibba, so am not up with current app / net technology. But isn't there some software you can put a sample of a track in & it will tell you what the tune is. PLUS, there are numerous movie web pages where knowledgeable folk know this kind of thing.

I asked Sidney for more info in relation to this thread's topic. As always, he was most helpful and came up with loads more interesting facts. SIDNEY BARNES: Gene Redd was a very good friend of mine. I actually started working with him right after Motown (NY). Gene had a little Jazz group that he was grooming that became Kool & The Gang. He became a very busy independent producer in New York during the mid 60's. Gene talked many labels into funding his studio sessions, using Jean Carter and myself as his go to backing singers on a lot of his productions. Many times we would spend all day or even numerous days in the studio working on sessions with him. He was sly, slick and very smooth. All the blacks in the click back then were amazed that Gene could get major labels to give him a budget and an advance on an artist that he was working with. Gene was cool, soft spoken, and as talented and ruthless as they come. But I liked the guy a lot. We hung out together every chance we got coz he was into the music as much as I was. He was always coming up with a new act or starting another big project. I remember Gene booking 30 musicians plus Jean and I. We all recorded two whole days of tracks. Track after track, hour after hour, because he was a perfectionist. However, Gene couldn't make a deal on the artist he'd recorded and nobody got paid. It was a big mess, But we loved the guy, he was a genius of sorts. He recorded Shirley (J) Scott, a young lady that I later feel madly in love with. After that I never worked with Gene again. He got too ruthless and head strong. So I left him alone and stuck with just George (Clinton) and Mike (Terry) while working in Detroit. Gene was a very good producer though and a great guy with a good eye and ear for talent. As you can see from the above, Sidney worked on many NY studio sessions in conjunction with Gene. These included sessions on Shirley's tracks. So Sidney got to know her well & he even fell in love with her. As he said he didn't work with Gene at all when they were both in Detroit, I asked about the sessions with Gene & Shirley and where they took place. Sidney confirmed that Shirley & his efforts were laid down in a NY studio ... but he thinks Gene may have had the instrumental tracks for her cuts done in Detroit. Sidney wasn't too happy that nothing (commercial success) resulted from her recordings, as he wanted her to stay around. However, he tells me she returned home and wasn't heard of again (in the record biz). Guess Sidney was just someone she worked in the studio with & when her 45 did next to nothing, Gene Redd just moved onto his next project (the Platters for Musicor ?).

Peter Kay did a great sketch about misheard lyrics in his shows a few years back (the clips up on youtube). I always thought the lyrics to the disco hit song "Last night a DJ shagged my wife" were a bit off. . . . As a 15 year old, I always used to sing "Sugar for my honey's lunch" but I don't think that's what the 4 Tops were actually saying.

The folk I'd really like any more info / updates on are these few (from above) ... Alan & Mac; Norwich Roger, Cardiff Pete & Chris; Ashford Ipswich; strangely he was from Ipswich Sinbad; Wolverhampton Brian, Walsall Mick & John; Kidderminster Can't have been too many niter goers from those areas back in 1967. CHEERS

On at the moment. It ain't "Make Me Yours" but it's still great music on the TV on a regular basis ...

