Steve G

Joe I think the red Blue Rock's finished long before this release....Steve

Dave, if there was a scintilla of truth to that copies would have surfaced in vg-- condition by now, being traded as "plays well" and "OK for DJing"...some of the LA dudes would have found the odd butchered copy, but they haven't. It's pretty clear that it wasn't distributed at all.... The Fortiers actually live in San Bernardino, rather than South L.A. Of course that doesn't mean they lived there in the 70's, but food for thought....Seem to recall Ree Flores was also from somewhere like San Bernadino (did you encounter him in the 60s or 70s?) - greater LA but certainly not the central or ghetto areas... which is odd since the The Phoenix label address was North Hollywood, but I believe that was Calvin Wade's label, rather than Fortiers, though the two were obviously business associates for a while.... .... And Dave H. I am sorry but this is a proven rarity, has been known about and sought after since the 80s, certainly on 60's collectors wants lists if not every Tom Dick & Harry in the chasing pack, as is now the case....it's not a discovery of the last ten years that suddenly appeared out of the blue like the Four Vandals or Vaneicia Wilson....I am still 100% convinced it is a very rare record (probably early 70s). All the wild guesswork and speculation from Ian and others hasn't changed that.

Good fella! As it's JM Soul then it's another copy to include for those that keep count of who owns these things.....a top DJ and collector from London.

Not a patch on Sandy Golden

Was there a 2nd issue or just a load of 1st issues?

Says it all really Ian :D

Good stuff Steve, I bumped into Eddy in Barrow!

Hi Robb, My problem with that part is why weren't any copies sent to people on the northern, Belgium or beach scenes…..First copy was found in a small shop in LA. If some DJs or dealers had it, I could believe that theory….but they didn't. ATB Steve

Think Tony R and Ady discovered it…….

I don't know why you think it isn't a 100% legit release Ian. I certainly don't need my head examining…..the only question that is valid to my mind is when the record was actually pressed and the best theory says early 70's. it would fit in with Nate Fortier's other work. I only suggested closing it because we get ever wilder theories, it's got all the hallmarks of the old 9/11 thread that ran to 23 pages and ended up with Martians taking over the US Government and then attacking New York in conjunction with the CIA last time I looked at that thread…. "A bit of knowledge about L.A in the 70s" you say. I say we've discovered a lot more about the music since you were there Ian. How many Soussan bootlegs were done at Artisan then?

Probably a good point to close the thread……Jock reminds us it's about the music not the vinyl (unless of course you also happen to collect vinyl, in which case the records origins are also important too Jock)…..and before another conspiracy theory surfaces….ooo wee it's really Shalamar on an early recording….before Simon Soussan recorded them on RCA……or whatever….

Isn't that oil on shellac records?

Better to put it on a 12" if yer gonna put it out,......that way there is still some clear blue water between those that own an original 7" copy and those that "just got to have a copy on vinyl but don't want to shell out".....I know a 12 costs more, but maybe you can get Lee Jeffries to do one of his extended remixes on the B side....

Any chance of doing one on a Saturday Adey......Cheltenham just a bit far to come on a Monday night......you'd have packed up and gone home by the time I could get there!.....

Some good prices there! Someone snap up a bargain....

Hi ya, Was this played at Carib Soul? Did you have a look at it? Was gonna pop along but too tired in the end. If it was someone like JMSoul I could well believe he got it in the 80's, since he has been buying that type of sound for a long time and has a very good collection of slower material. On the other hand if it was someone like "Kenny MacCarver" I'd be well suspicious... By the way there were never "loads of copies about" it's always been a hard 45. Probably 2k+ on original. It's odd but that Canadian company put out another record by her a few years ago......sold peanuts. ATB Steve

Melvin Davis…..

Ian D, had promised myself not to come back on here after the comedy article I did,,,,but one thing for you to consider - The Manship price guide whilst an invaluable source of information isn't the holy bible……that's why there are six versions of it…..it's constantly evolving and with a work of that size not everything is going to be 100% right. PS: Hope you are over your chest infection now….Thursday was as good as always apart from one DJ playing vinyl carvers of other peoples records ! Had you been there you would have had to had put up with me moaning about it!

Why do we even need a "Top 500" ? Or rather to agree what it is? Or worse be told by someone else what it is? Like a few others I suspect my favourite records are the ones I've just bought.

The other thing is tastes have continued to evolve….in the 90s no one would have gone for "Don't be so jive"…..it wouldn't have been right for the scene then. It's the move towards the funkier edge and the european influence over the last ten or so years that has brought that style of 45 into vogue.

Sam from Richard? - goodness Nev, that was much later, Sam was one of the last to get this……about 2 years ago. I remember Sam trying to get together Richard's shopping list of "original oldies" for the trade - Judy Street type big NW oldies….Tell you when it was, it was a few weeks before Northern Soul filming was done at King Georges Hall, because it was being talked about that day at Blackburn. But good point about Richard he would have got it from Soul Bowl as well, and may well have had it before anyone else! I don't know whether he ever played it, or if he did which side. Certainly don't remember him playing it, but he might have done at Parkers or somewhere.

Let's put a few of these comments to bed for once and for all eh Nev? -The first copies surfaced as far as I can tell in the mid 90s, Butch and myself had it back then I am sure, I got it from Soul Bowl for £300 at a Victoria Record fair whenever they were - about 95/96 I think. -"Don't be so jive" does well on the dance floors whenever I've played it, works every time and was popular at places like Letchworth here some years ago now. Still get requests for it now and it's certainly great enough to play still. The shine hasn't gone off it. The flip side of Sag War Fare was played first at crossover venues in the 90s, but sad to say it wasn't as popular as it should have been. It doesn't really work with the dance floor, I am sorry to say. Marco and Butch were the first to play "Don't be so jive" so credit to them. Right, feel better now for putting that right.

Hi Ted, I've noticed that with loads of records that have been around years, they are STILL popular on the floor. Elipsis, Joseph Webster are other examples of records that perpetually fill the dance floor….slower records too have always had their place….Ironically I can still remember when Searling cleared the floor at the Casino with Judy Freeman one night..,..

Interesting, thanks. See you soon.