Steve G

FFS. Can you not grasp the simplest of concepts Sooty? The "all sorts" doesn't refer to other types of music, it means all sorts of people into soul. Surveyors, bricklayers, postmen, office workers....and friends of Prince Charles even eh? If you put us all in a room you'd be amazed how diverse we are as a group.

Yes I agree sounds like one vocalist, double tracked.

Why do you need a word? We're just folk who enjoy decent music - all sorts. Don't need a "badge" or a "name", except for the "civilians" of course.

I agree, although I hate the word "soulie" and also know a number of "soulies" who are quite content in their armchairs and bidding up things on ebay / jogging around their record rooms....But broadly yes Terry.

I don't know what info you have on your "members", but it seems like you still have it 15 years later and so should keep it quiet or dispose of yer database rather than talking about it on the internet. If you are hacked....it could potentially be big trouble for Sooty. Maybe not, but you should be aware of the ground beneath your feet is mighty shakey etc....

Not trying to stir up trouble for ya fella but you may well be in breach of the current data protection laws if you still have this information......depending of course on what info it is, what you do with it and how securely it is stored......just saying like! Wouldn't want you having yer collar felt by plod again....

$1500 wow!

Hi Dave, The Phoenix and Phoenix were the same label, look at the writer credits…..it's the same people credited and the same artists. Sandy Golden's "The Phoenix" release is the only one not to get picked up by Jamie Guyden, but again that's quite natural, it was probably the first one before the LA guys did a distribution deal. ATB Steve

Interesting I never realised it was based at 444, Strand, quite an "expensive" address….next time I see David Nathan I'll ask him about it.

Yes Dave I am sorry but you've got that wrong I am afraid. The Phoenix was as Pete says an LA label with an LA address (now a kitchen utensil shop b.t.w you can google earth it)…..They licensed their later product nationally through Jamie Guyden in Philly (Great Expectations, Magnum etc. but as far as we can tell not Sandy Golden's "other 45")….Great Expectation 45 also got picked up on Phil La of Soul….If you look at the credits on the records - it's largely the same people, and it's 100% the same label, just national releases. I am pretty certain (90% ish) The Phoenix / Phoenix was Calvin Wade's label. There is nothing suspect about it at all.

For goodness sake man, put a sock in it please Ian. you are digging yourself into a deeper hole with each posting you make... "Don't shoot the messenger"? "Cover up" is hardly doing that is he? he's shooting a speculative wild guesser! "Yellow original"?. Yellow Phoenix is the national J/G release, blue The Phoenix looks to be the local LA release....not hard when you look at it that way is it? Especially as there were other The Phoenix records from LA....If you've really been studying L.A labels for 40 years you wouldn't come out with this stuff! You "give up" if anyone thinks "it's a coincidence" that a new never previously known label variation of a mildly collectible funk 45 turns up? Don't "give up" it happens all the time m8. If it's a re-issue as you suggest, how come it's not been for sale anywhere? "Not in the price guides"? Most serious collectors have got boxes of records not in the price guides. Another mis-conception. Proof of that is that every new price guide has additional material listed. Then you talk about "seeing the scans" - Simon has already confirmed what he saw in Amsterdam, that's good enough for me and the other newly found copy has been posted in the first ever post on this thread with some nice pix of the record.

Which one? He did loads.

Agree with all the above.

Exactly the same as August then Simsy.....handbag central? No way! You'd find more handbags in a rugby club changing room!