Born & grew up in Yorkshire. First allniter was in 1966, though I'd been hanging with the Donny & Hull soul crowds ahead of that time (but just doing mainly local clubs as I was still in school -- I did however have a Lambretta, so got to soul clubs in Hull , Goole, Tadcaster, Cleggy, etc.). First niters attended were in Sheffield, then Leicester & by September 67, I was going to the Wheel in Manc. Also did the Tin Chicken (Castleford), a 2nd Manc niter (when we had car trouble xing the Pennines & so arrived outside the Wheel too late to gain entry). In summer, we'd get further afield (on the bikes & in friend's cars); Brid, Yarmouth, Norwich, etc. ALSO Donny was a Saturday evening meeting point for the Hull, Goole, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Lincoln soul crowds on their way to a niter. So I got to know guys from all over -- those who came to Donny en-route to a niter and those I met at niters. So I had loads of soul obsessed acquaintances back then. By the start of 1967 I had my 1st full time job, so had more cash to splash (so went more often & further afield (record hunting / clothes buying / gig attending trips to London, Leighton Buzzard, Coventry, Leeds, etc). ALSO, having my first job brought other perks. I worked for the Council in Highway Design offices (M1, etc.) and we'd be gifted little things at Amas. Being a newby I didn't get much, but I did get a 1967 pocket diary (1st one I'd ever had). I'd list what I got up to back then and it's the only way (these days) I can account for my movements / actions back then. For some reason, I didn't get given a 1968 diary, so my escapades in 68 / 69 / 70 are now almost a complete blank (apart from a few memorable live acts I got to see). ANYWAY, finally I get to my point ... I listed at the time guts who Id met on my travels and who I'd got to know. But many times, this would just be a Christian name ? nickname & own of origin. HENCE ... Toots, John & Gunner from Peterboro. I went to see folk I'd met at niters in the likes of Hull, Goole, Lincoln, Nottingham, Sheffield, etc. thus I'd visit clubs in Hull (Gondola, Discotheque, Skyline), Wakefield (Locarno), Tadcaster (Boulevard), Brid (Jungle), Goole (Paradise), Cleggy (?). Some names I listed back then I hardly recall any details of the actual people now ... of course only meeting up a couple of times a month or only in certain clubs didn't make for strong friendships but at the time they were important people in my social life. Anyone help fill in the gaps with regard to any of this lot & what became of them ... Mick Graham, Steve P, Pip, Penny, Pete, Pete & Ben;; Scunny ALSO Steve King (probably from Scunny as I wrote he was with Fred (Benson) @ the Mojo. Kenny Sharpe, Click, Eric, Dave & George, the 2 Sues; Nottingham Jean; Goole Pete Hardy; Hull (he emigrated to Canada in 67, seem to recall getting a note from him in 69/70 in with some 45's sent from Koppel's). Veronica & Dee; York Phil Pearson, Stew, Ben & Rimmo; Sheffield Shiela, Ces & Banger; Leicester Alan & Mac; Norwich Roger, Cardiff Pete; London (a Nite Owl attendee) Pete & Chris; Ashford Ipswich; strangely he was from Ipswich Sinbad; Wolverhampton Brian, Walsall Mick & John; Kidderminster Mick Murphy; Northampton (probably met him @ the Nite Owl). Also got matey with a lad from Banbury @ the Nite Owl (Leicester) but his name now escapes me (but there can't have been too many Banbury guys who attended the Owl in summer 67).

Lots of the Beverly Glenn output was top quality material. It's a pity Otis Smith wasn't that fair with the acts he signed.

Robb, good to hear you're keeping well. I know what you mean about having had to 'slow down' as I'm just a few years behind you (75 now). It's obvious that a full book (s) is asking too much of you now BUT you do have amazing knowlwdge in many fields of interest to us here. Brits only really stated to head over to the States to 'crate dig' from around 1970. My brother was in the merchant navy from the mid 60's to the end of that decade & sailed on a rotational basis from the UK to Argentina & the Great Lakes. As such, he would dock in places like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, etc on a regular basis. I'd ask him to go to local record stores & pick me up any soul records he saw in the 'discount boxes'. Trouble was, he wasn't a soul fan (into folk music), so he had no idea what he was looking for. LP's were easier for him (due to the cover pics), so he did bring me back albums by Spyder Turner, Freddie Scott & the like (but just a handful). To get my fix, I had to do mail order to Randys & Ray Averys postal service. ANYWAY, back to my request. We know little or nothing about 'crate digging' in & around Chicago & Detroit in the 60's ... you know a great deal indeed. It would be great to have you start a thread about your record hunting escapades in US cities back then.

It seems not everything was plain sailing on the good ship Golden World ... I asked Sidney Barnes ... what's the story behind this song / recording ... CAN'T SHAKE IT LOOSE by PAT LEWIS ... am I right in thinking the writers were George (Clinton), J J Barnes (not Sidney ?), J J Jackson & Rose M McCoy .. with you, George & Mike Terry producing .... . . . quite a combination ... Sidney Barnes "Ok here I go setting the record straight on this one. Ed Wingate came into the room early one morning and said to me and George who were looking for something to do, said. I want you guys to write and produce a song on Pat, Pat Lewis who had been doing a ton of background work with us for a while. And he said I want the title to be "I'm Into Something I cant Shake Loose". This was something he would do often. So I sat down at the piano with George and we wrote the song. Then Mike came and wrote the arrangements. That next day we recorded it with Pat at that was that. Now me & George thinking everything was cool cause we had been doing things like this so often, and we were constantly busy. So it wasn't until the Supremes recorded and released it on their "Love Child" album did we noticed that some extra names had been added as writers on our BMI Statements. So here's what happened (since you asked). Joann Jackson was Ed Wingate's girl friend and President of Ed's publishing co. Myto Music. She had brought her friend Rose Marie Mcoy in from New York to write for the company. I met Rose Marie when I was in New York working with J.J. Jackson a few years before, and she was a good writer. But I'll never really know if they were trying to SCREW me around or made some sort of mistake while filling it. I finally straightened it out years later with BMI and collected my back royalties. But by then the damage had been done. It really upset me there for a while, because I was always honest and trusted everybody i worked with in the business. But, J.J. Barnes (bless his soul) had absolutely nothing to do with it, at all. Neither did Joann Jackson, or Rose Marie McCoy. George and I wrote it, and Ed Wingate named it".

Gwen teamed up with Terry Woodford / Wishbone Productions in Muscle Shoals (after Terry & his partner Clayton Ivey quit Fame to go on their own). That's how Gwen's "You Better Watch Out" was recorded. Then Motown signed up Woodford & Ivey as MOTOWN SOUTH. The pair had previously leased out there tracks to the likes of WB, Capitol, Polydor, etc. But Motown wanted them & their acts, so they signed. They worked with the likes of the Commodores, Supremes, GC Cameron, Thelma Houston, Tempts, etc + cut their own acts for Motown -- Reuben Howell, Bottom & Co. AND GWEN OWENS. Gwen told me she wasn't happy with the situation and insisted she be 'released from Motown' after none of her tracks were released after 6 months. So her 45 came out on Casablanca. BUT, Motown retained the rights to some tracks she'd cut & some of them escaped (years later) on a BBC Radioplay compilation LP (this has been discussed on SS in the past). Anyway, Woodford / Ivey soon teamed her with 2 other females in the disco group HOT and they went on to enjoy good sales & chart hits. P.S. ... the BBC Radioplay LP from Rudy Love was also a Woodford / Ivey production job. This album was leased to the BBC by Wishbone Prods themselves and not by Motown ( I believe it wasn't cut by Woodford / Ivey as part of their Motown deal).

Are these two singles by the same group; released only a few months apart ... . . . Discogs has them down as separate entries, so not the same group ...

Now, as I said, my memory is shot these days, but that label doesn't ring any bells. Guess it had to be this version though. THANKS. I have the labels The Country Soul Revue – Testifying CD as well, so the label should ring a bell.

It has recently been put out here again by Charly ... BUT about 20+ years ago I recall going into the Manchester branch of the big UK indie discount record / CD shop of those times (it went bust) and seeing a newly released UK version of this 45 in their cheap box (it was on a soul reissue label). I left it coz I already had an earlier copy of the 45, but I've never seen another copy (& this version doesn't seem to be up on Discogs). Always regretted not buying it. Can anyone tell me what label it was on (my brain is failing due to old age) ?

Robb made mention of all the talented people who were working at / for Golden World ahead of BG buying Ed Wingate out. Just to reinforce that fact, below is a montage of just a few Golden World single releases put out over a short period ... people involved on these included Ed Wingate, Al Kent, George Clinton, Sidney Barnes, Mike Terry, J J Barnes, Don Davies, J Bratton, Gene Redd, R Morris, Joe Hunter, K Peterson, Billy 'the Kid' Jackson (aka Gene Dozier) + Edwin Starr, the Fantastic Four, Laura Lee and many more. While Edwin Starr was ALWAYS a big draw on live UK club dates, by 1967 the music scene in the UK was changing. Lots of soul cover bands were changing; going over to pop, progressive and blues rock material. So lots of clubs / venues that had booked loads of US soul acts were moving on to book new (or just renamed) Brit acts ... a perfect example of this can be seen from the acts that Brian Epstein / the Beatles were booking @ the Saville Theatre in London ... Garnett Mimms with Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Fairport Convention, the Who (no longer a mod group), Tim Rose, Donovan all mixed in with the likes of Jnr Walker, the 4 Tops and Edwin Starr (with Cream) ...

Detroit 1967 before & during the time of the riots ...

Sounds good. I'll have to try to get along there (hope there'ill be 45's on offer as were as the albums).

Seems Ed Wingate selling GW to BG in September 66 was a good move as 1967 was a very turbulent year in Detroit. Jobs were going as US car makers struggled to sell as many units as they had in the past. On top of that, racial tensions were really on the rise plus all the protests against black guys being shipped over to Viet Nam to die. The tensions culminated in the famous July riots in the city. The Algiers Motel incident on the nights of July 25–26, 1967, happened due to the 12th Street riots occurring nearby. At the motel, 3 black kids were killed and nine other people abused by a combined force of Detroit Police officers, Michigan State Police officers, and Michigan Army National Guardsmen. It was the incidents on those nights & over the following weeks that made BG decide to quit the city & relocate to LA (+ his desire to get into the movie biz). Edwin Starr wasn't from Detroit, so must still have felt a bit like an outsider. Many Detroit based music biz folk upped sticks and moved to Chicago, LA & the like after the riots. I guess part of the reason that Edwin spent so much time in the UK in 67 / 68 was coz he could get lots of work here and things back in Detroit were in turmoil. I know in lots of US cities hit by riots, both those in Detroit and other cities in 67 and the more widespread ones in April 68 (after MLK's killing), the night clubs / theatres had to shut down for a good number of weeks as it was too dangerous to open. Plus many potential audience members were too scared to venture out after dark. Edwin was in the UK in September / Oct 66. He returned here to tour again in Jan / Feb / March 67, then again in May / June 67. He was here even more in 1968; 3 tours in all -- Jan / Feb 68 + May / June 68 + Sept / Oct 68. He was on at the Wheel in Oct 68 (& during his earlier UK tours) ... Many times we view the soul music / record biz in isolation and ignore the 'outside forces' that were changing it for non-musical reasons.