Oh come on Ian. You have provided nothing to suggest the blue La Phoenix Great Expectations record is anything other than an original 45.....a link to the "discogs" website and a notation "RE" - purleeeeez, whilst "Discogs" can be a useful source, there's more accurate information to be found in a Noddy & Big Ears book...... Come to think of it I think I've got Great Expectations on Phoenix as well as Phil La somewhere, I am sure I've got other stuff on Phoenix too. I know what you are talking about when you say "behind the counter" etc....but Sandy Golden was discovered in a small shop off the beaten track in the early 80's, not a Richie Rosen type place, and it was discovered at a time when if you believe the media supposedly everyone had left "the scene" to have their families. I've already said I think the Sandy Golden 45 may well be an early 70's release, same with the La Phoenix stuff which obviously is early 70's. Questions sure, as said it's always been a talking point record amongst collectors. But why do you persist in this bootleg / re-press / smelly rat / Soussan / Under the counter conspiracy theory malarky? Why is it everything West Coast has to go back to your old sparring buddy Simon Soussan? If no one knows why do people have to make something up? And Gareth there's tons and tons of West Coast "vinyl" out there. Without even looking I can rattle off Eddie Foster, The Exits, Ty Karim, John & Weirdest, Chico Lamarr etc etc. Those with copies must be ROFL at all this speculation going on here. I'd keep stumm if I were them and watch the fun, as we get conspiracy theory after theory trotted out from Soul Source University.

What makes you think it's a reissue rather than a local release? It also came out on a yellow Phoenix label before Phil La….Surely you are not relying ot the "rare soul bible" discogs for your information Ian? I hope not!

Ian all that shows is that he controlled some of the masters, not necessary all of them, the rare record world is full of 'walk ins' who kept the rights to their masters….Am not going to continue arguing with you though, you obviously want the Sandy Golden 45 to have a Soussan connection for some reason…..Barrie Waddington says the first copy was found in a small shop on the outskirts of LA which hadn't been seeded with any other Soussan's 45s...

More speculation Ian……LOL. He may have licensed it and not owned the master tape.…..

Sorry been asleep lads ……of course original A side is a re-cycled Sweets backing track. But who wrote it fellas? Get your copy of The Sweets out and check…..have a look - it might be on Bobby Sanders label but the Sweets are not a Bobby Sanders penned songs, but it's that chap Nate Fortier again who wrote "Satisfy me baby" / "Something about my baby"……

Hi Ian, I am missing something….where are you getting the Bobby Sanders connection with Sandy Golden from?

Hi Rupert, correction, my Missus needs it…… She's been after a copy for a long while….

Hi Ian, I did read the title….it's "Has Sandy Golden on Masterpiece been booted?" The answer it seems is no. We then go into this great big conspiracy theory about Soussan, bootlegs, Synthesisers (can't hear them myself but they were used in music in the 60s) etc. etc. None of it is anything other than conjecture and wishful thinking and crude "dot joining". OK I concede some interesting ideas…..and this record has always been an oddity. There are no facts apart from the producer and his wife are real people who made other records and they are not made up names. BTW also Rick Smith LP on Birdie late 70s / early 80s was another one of Fortiers. I'd concede that it is probable the record was made in the early 70's - that's when Fortier was active and it has that 'feel' to it. As Dave Rivers and I have both said though there was a lot more going on in L.A back then beyond Simon Soussan….. So my request is let's get some facts rather than making it up…..Next thing you'll know is you'll be quoted in a book or on the web "According to Northern soul expert Ian Dewhirst Sandy Golden was an aborted Simon Soussan bootleg that never took off at the time"……History writing itself, or rather history being written by you. All that said a good thread…..now where are me cornflakes?

Yes they were Calvin Wade's group, and he was another name on The Phoenix Sandy Golden 45……Steve

Whilst there have always been some questions about the record, seems like some people on here are foaming at the mouth hoping for it to be some sort of aborted Soussan pressing that's now turned up (even tho it's far too slow for him), thus destroying the pedigree of another iconic rare soul record. When does genuine interest in a rare record stop, and "inverse snobbery" by the "£5 Squad" take over? PS: The other Nate Fortier record I remembered was by Great Expectations - 1973.

Hi Ian yep we know there is no Australian release……that bit was a wind up by someone….. PS: only problem with your post is that the characters on the production of the record do actually exist - they are on the other sandy golden 45 (The Phoenix), and I've got a record by the same production team on Phil La of Soul knocking about somewhere. PPS; are you @ Majestic next week?