He's mainly remembered these days coz his big hit was used in the movie 'DIRTY DANCING' ,,,

Robb, once again you've come up with important info. As stated earlier on this thread >> . Edwin undertook a UK tour in October 66. It's said that when he left the US, he was a Ric Tic act but when he returned from his UK tour, he was a Motown act. That tour was organised by Roy Tempest and ran from the 14th to 29th October. However it seems he came across to the UK ahead of the 'official tour' beginning. Maybe Polydor asked him over for promotional purposes, they released 45's by him in April & July 66 (+ December 66), These 45's did well for him here & continued to sell for months after each was issued (2 were released on a 'back to back' Polydor 45 as late as Nov 68). "Stop Her On Sight" was in the UK pop charts in May / June / July 66. "Headline News" in August / September 66. With those facts, it seems to me likely that Polydor had him come over to the UK in September 66, ahead of his full UK tour commencing. I'd guess that GW / Ric Tic's sale to Motown would have been kept under wraps while the negotiations were going on, so no doubt Edwin had no idea of what was happening in early September 66. It's stated on the net that when Edwin came over here for his 'October' tour, it was his 3d visit to the UK. No doubt his earlier ones were instigated by Polydor for promo purposes. I'd guess his 2 UK hit 45's would have had him jumping on a plane at short notice in an effort to boost the chart standings of his records. Did Edwin get to appear on the top UK TV music show (RSG) on either of those earlier visits ? He certainly met Pete Stringfellow on one UK visit ahead of October (Pete being in charge of crowd control on RSG). I do know Edwin was on RSG in late October 66. It's also stated that Edwin played the Twisted Wheel in September 66 and he can't have done that if he was back in Detroit. I wasn't (yet) attending the Wheel, as my 'local' niter / dayer was Sheffield's King Mojo (till early summer 67). One of Edwin's first UK club dates was at the Mojo in mid August 66 (he played the niter session & had no hotel, so Pete S took him back to his mother's house where Edwin slept on the floor). On Edwin's early UK gigs he was 'usually' backed by the Senate. Anyone know that group's history from that period (they backed a lot of Tempest's visiting US soul acts -- Garnett Mimms, etc ). So Edwin being in the UK from September to late October 66 would give credence to him leaving the US as a Ric Tic act but returning home as a Motown act.

Jumping back to a previous post ... Ila Vann was working in a NY studio with Gene Redd, the results of this being her Roulette 45 "Can't Help Lovin That Man Of Mine" issued in April 67. Around the same time she was singing with Gene's sister Sharon Redd on her Veep 45 "Half As Much", also an April 67 release. He'd been working for Musicor in NY with the Platters just a couple of months earlier. So it seems Gene was back in NY before the start of 1967. He seems to have started working with the Platters in NY around May 66 as he was responsible for their 45 cut "Alone In The Night (Without You)" which was released in August 66. The group's Nov 66 released 45 look like older recordings & their 'Detroit related work' came next with the 1st released results of this being "With This Ring" early in 67. So it seems Gene Redd was back working in New York for other labels (not GW linked) by late spring / early summer 1966. Jumping back to GW / Ric Tic ... is it known when J J Barnes contract was bought by Motown, as he was free of Motown and had his 1st Groovesville 45 out by early April 67. In June 66 he had been touring on a package with Motowner's Tammi Terrell & the Contours (with the Holidays also being part of that revue) ... Tammi having been signed by Motown early in 1966.

The Baltimore chart was printed in Billboard. It was the Balto radio chart -- based on the stns in the city (pop & soul). Billboard printed such charts for around 16 cities in most editions of the mag. I don't doubt that WWIN were on the 45's case much earlier as they were the top black stn in the city.

Seems Eddie's Parkway 45 "Don't Stop Now" was expected to do well (chart wise) as it was a BREAK-OUT 45 in certain cities. However, that didn't happen; it's popularity didn't spread out right across the US. MIND YOU, at the time it seems that Detroit & LA were the hot cities for breaking new releases ... I'd guess though that was coz 'little indie labels' in the 2 cities were putting out great 45's at the time. So singles by the likes of the Capitols & Shades of Blue had got their 1st radio exposure in their 'home towns'. From there, they'd spread out right across the US, making the R&B and pop charts in the process. Maybe his new 45's lukewarm reception in many markets was the reason he was still out promoting "This Can't Be True" even after it's follow-up was in the shops. Mind you, Pittsburgh was one of the few cities it had done well in, so maybe that was the reason he was still promoting it there in summer 66.